Replies

1. 
   notDusty | Aug 19, 2004 05:15pm | #1

             molten ,

       You could contact the client and say something like : I just wanted to make sure I haven't missed you, as I have been in and out a lot this past week and I know you were anxious to get going on your project . You may then ask if there is a time frame the client needs you to be aware of for a completion date. This may help getting over the question of do they want you to bid on this or not, if they tell you they have found another shop , then you can move on so to speak .

             good luck                dusty

1. 
   jimmyk | Aug 20, 2004 12:52am | #7

   Many specifics were discussed in the meeting. He's a businessman looking for commercial work, not a homeowner looking for a special piece. He needed a display case and was going to send me the dimensions of what was to be displayed so I could begin working on a proposal for it. I typically try to work commercial pieces because frankly they pay more and there's a better interaction with the client...not as emotional.

   This has happened several times with other prospective clients however, we meet for 1 or 2 hours and discuss all the work they have for more in the future then that's the last I hear from them. Are they expecting me to call constantly and annoy them into sending me work? I know these people are busy, so how much calling from me is too much?

   I'd like to do some small work for residential to fill the blanks in from my lacking commercial work, but I don't know how to market to the type of homeowners I want to work for (wealthy and likes quality).

2. 
   mudman | Aug 19, 2004 06:24pm | #2

   Molten,

   I call back in a week or or two. If they work they will only have weekends to think about your offer. One mistake it sounds like you made is not getting the measurements while you were there. I spend little time looking over my portfolio and quickly get them talking about what they want. Remember people like to talk about their desires more than they want to hear about our experience and skill. I walk over to the area with them and have blue painters tape and a tape measure with me. Before I leave there is a tape-marked outline of the footprint and "wallprint" of the potential piece. I then take several pics of the area. By the time I leave I know (more importaintly they know) what they want. I then make a bid and notify them when it is ready, I never discuss price over the phone. I need to see their face so know if they are OK with the offer.

   Call them, ask about their kids, dog, new plasma TV, Porshe or whatever you noticed they were interested in. Shoot the breeze (mostly listening). I am a very talkative person by nature, so this is easy for me. If they are at all interested in your services THEY will bring up the subject. They know why you called!! If they dont in a couple of minutes ask if they got to the measurements yet, and offer to come over and help them take the measurements and bring some trim and magazines to discuss design elements. If they are not interested ask why so you can learn from it.

   Mike

   please excuse my spelling.
1. 
   BG | Aug 19, 2004 07:02pm | #3

   Molton,

   This may sound like a bit of overkill..but its not.  Miller Heiman wrote a book called Strategic Selling which outlines a process for dramatically improving sales success.  The key to the process is understanding where you stand with the customer and not waste your time if its not going to lead to success.  Many companies use this process now and it helps determine where they are in the process, should they invest more in the next steps, what to say if the process is stuck and, most importantly, determine if they need to move on and cut losses.

   Once you read the book you'll never forget the basics and recognize when its being applied to you....   

1. 
   jimmyk | Aug 20, 2004 12:53am | #8

   Good suggestion about getting a book to learn sales techniques.

   Thanks.

3. 
   jackplane | Aug 19, 2004 08:57pm | #4

   In sales, ya gotta close.

     To get to closing you need to finalize three elements; money(exchanged),quality(of work), and time(your time,and theirs). You want them on your schedule so it's important for them to commit the money. Otherwise, instead of agreeing on a specific time frame, they'll feel free to contact you at their leisure, or not at all.

   This is what closing is all about. It's good for you and for them. I'd give 'em a week plus a day, then follow up and ask if they want to be on the schedule.

   Don't confuse craftsmanship with business. They are two entirely separate skills, and like any skills, they require practice.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 8/19/2004 2:01 pm ET by JACKPLANE

1. 
   notDusty | Aug 19, 2004 10:25pm | #5

                      JACKPLANE ,

          Excellent point about confusing the skills of a craftsman , and those of a business manager . I have seen many really great and skilled wood workers that never learned the business end of things , and failed because of it. You can't survive on good work alone . As far as closing a sale , IMHO getting a deposit and putting things down on a contract or other paper to be legal, and also it shows commitment on the customers and they are less likely to make changes . Also we then make a commitment of a time frame, in which we will complete the job .Many people expect to wait for custom work .When I first started out I thought I knew all that I needed to know about running a business . After a few years I realized I knew little about business things . On the job training and wonderful mentoring from the best of friends all helped to stay alive .

                                              dusty

1. 
   jackplane | Aug 19, 2004 11:01pm | #6

   dusty,

    Thanks. I ran a small shop with an employee for several years, but now work for a larger company. I still do side work, fortunately at my choosing. Running a business ain't easy, but really does have its rewards.

    best,  jp

4. 
   CStanford | Aug 20, 2004 01:19am | #9

   Forget the telephone.  You need to own some decent stationery because here is where a handwritten note will work wonders.  Thank them for their time and tell them you have time available on your schedule for their project.  If they don't respond to this then move on to the next guy.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 8/19/2004 6:21 pm ET by cstanford

5. 
   nikkiwood | Aug 20, 2004 02:51am | #10

   You have received some good advice here -- particularly re: buying some books on selling. There are a gazillion of them, and a trip to the library is a cheap way to start.

