Replies

1. 
   Kevin | Sep 08, 2005 09:50pm | #1

   With Cherry you need to use either a washcoat or tint the clear. A straight wipe stain, regardless of what type, is going to produce a blotchiness on Cherry, Maple, Fir and several other species of wood. The way round it is to find a way to prevent the stain from soaking into the wood. You want it to stay as close to the surface as you can. You still wipe it. But, you have to find a way to prevent it from soaking in very far.

   Most commonly used method is to apply a "washcoat" before applying a wipe stain.

   Plug "washcoat" into the search function above and you'll find lots and lots of past discussions of the various types of washcoats, as well as some other methods which end up serving the same function. Cherry is almost always the wood that everyone complains about blotchiness with. So, I'm sure you'll find that most of the comments will be applicable to your situation. If you still have questions, post them here and we'll try to tackle them.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 12, 2005 07:33pm | #15

   First off.. I AM NOT a good finisher.. I hate it but have to..I use a Lacquer wash coat.. Wiped on... Sand and then finish off with rottonstone for a semi-gloss finish.. sometimes..Then work out what I'll mess up next.. Sometimes I do OK?

2. 
   miltonburl | Sep 16, 2005 04:30pm | #16

   Sorry it took so long to respond back.  I'll be trying these tips this weekend and post the results.  I too like the natural boltchiness variations in cherry but the client doesn't.   Thanks to all others.   Miltonburl

2. 
   doug | Sep 08, 2005 10:41pm | #2

   While not a solution to the blotchiness that you see, to bring out the depth and character of cherry I like using Danish oil followed by blonde shellac.  For protection I follow that with a polyurethane clear coat.  This will really bring out the depth and richness of the wood, and I personally like the variation in color and blotchiness (curly figure) of cherry.  In my opinion, if the wood looks too perfect, it doesn't look real.   

3. 
   ChrisB | Sep 09, 2005 12:27am | #3

   You have your sequence wrong! Put down your seal coat of dewaxed shellac BEFORE you stain.

   Even better, make your seal coat into the "wash coat" the other posters are referring to. You do that by thinning your dewaxed shellac. If you are using Zinsser Dewaxed Shellac Seal Coat you thin it two parts shellac to thee parts alcohol per the instructions on the side of the can.

   Actually, in some applications I almost like using full strength Zinnser seal coat dewaxed shellac as my wash coat instead of thinning it out. The full strength stuff does reduce the stain absorption, but at the same time totally eliminates the lifeless splotching  you are experiencing.

   I have been working on some alder, another wood very prone to splotching. I found the full strength seal coat worked better as alder is already pretty dark, and I only wanted a hint of stain. I got the stain result I wanted, with no blotching.

   Chris

1. 
   jimmy | Sep 09, 2005 09:10pm | #5

   I've looked all over for the Zinser dewaxed seal coat, but can't find it.  Where do all find it?  thanks...

1. 
   ChrisB | Sep 09, 2005 10:47pm | #6

   Hi Jimmy,

   Just went down to the basement and grabbed the can. The actual title on the front of the can says "Zinsser Bulls Eye Seal Coat Universal Sanding Sealer".

   On the side in microscpic letters it says "Contents:Wax Free Shellac 2lb cut".

   I get mine at Ace Hardware.

2. 
   TXJon | Sep 10, 2005 01:51am | #7

   Home Depot has it, but if you ask for it they won't admit it.  Lowes also carries it, but I don't know whether or not they will own up to it.

1. 
   jimmy | Sep 10, 2005 04:51am | #8

   thanks.  Checked both big boxes...got a dull stare.  Even tried the last two decent lumber yards in our area.  Even came up dry at the local Woodcraft and the Zinser website.  Guess I'll have to keep making my own.  Thanks to all.  Jimmy. 

1. 
   philip | Sep 10, 2005 06:02am | #9

   Jimmy, maybe they sent it all to New Zealand! I came across this Zinsser dewaxed shellac sealer by accident here and am now addicted to it-it really is good, even when it is doing something you can't see. I always use it under sprayed precatlac. It's good under danish oil. It's good on its own like inside drawers,rubbed with steel wool.
   Keep looking-why not contact the makers?Philip Marcou

2. 
   TXJon | Sep 10, 2005 04:51pm | #10

   You get the same dull stare here too, but they really do have it.  I think it must be part of the special training they get, you know "You can do it, we can help(!?)"

3. 
   wrudiger | Sep 11, 2005 09:33am | #11

   Our HD doesn't carry it, but the corner hardware store stocks quarts.  When I needed a lot for the kitchen cabs they special ordered a gallon.  Anyone who stocks any of the other Zinzer products should be able to order it. 

   I agree with the other poster - I'm getting adicted to it too.  I'm doing natural Maple and using one coat of the shellac (full strength) under 2 coats water-based "pre-cat lacquer".  The shellac really brings out the character of the maple and gives it a touch of warmth you won't get with the WB finishes alone.

4. 
   Kevin | Sep 12, 2005 01:37am | #12

   water-based "pre-cat lacquer". 

   Who manufactors that? I've never heard of a water-based precat.

5. 
   wrudiger | Sep 12, 2005 07:24am | #13

   Slight mistake; it's actually called "Pre-Catalyzed Waterborne Conversion Varnish" from Target Coatings.

   I put it in quotes 'cause based on some of the stuff I've read they call waterborne finishes by names that equate their performance to conventional finishes.  Who knows, it may actually have the chemical properties of a pre-cat varnish.  All I know is it's good stuff, stinks but only for a an hour or so (vs. days to weeks), and appears to have good wear characteristics (though I only have 8 months of experience with it so far).

   Jeff Jewett recommended it to me and sells it:

   http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/targetcoatings.htm

6. 
   Kevin | Sep 12, 2005 07:50am | #14

   Interesting... It's a poly finish.  Thanks for the info.

4. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 09, 2005 05:37am | #4

   Partially sealing the wood with a washcoat will eliminate the blotching. But then the color will likely come out a few shades lighter (or more) than normal.  To bring the color back to full strength, you can add a little of the stain to some thinned lacquer and spray that over the stain after it's been sealed.  But you can't add oil-base stain to water-base poly. You'll either need to use solvent lacquer or get some water-reducible stain or dye to add to your poly.

   Here's some info on making/using a washcoat - http://www.furniturefinishwizard.com/washcoatsolids.htm

   Paul
   http://www.finishwiz.com