Replies

1. 
   wrick2003 | Dec 17, 2002 03:25pm | #1

   i have preferred square drives since i tried them. it drives my coworkers nuts though, when they have to remove one, most regular carpenters don't carry a square bit. for awhile i had to make sure that i had extra tips for the jobsite. i agree they are easier to drive, and i like the square look. they weren't selling at my local lumber yard a couple of years ago, and i got about twenty pounds of misc sizes for cheap!

   oh oh cahnahdaaahhh!

2. 
   dwyates | Dec 17, 2002 03:30pm | #2

   Yes, sadly, you are misinformed. I live in Texas (look at a map), where square-drive screws are used in a number of applications - cabinets, furniture, decking, etc, etc. Why would you come to the conclusion that Canada has some sort of exclusive use of anything?

1. 
   user-274461 | Dec 17, 2002 08:51pm | #9

   Geez Don, that is a lot of attitude over a wood screw!  I was asking, not assuming.  Since I never see them on US programs and the fact that there are obscure adds for Robertson screws in your wood working magazines is proof they are not as ubiquitous as they are in Canada. That was my only point.  And by the way, I know where Texas is and the other 49 states as well.  Do you know how many states we have and where they are?  

1. 
   jeffn7 | Dec 17, 2002 09:04pm | #10

   Canada doesn't have states... provinces (10) and territories (3)

    

    

1. 
   user-274461 | Dec 17, 2002 09:18pm | #13

   Jeff,

   Yes, I know - it was a trick question.

2. 
   dwyates | Dec 17, 2002 11:02pm | #14

   No, not attitude, observation - when you say...

   Perhaps some of the more Northern states have been infected by this Canuck colloquialism but I am sure no one south of your Mason-Dixon line has ever been pleasured with this screw.

   ... that sounds a bit arrogant.

1. 
   user-274461 | Dec 18, 2002 12:17am | #15

   Apologies - that was certainly not my intent.  This whole discussion was mostly tongue in cheek.  It's just that during my travels to the US with the occasional visit to US hardware stores, I have never seen much evidence of Robertsons.  Just thought it was a bit curious given how effective they are compared to other types.

3. 
   JohnCabot | Dec 18, 2002 06:34am | #17

   I live a mile south of the Mason-Dixon line and agree with our Canadian friend that quality square drive screws are the one to use. I have used them from many years through the McFeely catalog. The very best , for me, are the screws with combination Philips and square drive and a drill bit-like point. I believe that are intended for cement board, but I find them very useful for hardwoods such as oak or maple,

   John Cabot

4. 
   Drewpeacock | Dec 18, 2002 06:43am | #18

    

   9437.18 in reply to 9437.10 

   Is that listing with or without the State of Confusion?

   gd&r

   Bob

1. 
   PlaneWood | Dec 18, 2002 05:23pm | #19

   I was using square drive screws 30 years ago in central Oklahoma.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood

2. 
   mitch | Dec 18, 2002 05:26pm | #20

   i had similar problems with square drives- either the screw snaps or strips out the thread in softer woods.  the square bit just doesn't cam out of the head like we're used to happening with phillips bits.  now i'm in the habit of adjusting the drill/driver's clutch setting to the particular situation- no more problems  (unless, of course, you really are getting bad screws)

   m

5. 
   cutter | Dec 18, 2002 08:19pm | #21

   Canada is a great place, and the largest French-speaking country in the world.

1. 
   JohnCabot | Dec 19, 2002 04:15am | #23

   France has 50 + milions inhabitants, the all of Canada, some of whom speak French has 31 millions. However is true that Montreal and Quebec are among the biggest French -speaking cities,......after Paris.

   John Cabot

3. 
   Alan | Dec 17, 2002 03:46pm | #3

   J...,

   Here in southern California, I first came across square-drive screws around 1978 or so when I had to remove several of them to make repairs on a sofa frame.  After much bad language and kicking the cat (I would never hurt a dog!) I went to the local home center and bought a set of square drives.  The screws and drives were in plentiful supply, even back then.  I've not had any trouble getting them.

   Their advantages were instantly obvious.  Whenever possible I continue to use them for the reasons you list.  However (seems there's always a qualifier) remembering my first encounter, if they are in a spot where they might have to be removed, and the piece is going out of my area or control, I don't use them.  As you point out, they just haven't caught on; people aren't likely to have the tool to remove them.  I'm afraid they'll try to kick me!

