Does anybody have first hand experience with Festool powertools? I know they are pricey, but how well are they built? I rarely have seen reviews of these tools, but I have been looking at the Domino tool that is about to hit the market.
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Replies
Festool has been much discussed around here. I would suggest you first do a search through past threads.
If you're not sure how, let me know.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Festool tools are hands down worth every penny you pay for them. I have used the domino and the R.O. sanders the jig saws and the routers. They are great, they have great dust extraction. They are just great tools, I hope to be able to afford them to outfit my shop here soon.
http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
I purchased the smaller portable saw in October to use on a corner cupboard project. I was able to lay the sheet goods down on a panel of styrofoam, layout the cut lines, and cut to final dimension without tearout. Very impressive. Since then I have used it to solve two other problems for which other approaches would have been very difficult. I really like the performance and the set of features on this tool.
Good luck, Tom.
Everyone run for cover.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
What is that noise???....................nevermind it's just the helicopters.
Jeff
Personally I think they are for tool snobs who are more into tools and think only the best will work for them....
...oh wait, wrong thread!!
OK, OK, Just kidding everyone; just riding along the River's recent crest!!
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Please....... not again . The flood waters haven't subsided from the last heavy rain. :)
Paul
Yes, yes... but how do they compare with the EZ system???!!![<click> Run for it....]Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Thanks Glaucon, I was just thinking about...(uh no!).......................INCOMING!
Jeff
You guys, I think you have pounced on an innocent victim. Why don't you explain your antics? I must say, I have chuckled a bit, my self.
Personally I like to use my EZ guide to cut up my worthless Festool products. I find it gives a nice crisp line when I run my saw over those Systainers.
Then I'll use my LN planes and chisels to show that EZ guy what a real tool is.
Tongue firmly in cheek, people...
To the OP, sorry for the hijack...no experience with Festool; they obviously inflame great passion one way or the other.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
very good tools, I own several of them, they are addictive, once you buy one you start to seriously consider them any time you are going to buy a new tool...
go to a woodcraft, they are stocking dealers and will let you try them out...
if you want to buy one to start i would suggest the RO sander and the vac...after you use those a while be carefull, the next thing you know you will have enough of those plastic systainers laying around that you can build a fort out of them...
the only problem i have ever had with mine was on a RO sander, the foam pad came apart right after I bought it...I took it back and they replaced it with no questions asked....
Very well actually. Most that I own easily exceed other top tools I have owned from the traditional sources. What I find interesting is the way these premium brands seem to get treated in many of the reviews I have seen (Festool, Fein or similar high quality makes). The surveyor IMHO usually finds what I would consider to be a very minor nit as a pre-text to disqualify it as worthwhile contender (the subtext seeming to be for this amount of $$ it should make espresso as well).
No experience to date with the Domino, I am on the fence with this one so far.
My local Woodcraft store is staffed with some solid, knowledgable woodworkers and they all state Festool makes excellent machines. Several of them rate it as true industrial quality very much suitable for daily, continuous use.
But one point little discussed here is the firm price that Festool demands of its dealers in selling each machine. The US was peculiar in world trade in that it had Fair Trade Laws which allowed manfucatuirers to dictate pricing. All the fair trade laws disappeared in the US by the mid 70's so how does Festool continue as though the law still exists? As a market driven economy, the dealer should be able to sell merchandise at the price it wants to. I suspect Steel City tried to do the same thing by picking retailers to sell their machines, but I suspect their pricing strategy is slowly eroding away. When will a gutsy retailer make the move?
ETG,
You are right that Festool seems to dictate prices to retailers somehow - but every now and then there is an exception.
For example, Tilgear in Britain are currently offering the festool 55mm circular saw with a good chunk off the normal price + a "free" 1400mm guide bar. Their smaller router is also being offered at a discounted price.
If one goes to the various trade shows, often held in the premises of the larger WW retailers in the UK, bargains can be had there. Some years ago now I bought a Festool 150mm RO, their delta sander and a CT22 sucker for 20% less than the usual retail price. I also squeezed 200 sanding discs/triangles out of them for "free", along with an extra systainer to put them in.
But normally, the prices do look fixed in some way and discounting is rare.
There was a previous thread that described Festool's ability to control price uniformity and the current laws that allow this.
I can't seem to locate it.
Rich
Thread re: resale price maintenance legality:
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=33813.1
Samson,
Thanks.
Isn't the law wonderful?
I purchased my first Festool about 5 years ago and followed by several since then. My experiences with the tools are summed up as:
Hope this helps.
BTW - welcome to Knots and don't pay attention to those in the peanut gallery. They often provide snide comments to legitimate questions particularly concerning this topic.
