Replies

1. 
   woodensplinter | Feb 17, 2006 06:16pm | #1

   Assuming you're talking about the "top" of the box, you have two choices:  rabbet the end at the same depth as your dado and make the top piece wider to cover the groove; miter the corners.

2. 
   MikeHennessy | Feb 17, 2006 07:43pm | #2

   What I have done is to fill the dados where they show with small square pins. They almost disappear if they are carefully fitted. Don't know how this was done back when these boxes were actually used for selling candles, but I wouldn't be surprised if the dado wasn't simply left showing. (Hey, it was about the candles, not the box!) If you really want to be accurate, check out some antique stores.

   Mike Hennessy
   Pittsburgh, PA

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Feb 18, 2006 03:39am | #8

   Mike,

   Thanks.  I have a feeling you have identified the typical way this was done.   If I dovetail the corners, then the groove will show one way or the other, depending on where the pins and tails are.  Unless I do a stopped groove.

   Alan - planesaw

   Edited 2/17/2006 8:44 pm ET by Planesaw

1. 
   BenM | Feb 23, 2006 03:18pm | #16

   If you do half (lapped) dovetails then you can cut the groove in all the pieces and it won't show when assembled.  Just make sure the groove goes through the center of one of the dovetails.

3. 
   splintergroupie | Feb 17, 2006 08:11pm | #3

   Technically speaking, that's a GROOVE that the top slides into. Rabbet the joint on the long sides of the candlebox to receive the end pieces to the same depth as your groove. You can miter the corners, but that unprotected sharp point on the end that the top slides into is vulnerable.

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Feb 18, 2006 03:17am | #5

   Hadn't thought about the difference between a groove and a dado.  Is there a difference?  Dado across the grain?  Groove with the grain?

   Alan - planesaw

1. 
   splintergroupie | Feb 18, 2006 03:29am | #7

   Yes.

4. 
   John_D | Feb 18, 2006 01:10am | #4

   I think you'll need a stopped groove for the sides for sure.  But since it's all the way to the end on the other side (where the lid slides in), it's not so hard.

   Your harder challenge is the closed end, which will need a groove.  If you're dovetailing the box, it'll need to be a full stopped groove.  If the end grain of the sides is showing fully, and the closed end is just butted or rabbetted in, then its groove can be through.

   Why do you want to avoid a stopped groove?  I know on bigger pieces the thought of dropping a heavy board onto a spinning dado stack has little appeal, but the operation seems safer on the router.

   My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
1. 
   alanplanesaw | Feb 18, 2006 03:19am | #6

   John,

   I don't particularly want to avoid a stopped groove.  Just wondering if there is a traditional way of doing it.  

   In making a candle box, was there a traditional way that most people made them, or 57 ways?

   Thanks,

   Alan - planesaw

5. 
   joinerswork | Feb 19, 2006 08:12pm | #9

   Plane,

   I replied to your Q in another area of the forum about plans.

   The boxes I make for Old Salem have a molded edge on the sides above the groove for the lid.  The molding is stuck (worked on the edge, not applied), and is mitered at the corners.  I run the miter down to the first dovetail pin, which means that the corners of the box are dovetailed together up to the groove, and mitered together from the groove up thru the molding.  This is a nice solution to the problem of the grooves showing, but it is a finicky job to get the length of the miters just right so they close up just as the dovetails are clamped tight.

   The end of the box that the lid slides from is narrower than the other three sides, and I attach a mitered piece of the same molding to the lid to finish the trim around the sides, and this acts as a "handle" with which to slide the lid.

   Now, the old box that is in Old Salem's collection, has a "mason's miter" at the corners.  That is, the corners are conventionally dovetailed, and the molding is carved into the corner so it appears to be mitered.  The grooves are not stopped, or even plugged, if I remember correctly, but show on the ends of the box.  Easy enough to plug them as has been suggested, with matching end grain  pins, whittled to be a wedge fit.

   A somewhat dark photo of the box may be seen at :

   http://www.davidraypine.com/portfolio.phpspgmGal=Other&spgmPic=1&spgmFilters=#pic

   Hope this helps.

   Ray Pine

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Feb 20, 2006 04:44am | #10

   Ray,

   Having looked at your website, I am way amateur compared to your experience and your work.  But, you give me something to shoot for.

   I'll have to cut some boards to practice dovetailing and mitering the way you have described.  I think I understand it as you have described.  I am sure I'll realize how much I don't know once I start trying.

   Thanks for the info and and the description.

   Alan - planesaw

1. 
   joinerswork | Feb 20, 2006 04:04pm | #11

   Alan,

   A couple of extra pcs to set-up with, is a very good idea.  When setting up to cut the miters, using the gauged layout line from the dovetails gives you something to set up to, though the way you waste out between the pins will have an effect on how tightly things go together, and therefore, which side of the line you need to cut to.  Trial and error, in other words.

   Good luck on your project,

   Ray Pine

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Feb 20, 2006 05:03pm | #12

   Joinerwork,

   Thanks for added info.  Yeah, I have the trial and error thing down real good.

   Alan - planesaw

6. 
   Dave45 | Feb 20, 2006 05:44pm | #13

   Something like this?

   The sliding top is a piece of 1/4" maple ply and the sides are 1/2" oak.  I decide how long the sides need to be and use a piece of wood a little longer than that total.  A couple of passes on the saw gives me the dado, then I cut the pieces to length.  (I just mitered the ends, but they could be dovetailed too.)

   After I've cut the sides to length, I rip away the dado on the "short" side and assemble the box.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/20/2006 9:56 am by Dave45

   
1. 
   alanplanesaw | Feb 21, 2006 06:38am | #14

   Dave,

   You said you mitered the ends.  Did you use glue only, or what else did you use to "attach" them to each other?

   What kind of chisels do you have in the box?  I like the idea of the "candle box" for the chisels.

   Alan - planesaw

1. 
   Dave45 | Feb 21, 2006 07:05am | #15

   I used glue and a few pins from my 23 ga micropinner. 

   That box is new (I just made it a couple of weeks ago.) and it holds my Buck Bros. chisels.  Another similar box was made in '88 and stores my Stanley "beater" chisels.  I also have a sliding top box (made in the mid-80's) for my 1/4" drive sockets, ratchet, etc.

   Boxes like that are pretty easy to make and can be cobbled up pretty quickly.  The one in the picture took about an hour.