How do I get industrial paint smoothenss and texture
Hi all,
I’m new here and to woodworking. I’ve read a plethora of online resources as well as the book Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner but still cannot find a solution.
PROBLEM:
I have painted a baby changing table, but the problem is that when poop from the little one gets on the table it is not easy to wipe because the surface texture is not super smooth and some seems to get stuck on the contours of the surface (it also doesn’t help that I’ve painted it white so it really shows).
EXPECTED/DESIRED RESULT
If this accident were to occur on my other furniture, even IKEA ones, it would wipe off much easier because the surface is smoother.
The smoothest surface I’ve seen is on some ~1.5″ diameter colored wood balls for kids toys. If anything got on the balls, it would take only one wipe to remove it. If I recall correctly, the paint stuck well to the ball’s surface and appeared to be almost impossible to take off, yet when the paint did chip off it seemed brittle.
WHAT I HAVE TRIED
What I have tried so far (wood is beech multiplex plates, and also raw beech) on various samples:
1) Sanded the surface until 240 grit.
2) Wet the surface to raise the grain, waited until it dried, and lightly sanded with 600 grit. Repeated process if necessary until surface felt super smooth to the touch.
3) Primed surface (also tried a sample without prime, also tried with priming 2 times with very thin coats).
4) Painted the surface with paint that seems to have some polyurethane mixed in it (tried single coat, multiple thin coats, etc). Tried painting with brush, with roller, with sponge brush, etc.
5) Lightly sanded last painted surface with 600 grit.
Yet, I’m not getting the result I expect, which is similar to those wood balls.
What finish are the manufacturers of these balls using or how are they applying it (spray?, but would that make a difference), or what am I missing in my process/technique, or is both lack of technique and product?
WHAT I SUSPECT
I suspect that perhaps the pores of the wood, regardless of how fine I sand, are the cause for the uneven texture, so maybe I need apply a layer of woodfiller before priming/painting. However, before going down the rabbit hole again and trying 100 different samples, I’m hoping someone with more experience can tell me what I’m missing.
Thank you in advance,
Henry
Replies
You don't need to sand so much before painting. Its not going to make a difference.
Industrial finishes are always sprayed. Its easier to get it very smooth.
Most latex is more difficult to get a smooth, hard finish. It stays softer and flexible. Oil is usually better.
Some new modified latex paints are much better. Ben Moore's Advance gives a hard smooth finish.
After you've primed and painted one coat, lightly sand. This is where sanding will show on the finished product, not on the raw wood. Sanding raw wood to 600 grit before painting is just wasting time. In between coats will help.
Build layers until you get the finish you want.
Hi John, thanks for the reply.
If I understood you correctly:
1) My pre-painting routine, although time-wasting, is OK. This also means that my suspicion about filling the pores is also wrong (good to know so I don't waste time doing it).
2) I should be using oil-based paint (even better if I can spray it) if I want that hard smooth finish.
Question:
What grit should I be sanding the paint?
Also, what is the advantage of sanding between paint coats, especially since the coats will just be covered by the next coat, instead of just sanding the final coat?
Thanks.
Assuming that your wood is smooth when the paint goes on, there are a couple of reasons paint dries rough. Most common is brush marks. The paint dries so fast, the brush marks are still in there. Oils level more before th ey dry, giving a smoother finish -- usually. The latex Advance paint I mentioned above also levels vey well before drying, leaving a smoother finish.
If paint dries too slowly you get dust and other airborne detritus drying on the surface.
Sanding in between coats makes a really smooth surface for the next coat. Putting another coat on something uneven just makes a more uneven surface. Sand only what needs sanding. If it feels dead smooth, stop. 400 or 600 grit should be good.
Paints are made for different things. Exterior paint needs to expand and contract in great heat or cold. For that reason they are pretty soft. You can press a thumbnail into year old exterior paint. That would be a horrible choice for indoor bookshelves.
Trying to scrub poo off of regular latex paint is difficult, because it's also soft. But putting better paint on top of what you have is a little problematic. Pick up either the Advance paint or oil based Impervo.
I'll echo what a few others have said, and that is spraying is the way to go. That having been said, make sure it's a paint that will perform well when sprayed. Sherwin Williams has a Pro Classic that is an Interior Acrylic-Alkyd. This will provide a finish that is more durable than standard latex.
Also, keep in mind most commercial paint applications (pro cabinet shops, IKEA, etc.) are using a catalyzed finish applied in a booth. These types of finishes aren't usually available to the average consumer. It's hard to match the durability of these with off the shelf paints.