Steve
Steve,
On the RO sanders: the middle hole in the pad/sanding disc is apparently the key. Air is blown OUT of this hole by the integralfan, which helps to force the dust towards the other 8 holes. Just one example of clever Festool engineering design and why the RO sanders do sem to get 99.9% of the dust when connected to the sucker.
Lataxe
If you are in Cincinnati (I don't know, maybe you just like the sound of it?), there are several dealers not far from you:
http://www.festoolusa.com/find_dealer_detail.aspx?state=OH
Why not make a call and go try out some tools? Sawing is believing.
-Andy
I am no longer in Cincy; I am in Daphne, AL. I know we have a Woodcraft store across the bay in Mobile. I will check for other dealers. So I gather that Festool has minimum Dealer pricing. Is that legal?
Edited 2/8/2007 10:05 pm ET by Cincinnati
Cincinnati,
I have been to the Woodcraft store you speak of in Mobile. They do carry plenty of the festool products. One word of caution, I tried to return some things there a while back and got a ton of grief from the manager and one of the owners. They tried to refuse me a refund on some things I wanted to return, because I had used them and they wouldn't be able to resell them. I politely reminded them that if I had prchased the items through the Woodcraft catalog, I would be given a prompt refund with no questions asked. Something to think about before you plop down a couple or few hundred bucks on something.
Now, having said that I feel the tools are first rate, and I don't think once you try them out you would want to return them, but I wanted to point out the Mobile store's policy before you go purchase. I think you would be better of buying it mail order and be assured a full, cheery refund in the event you don't like the tool.
Just my $.02
Lee
i said check them out at woodcraft, not buy them there...
I would definately buy them at mcfeely's over the web...no sales tax, and i think they still have free shipping....
also the best place for buying screws......
I’m getting ready to cancel my on-line membership, so I’ve decided to give what I have been given while being a part of this woodworking forum. FESTOOL IS JUNK! Only people who are unsure of their manhood/womanhood would buy such pretentious tools! Now let me have it one last time before I leave!
Oh yeah well I think anyone who dumps a commet like that and then runs away should question there manhood. Plus you provide abosolutly no opinion on the subject. So how's the real man.Ha,ha,haKaleo
http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
I haven’t run. I’ve still got plenty of manhood intact! I’ll be here day by day until my membership that I just canceled expires. Other than the fact they are extremely expensive, I don’t have an opinion on Festool. - So, in the spirit of what I’ve seen on this sight, I assume you want to call my mother bad names or accuse me of being a communist or something. Go ahead, let me have it!
IMHO, I don't believe Festool is junk, its just very pricey. I have never used one Festool in my life, simply because I can't afford to. Ok, maybe I can afford it, but when I can get by with a Ridgid, PC or other palm sander, I do. There is just so many things an individual needs to set up a shop.
I have installed the "Michael Fortune" theory in my shop. He has a 14" ridgid bandsaw that he has done mod's to and this thing cuts veneer beutifully. I buy the best tools I can afford and make mods to them to make them perform to the highest level they can.
Would I have a Festool in my shop if I could afford it, you bet. I would also have a MM16 instead of my Rikon 18" bandsaw.
With that being said, I always remember that things are a lot worse for other people on this earth. If folks can buy Festool and they can afford it, then maybe they have paid their dues and deserve the top of the line.
IMHO,
Jeff
Friend you’re missing the point. I know almost nothing about Festool and really don’t care. I was just trying to stir the pot and give everybody a reason to scalp me with the usual insults.
Steve,
Sorry, I forgot to insult and degrade you. I'll try better next time.
Jeff
Please, give me your best shot! My skin is thick. Perhaps you can refer to my mother or the size of my “you know what”.
Steveky,
Just so you know, you can stay long after your "membership" runs out. This section of the site is free. You don't need a membership to participate in Knots.
Lee
Why did you tell me this? - I was looking for a way out!
Steve,
It's easy. Just wait until someone starts a number of threads and posts an almost endless stream of negative, childish and demeaning messages, criticizing everyone here in a blanket fashion and the forum in general. Then call him on his behavior.
Then sit back and wait to be informed you are the problem.
Of course, you are doing a pretty good job with your "take" on Festool products. That might get you an official response. Tongue-in-cheek humor is generally not recognized for what it is by the authorities here.
Have fun!
I'm not going to call your mother. Or anything like that. The problem on this site is guys like you that come into a theard and make outragous statements but don't back them up. If you think that festool is junk, only because of the price. Then say that, don't come in and say stupid things like you manhood/womanhood is in question because ou use them. How childish is that.I suppose of along that lline of thought that all tools or anything in life that might seem to be expensive is junk to you? That's cool with me. just give valid reasons why you think there junk.Kaleo
http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
Ya gotta love it freedom of speech!!!
