Replies

1. 
   stpatrick | Oct 25, 2009 03:37am | #1

    . . . . okay, guess I will have to learn patience . . . . but if anyone wants to chime in, it will be appreciated.  Patrick

1. 
   roc | Oct 25, 2009 04:18am | #3

   Heck I will talk to you. Some body that is more knowledgeable will eventually be along.Here are some things that occurred to me as I read your post :
   • Semigloss finish; you may want to use gloss in the future and nock the gloss back to semigloss after your last coat has hardened by using 0000 steel wool and a little wax.• Semigloss finish has stuff in it ( the semi in semigloss ) that needs to be constantly stirred up and very thoroughly stirred up to start each coat so that each coat is the same and not spotty. Spotty meaning more semigloss/cloudy here more glossy there.• Surface blemishes; maybe you already do this but I would prepare the surface with planes and scrapers rather than power tools and sand paper. Properly sharpened and polished plane blades produce a nearly shiny surface on the wood.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

1. 
   stpatrick | Oct 25, 2009 05:08am | #5

   Roc, thank you.  I used cabinet scapers after the ROS.  I started with a #5 1/2 but my planing skills are early on the learning curve . . . and my layout of the boards for the panels were glued up based on color and grain matching . . . .but not grain direction re planing direction. . . . so i have a few oops where there is tearout on one side of the glue up line.  NEXT time i will also consider orienting them so i can plane them once glued up . . . .

   re the semi, i stirred it well before starting but, in retrospect, i went slower on the earlier coats without mid-application stirring . . . so maybe that is why it had more sheen, and maybe that means i have more semi in the half used can, thus a larger concentration in the remaining part of the can, and thus a duller finish . . . . on the 3rd coat . . . . .  I have a can of gloss too, but can i apply that over the existing semi??

    

   inherent in the above is my assumption that the semi particles sink to the bottom if not kept in suspension via stirring . . . . rather than vice versa . . . .

    

   roc, gotta love Colorado. I went to college at Regis in Denver . . . .but that was last century.  thanks again. patrick

   Edited 10/24/2009 10:10 pm by stpatrick

1. 
   roc | Oct 25, 2009 07:18am | #10

   >NEXT time i will also consider orienting them so i can plane them once glued up<Well sounds like you know your stuff. Some, my self included, feel lay out the grain according to how it looks best and then use a finish plane and blade that can handle reversed grain. Often one board can have grain going both ways any way. You can plane across the grain to take any thickness down.See threads here about steeper angle planes and high quality sharpening techniques.>assumption that the semi particles sink to the bottom<You are correct saaa. I just looked it up in Bob Flexner's relatively new book Understanding Wood Finishing. He says it is usually silica and settles to the bottom. Where would an arm chair wood worker ( me ) be without his home library.>gotta love Colorado.<I sure do. Only draw back I suppose is lower pay here. Employers seem to think their employees should take a hit for the privilege of living here.>gloss too, but can i apply that over the existing semi??<Sure as long as you don't wait too long otherwise the previous coat may not tie to the new coat. Still the stuff you don't like is underneath.I wonder if scraping down and then using gloss is the way to go ? Or the semi better agitated. Looks like you have lots of friends now.scuuusme . . . while I . . . disappearrrrrr . . . Frank Sinatra in the song Angle EyesrocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )Edited 10/25/2009 12:24 am by roc <!-- ROC2013 -->Edited 10/25/2009 12:27 am by roc <!-- ROC2013 -->

   Edited 10/25/2009 12:28 am by roc

2. 
   Gretchen | Oct 25, 2009 04:14am | #2

   Since you mention "even pressure when wiping it off" I guess this is a wiping varnish. You need many more coats to get a sufficient build of finish, and you need to be sure that the finish is well stirred in order to keep the flattening agents in suspension.

   Gretchen
1. 
   stpatrick | Oct 25, 2009 04:56am | #4

   Gretchen, it is an oil and urethane mix, and General recommends 3 coats.  I have previously used on the bath vanity Bartleys gel wiping varnish and this seems to have a little more build.  So, i guess i will try a 4th top coat . . . .

    

   Thank you for your thoughts, patrick

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Oct 25, 2009 05:23am | #6

   Gretchen, it is an oil and urethane mix, and General recommends 3 coats

   You would think that when you read some of the General Information data , but all the information I have says it is NOT, rather it is a varnish MADE FROM oil and urethane resin.  Whoever wrote the data sheet for the Arm-R-Seal is very confused about the product, with much of the data sheet written as if for a stain, not a top coat.  

   As a wiping varnish, you don't wipe off the same way that you would wipe of a mixture of oil/varnish.  You wipe on thin, even coatings, sufficient to visibly dampen the surface.  Then you don't wipe off anything.  It is a fairly full bodied wiping varnish, but even so three coats are likely to be equivalent to one full coat of brushed on varnish.  That means that three or more coats could well be in order to build a sheen.  Wiping off each coat, as if it were an oil/varnish mix, will never build anything more than a satin sheen.   

   Edited 10/24/2009 10:24 pm ET by SteveSchoene

1. 
   stpatrick | Oct 25, 2009 06:20am | #8

   Steve, I am always amazed at the breathe of your knowledge.  I applied it with a t-shirt rag, wiped it on and wiped over it in long gentle strokes to even it out , but not to rub it in like i did with the gel varnish.

   If, in fact, it is essentially a wiping varnish then i guess a few more coats are in order???

    

   the label on the can of sealer, seal-a-cell, reads as though it is a stain but it is clear.

   Thank you for the input. patrick

3. 
   lwj2 | Oct 25, 2009 05:42am | #7

   St. Patrick:

   I haven't used that particular finish, but have used a lot of wiped oil finishes.

   I've found I usually need four to six coats to build depth.

   Remember to allow adequate time for your coats to dry completely before scuff-sanding. 280 should work fine, what you're doing is barely scuffing the surface to let your next coat adhere properly.

   Good luck,

    

   Leon
   
1. 
   stpatrick | Oct 25, 2009 06:32am | #9

   Leon, seems like a few more coats are in the plan, but i am still perplexed as to why it looked so good after 2 coats, but then not so great aafter the 3rd.  My sanding was just the surface scruffing to take off any nibs, etc, but not to really remove any amount of material.

1. 
   lwj2 | Oct 25, 2009 04:06pm | #11

   I'm at a loss on that one myself.So far the "solids at the bottom of the can" theory seems about all to go with, I'm not much help because I work from formulae that don't include them. (Simple I am, yep, you betcha, Sven.)About all I can suggest is to try another can of that finish that has a different lot number and see what happens. Sorry I'd not thought of that earlier.
   Leon