Hey all,
thanks again for the helpful responses.
Also good to know the limitations of products sold to average consumers.
Best regards,
Hey all,
so I went to my local hardware store (like Lowes in USA) and they said that oil based paints are no longer sold (not sure if it's a legal requirement to reduce pollution or what), additionally the recommended brands mentioned are not sold here.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how my options?
Is there perhaps something I can mix water-based paints to make the surface harder? Or can I apply some final coat of something over the paint that would create a harder/smoother surface?
Thank you.
Ask for a waterborne alkyd paint. Traditional aloud paints were oil based. Water based paints were latex. The new paints by Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams mentioned above are water based alkyds. They probably have different brands and names where you are.
Or you could wet-sand the dry paint. Use 1000 grit wet/dry paper then 1500. That'll remove dirt and hopefully leave you with a smooth finish.
Mikaol
It is much harder to get a super-smooth finish with the water based finishes.
Spraying is still best, but there is definitely a knack to it!
Practice makes perfect...
If I need a smooth paint finish, I will sand the wood to 180, then prime with a thinned primer and sand to 240 once dry.
If it is smooth enough after that I spray two topcoats. On hot days, I use a drying retardant for the last coat, which really does allow for perfection as the paint needs to sag under it's own weight and spread out. Spraying tends to cause it to dry too fast.
Leave it to set afterwards.
I do prefer oil-based paints for a truly shiny finish as they give far better results with much less efforts. Again, spraying is the way to go.
Can you get paint in a spray can? Usually marketed for metal or cars, this will give a glass-like finish.
Either vehicle or marine paints might give you the performance you seek. In marine, International Brightside is a single part urethane modified solvent based paint that levels very well, is of course durable when wet and sandable. You can mail order from Defender Industries. Or go to Jamestown Distributors and use their house brand Total Boat paint. I don't know if they have pints. You might also try spray cans of appliance paint. I used that for some panels in my sailboat and they came out looking like melamine board.
Thank you for all the different ideas.
Buying spray equipment is not an option for me at this point and
Oil paint is unfortunately not an available in any fom.
Yes, I did see paint in aerosol spray cans and they were water based... although not sure if alkyd resin, as John suggested. I'll go back tomorrow and buy one with alkyd is thye have it.
And, I also saw aerosol cans marketed as paint for cars or metals but I just walked past that section. I will go back and also buy this and give it a try.
I'll try Mikaol idea as last step and see how far that gets me.
thanks again everyone
You may want to look into the latex paint additive Floetrol to help with paint leveling and reducing brush marks.
You can get it at the box hardware stores or a paint store like Sherwin Williams.
Henry, having experience with changing diapers and with painting/finishing of high-end furniture, let me suggest that you put a towel cover on the changing station. That would be much easier to clean and keep clean.
All the advice from experienced painters (below) is correct, but you see how difficult it is to achieve a hard smooth finish as a homeowner/woodworker. It is much easier to prevent the problem in the first place.
If all else fails, you might look up a local company that has a spray finishing booth, bring the changing station to them, and pay them to apply the hard smooth "poop resistant" enamel paint finish you want. That would work, but a few extra towels are much less expensive ... and can be washed clean.
Hey all,
I took all of the advices noted previously and experimented based on those ideas. I wanted to share the outcome and also ask a few more questions.
I found oil based paint finally. It's amazing -- it lays level even when surface underneath is not. However, the paint is for outdoors (this is the only oil based paint I found after visiting 3 different home improvement stores).
I wet sanded the paint at 1200 grit (as per Mikaol suggestion) after 48 hours and it looks great (see pic), but I admit that the paint had not cured as hard as I expected (and my layers were not thick). I could press my fingernail in it and leave an impression. Over the same time period I have the feeling that water-based paint actually cures harder.
Is the paint still soft because it is for outdoors use, or is it because I didn't give it enough time to cure (does oil based paint simply take longer than water based to cure but when it does cure it cures harder?)?
I also tried aerosol spray (I think it was lacquer and not pre catalyzed...if someone knows how I can differentiate please let me know). I have to admit -- I suck at it. The surface became full of craters and even sanding wouldn't fix it.
Topcoat the paint finish with a 3 to 4 coats of poly, sanding between coats with progressively finer sand paper. I would start with 220g and work up to 600g. You also could buff out the final finish and it would be as smooth as a babies bottom. I have done this with painted tables that will see alot of use and it has worked out well.
Oil based paint can still be had in most locals at a paint store. Lowes and HD didn't sell enough to justify stocking it. Most people think it is too difficult to clean and don't like the smell.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled