Howdie ALL,
I’ve attached a couple of pics here. Spraying Lowe’s American traditions 100% acrylic interior semi gloss ultra while latex, cut with some floetrol.
Using a Wagner HVLP conversion gun powered by a pancake style air compressor. The gun came from www.gleempaint.com
Same needle and cap set up that came with the gun.
Just curious, is it possible to get a better or smoother finish spraying latex through this gun? Looks like I have a little bit of “orange peel”.
Any suggestions? These hollow core doors were pre-primed from the factory.
Thanks,
Chills
Replies
Dreadful finish!!! I would increase the amount of flotrol and see what happens. Check that the needle and cap are the size wagner recommends for latex.Then talk to their tech people.I find that latex always looks like stucco and avoid it.Another thought is post on Breaktime they have some good painters over there.
Latex paint is full of thickeners to reduce the likelyhood of drips and runs when applied by brush or roller. The thickeners make it difficult to spray without orange peel. You can buy colored waterborne paint which doesn't have thickeners in it -- that is, is intended for use with sprayers. Homestead Finishing (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/index.htm) and Compliant Spray Systems (http://www.compliantspraysystems.com/) are two sources.
Edited 7/22/2005 12:53 am ET by JAMIE_BUXTON
Welcome to the club, Chills. I've been spraying California acrylic satin with a DeVilbis conversion gun with similar results. I think your's looks worse than mine and I'm not showing you a picture of mine.
My conditions were awful, 90° heat, stifling humidity and direct sun. I don't think that helped, but I've had the same problem under great conditions and with a number of different brands. The acrylics just don't flow well, brush or spray. I've used them straight and with up to 20% water or Flowtrol. The crown molding I sprayed yesterday looked good when wet but has dried to the orange peel, I used it right out of the can. I seems that the acrylics skin too quickly and the under material doesn't meld. So far, it look's like a choice of brush marks or orange peel with these paints.
I've heard about latex retarding solvent but I haven't tried it yet. My crown molding has small dentin work, so brushing would be tedious. I'm kicking myself for being so stupid, again, and not going with oil. With doors, I find it much easier to roll what I can with a detail roller and tip it off with a brush, or just use a brush. There's too much trigger pulling for me on doors, not to mention, getting the material on evenly. I bet that pancake never stopped running, the lack of volume can degrade the atomization.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'll probably sand and try again, maybe tip off with a brush. I think I'll ask around about the solvent, I've had some of the same trouble with waterborne clears, too. Sorry, I don't have a good answer.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer, Have you tried the Fuhr acrylic paint? I don't know how closely they are related but the Fuhr acrylic varnish is a great finish. I'm a complete spraypainting novice and sprayed some cabinets with Fuhr 355 and....they.... were.... perfect. I was dumbfounded. Devilbiss FL3 gun with 1.8 tip.
Hey Polarsea1, I have not tried the Fuhr products. Did you use the EFA additive with the acrylic or the amber tint with the 355? On my current job, I'm matching some manufactured cabinets. The company wanted $865 for three pieces of crown, so, I thought I could do better. They didn't have the profile we wanted either. I don't have a Fuhr distributor here and color matching along with sheen is an issue. I'm using an older FL siphon gun but application isn't a problem. I see some manufacturers are making hybrid acrylics, Devoe for one. Obviously, there is a problem with the acrylics, judging by the various additives being offered. I've been trying different waterborne finishes for quite a few years now and I'm still waiting to be impressed. I know the molecular chemistry is complex with the acrylics, I don't know if the polymer chain interdiffusion affects the surface texture. If so, one brand may be significantly better than another. When the stores open this morning, I think I'll look for some retarder. This job should have been history today. I hope the $865 doesn't start looking like a bargain.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer, I shot it straight out of the can, no additives, no thinning. The 355 has a slight amber tint but not really noticeable unless compared alongside water clear finish. I ordered it from Jeff Jewitt's website. If you call, he or someone at his shop will answer your questions about color matching and sheen. FYI we have some older cabinets that were coated with Polycrylic ~6 years ago - intitially water clear but much yellowed now. The 355 is nowhere near that deep. Someone on Jeff's forum described it as near idiotproof - that's what sold me. ;~)
Latex never sprays as good as oil. If you really care use oil. If you have no choice. practice on scraps to find out how much you can thin it. I generally add 20% water and 10% Flotrol. That is way, way beyond the "recomended" amount of thinning but I've not had problems. This seems to be the point at wich the latex atomizes OK. Better than that is to use an airless pump. In fact I have thinned latex down as described above then sprayed thin coats using a small tip like a 411 or 413 and I get darn near oilbased quality with an airless. First I prime with tinted shellac then sand smooth with 320 grit and repeat.
Mike
The Lowes brand is not my favorite but I think you could get a better result by not only adding Floetrol but also Water. Depending on humidity and temperature between 5 and 10%. Also test spray on an old door first and due to your equipment (which is not ideal) use thin layers wet in wet until coverage is reached. If you have access to an airless sprayer 1 cross layer will due and you will get a perfect finish. But (!) some doors have a primer finish with this exact orange peel finish and you are not at fault at all?
If you have a possibility to test the viscosity of the paint follow the manufacturer's recommendation, for semi gloss you should be in the 250 GPL range.
Big Box paints OK BUT!
If you really serious about it go to a small local paint supplier the contractors use..
They KNOW their stuff! Usually...
I sprayed a buddys kitchen cabinet doors with latex and floetrol (no water for thinning) and used a $60 Wagner electric gun and the finish came out perfect. It looked to have a bit of an orange peel look when first applied but leveled out nicely. It came out better than I had hoped so better is possible. Maybe more floetrol as someone suggested. The temperature was around 70 so a hotter temp might dry quicker depending on your location and time of day, humidity etc. You can definitely get it to come out better with some tweaking.
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