   Like woodworking, or any craft, selling is an art. Becoming proficient is partly intuitive, but mainly learning a series of basic skills and techniques.

   One of the most important of those techniques, is learning how to "bug" people without seeming to bug them. In sales lingo it's called "follow-up on the sales contact."

   The trick here (the creative part) is coming up with a plausible, legitimate reason to contact the client. You can't (or shouldn't) just say " ahhh, geez, I'm calling to see if you made a decision yet."

   In your case, it would be pretty easy to simply call and say, " I've thought a lot about our conversation this past week, and I just found out I'm going to be driving right by your place tomorrow, and it would be great if I could pick up those sketches."

   This would constitute a good reason to call, and it will give you the opening to find out, as you say, "what's up."

   I use email a lot as part of the follow up process. I will actually look for something that has a specific connection to something we talked about -- a photo, web site, magazine article, etc. etc. --- send it to them, with some appropriate talk about the last meeting, hope to hear from you soon, want to build this project, etc. etc. Again, my point is, look for any reasonable and sincere reason to contact the client while they are in the decision making process.

   A lot of craftspeople have what I call the take-it-or-leave-it approach to sales. They find out what the client wants, show them the portfolio, tell the client they can build it , tell them how much it will cost. Client says "let me think about it" -- and they then wait for the phone to ring.

   I can almost always find something about a job or project that I find interesting or fascinating, and I try hard to communicate this enthusiasm/interest. I am often at the high end of the price scale, so I usually get a job because they think, "gee, he really wants to build this thing."

   Sincerity is the key, of course; if you come across as phony or too slick -- you will be dead in the water.

   Closing, of course, is a skill onto itself. But selling custom cabinetry has an advantage over many other products. The nature of the business is such that there is always a lead time. In fact, if you're any good, the client actually expects that you are booked for 6 months or more. So if you are not that busy, and you really do want the job, you can always call and tell them you just had a cancellation (even if it is a table you were going to build for yourself), and if they want to go ahead with the project, you could fit it into your schedule, and have it finished by xxx.

   Hope this helps some.................

6. 
   BillLindau | Aug 21, 2004 02:21pm | #11

   Tell him you can't hold his time slot open indefinitely and as a courtesy to him, you wanted to let him know you were about to fill it with something else.

   Bill Lindau

1. 
   jimmyk | Aug 30, 2004 04:54pm | #12

   I finally got him on the phone this morning, two weeks after meeting with him. He says he's real busy and hasn't had a chance to measure what he wants me to make, but he'll do it today. How do I read a person like this? Is he really too busy to do this, or is he blowing me off? He always sounds sincere when I talk to him, and I asked if "everything was ok between us", and he said everything was fine, he's just real busy. I'd like to drop him, but the potential for good money is with him.

1. 
   notDusty | Aug 30, 2004 05:20pm | #13

                  molten ,

           Assume he has been busy , and truly has not taken the time to measure up the job , (which you could offer to do ) and go on about your business as usual. He must not be on a short time line , so when he says he is ready and you are 2 months out , lets hope he will be as casual  as he has been so far .I have had people call back several months and up to a year or so later , and say O.K. I am ready for you to do my job now.

                   hang in there and good luck                dusty

1. 
   jimmyk | Aug 31, 2004 04:30am | #16

   It's funny you'd write that advice today, because just this afternoon, a designer from a big commercial design company that I showed my portfolio to way back in April called me and says they need a prototype of an entertainment center made to show to their client before they go off and have dozens of these made (probably in China).

   Edited 8/31/2004 8:01 am ET by molten

2. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Aug 30, 2004 07:09pm | #14

   molten,

   He may be busy, but my experience is that he may have someone else working/bidding the job and is waiting on their design.  Usually if the client is ready to move, my experience is that it is a 3 or 4 day process max from initial contact to final design & close.  I have learned not to give out drawings, sketches, etc. of my designs unless I have been paid a fee.  If he is working with someone else, what is to stop him from taking your design and handing it over to the other guy to bid? build? 

3. 
   BG | Aug 30, 2004 07:19pm | #15

   Molton,

   What you should have said: " Maybe your too busy for this project, why don't we just forget it for now"...."This is the first step and I'll need additional timely decisions from you to keep this project on budget..."

   Then you'd know where you stand...

1. 
   jimmyk | Aug 31, 2004 04:31am | #17

   That seems a little harsh, doesn't it?

1. 
   BG | Aug 31, 2004 05:40am | #18

   Molton,

   As I said before...you have to know where you stand...and it takes courage to give him every out if he wants it....but there is no sense in you investing your energy, mental or physical, on a customer that does not intend to go forward with the project.

   Ironically, the customer more times than not bends over backward to assure you he's sincere and it gets things moving.

2. 
   jimmyk | Aug 31, 2004 03:02pm | #19

   I can see your point.