Yes I do love freedom of speech. I just know from my every day life that not too many people would have the guts to say to me in person what they feel free to say anonymously on the internet. Everyone is tough when they don’t have to stand-up and look you in the eye.
Yes, but I think you can at least make a case that communication via the internet is therefore more honest and truthful. If you're being a jerk, I can say so without fear of retribution -- physical or otherwise -- whereas in person, I might bite my tongue, in which case you will never know what I really think. Having said that, I do think there are some folks who like to stir the pot by flinging ungrounded insults.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I guess I come from the old school and believe when someone is being a jerk it is best to smile and ignore. Jerks have a strong tendency to self-destruct and I don’t have to have the satisfaction of seeing it happen.
Rule of thumb is: "Never argue with an idiot. Passerby's will wonder who the real idiot is."
You will be missed.
If you’re being sincere then I guess I owe you a thanks. Remember, for those of us who don’t have to make a buck at it, woodworking is all about using a simple creative process to find peace for a few hours, and hopefully build something that will put a smile on someone's face.
Of course I am sincere. I am an enthusiastic amateur and have never earned profit from woodworking, although sometimes have accepted a contribution in the form of payment for materials I have had to buy for a particular project commissioned. Yet, to be fair, I never earned a great deal in employment either, I got by and kept the wolf at bay like most folk.
I know I am lucky in that I find interest in most things and reading the thoughts of others, whether sincere or not, on this site can be quite stimulating. Here also is a place to build something to make people smile.
At the risk of hijacking this thread by getting it back on topic, here's my 2 cents:
I bought my first Festool around Thanksgiving - ROS and Vac. It was primarily based on wanting a setup that kept my shop cleaner, and on that basis, it scored a big home run with me. Due to temps in my unheated garage shop and finishing up some other projects I didn't get a chance to use the sander until Christmas day. I had an old salvaged piece of pine with dirt/grit/nailholes and wanted to clean it up for painting to use on a quick project. So I hooked everything up then realized - Oops, if I do this I'm going to have to change clothes again before going over to the relatives for Christmas dinner. But then I figured - go for it - let's see how dustless this thing really is. I slapped on a 100g disk and dove in. The sander really made quick work of making this nasty piece of wood clean and not a speck of dust on my clothes. The only minor annoyances I noticed is with the electric and vac hookups at the sander. With all the praise folks give them for being very well engineered tools, I was sort of surprised that they didn't do a better job of designing the hookups to not allow unintentional unplugging. I had the electric come unplugged twice and have read others having the same problem with the vac connection. I would have thought some sort of twist-lock connection would have been a better idea than just the push-on connections, but it's a minor grievance. I'm sold.
If you build it he will come.
Staying on the original topic, I'll add my experience with Festool products. I have the 150 RO sander, best sander I have ever used and I have tried a lot. I have the barrel handle jigsaw, very good tool, but I could have gotten away with the new Bosch. I got the 1000 router and jigs as a present and I don't think their routers are worth the money. I have the 61/4" plunge saw and rails and it is miraculous how it works. Every tool they make is not commercial but industrial and you have to decide if they are worth the money in usage. They are the best, but do you need the best if you use it 10 times a year. The Domino looks like quite a tool, but for $700 I would have to be making M&T joints for a living.
Terry
I've used a few of their bits of kit, in particulart a range of their routers and random orbital sanders.
The tools are excellent. Well built, smooth operating, ergonomically balanced, and their dust extraction/ vacuum gear that goes with the tools really works, and the tools run, and run, and run. They're expensive because they're of excellent quality.
However, the truth is that they're probably overkill for the average weekend woodworker. A DeWalt router will give fine service too, as will a PorterCable, or a Bosch, etc., and a good selection of other power tools, but they won't, on the whole, be as refined as the Festool offerings.
If money is tight, don't buy them. If you need reliable tools for business use they'll probably not let you down. If you just feel like buying them because you can, they'll probably give you all the performance you'll need.
The Domino tenon thing has been around for a couple of years already, so it's now all a bit old hat. It's a niche thing that'll do a an excellent job in the niche it's aimed at-- I'd guess the biscuit/face frame/ kitchen frame and panel door type of market, or something like that. It's not worth much to me in the furniture field I'm in as I can knock out tenons and mortises half a dozen different ways already, and unless I got into the niche I mentioned it'll remain as no more than a curiosity to me. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
I'll sound as reduntant as everyone else who owns one... THEY ARE THE BEST!
As a friend of mine once said "buy good machines and you won't be disappointed when you need them to come through." He has been right all along. I own about half thier line and I just can't believe how great they all work together. The Germans have figured they will make a great machine and sell just a few as opposed to make a ton of them and selling for cheap
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