   So have a Molson, kick back, and feel smug about your superior fastening products, while pitying we poor, ignorant south of border types.  And take solace, spring is only seven or eight months away (about August, isn't it?  Only a month or so later than in upstate NY, from whence I recently moved.).

   Alan

1. 
   user-274461 | Dec 17, 2002 09:07pm | #11

    Alan,

   I am sure the cat is happiest of all with your new choice.

   With regard to the seasons - come on, you know spring is earlier than August here in Canada.  July 20 is the start of spring - August is the start of the fall season.  Yeah, it is cold but it keeps the muggers off the streets!  Everything has its advantages.  :)

4. 
   eximreb | Dec 17, 2002 04:30pm | #4

   To our very good friends to the north, my sad story with square drive screws is that I had too many snap off. When I'm busy I do not need that problem.Sad; because I'v purchased a lot of Canadian products & enjoyed them.Sincerely Bohiemian

1. 
   Drewpeacock | Dec 17, 2002 04:39pm | #5

   There are several knock off square drives out there.

   Particularly poor quality comming in from the far east.

   They are bad enough to make you stop using them.

   True Robertsons fit the drivers like a glove and you can actually load them on a drive and reach up or down with them attached.

   Incidently, I am finding it harder and harder to find screws of any type with decent metal in the shafts.

   Kudos to our big box stores for keeping prices and quality down and stiffling small business.

   Grumpy Bob

   Edited 12/17/2002 8:44:43 AM ET by 4333

   Edited 12/17/2002 10:36:53 PM ET by 4333

2. 
   user-274461 | Dec 17, 2002 09:13pm | #12

   Bo,

   I am very surprised you are having this problem with Robertson screws.  I have been using these for over 20 yrs and this has not happened to me even once that I can remember.  Even when I don't drill a pilot hole, I might split the wood but never shear off the screw.  That manufacturer must be using inferior metal because the design is certainly not inherently flawed.  Good luck with future work.

5. 
   rslatm | Dec 17, 2002 05:45pm | #6

   Square drive is old news.  I think the next big thing is going to be torx drive. At least in Industry. It will take ten years before Joe Hobby  finds out because the inventory of philips and square drive will have to be used up.
1. 
   ChiefsFa2 | Dec 17, 2002 06:28pm | #7

   I love square drives and only buy from McFeely...the run of the mill screws anymore at hardware stores are poorly made...tips torque out too easy, or the break under very little pressure.

   I agree that some square drives have terrible tolerance issues on tip size...if they are loose, they torque right out...Wine is God's way of capturing the sun.

1. 
   Biscardi | Dec 17, 2002 07:09pm | #8

   An old timer gave me several old coffee cans full of these large, tapered steel ,slott headed screws. I usually use other headed woodworking/ sheet rock screws.

   In general I like the newer ones. However, if you want holding power and shear resistance you cant beat these old, antideluvian screws. You must predrill and stripping the head is pretty easy.

   Frank

6. 
   robkutner | Dec 18, 2002 12:52am | #16

   I'm no longer a pro carpenter, but whenever I was installing paint grade trim, I always used square drive screws.  You're right; you can point your drill any which way and they'll stay attached, I get better holding power with them, and the screw hole requires much less spackle/putty than any other fastener except a brad.

   I just finished trimming out my own bathroom, and used these screws and a pin nailer.  I had some trouble finding the right length screws, though, and couldn't figure out why more dealers don't carry them.

   Rob

7. 
   ETG | Dec 18, 2002 09:03pm | #22

   The woodworking world used straight tip screws for years and were the not the first group to embrace the Phillips or Robertson type screws.  It was really the mass production/assembly line and in particular the automotive industry that drove the Phillips head screw usage.  The cross hatch in the Phillips head is designed to "cam out" when used in a power driver (air or electric) and saw great usage in assembling cars, washing machines, etc.  Even today you will not find Rpbertson screws in autos - Phillips and Torx but not Robertson (and many of the Chrysler, Ford and GM cars are assembled in Canada).  So yes there is a prejudice to Phillips head screws in the US and now it is slowly changing in areas like woodworking.

   As some folks have pointed out, they have had bad experiences with Robertson screws breaking prematurely.  That's testament to the high torque you can achieve with a Robertson drive and the very poor steel product used in many screws today.  Most steel mills don't melt steel for wood screws - reject product is normally used for wood screws (actully all non-ctitical, low torque applications) and nails.  I spent many hours in the steel industry applying reject stock to our plant's nail mill and for screw manufacturers.  You have to be very cautious who you buy fasterners from - McFeely lives on their reputation so they generally have good product.