Hello, I currently have a middle of the road tablesaw that has served me well. but i am looking at making some changes to my shop that would take up even more of my precious space. My shop is in a one car garage, and the tablesaw seems to take up 1/3 of my floor space. My question is this, although i know it would take longer to get some things done i know i could get everything done with bandsaw, circular saw, router etc. and regain a ton of space. how many of you don’t have a tablesaw? thanks, Dan.
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Replies
I dont,
Keep thinking about it but there is always new shoes for the kids, daughter needs a new dancing dress this year. the hand tool auction in April looks good (http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au ), and while I can saw effectively, I think that if I want to pursue bent stuff the money will probably go into a planner/thicknesser first.
Dave
For many of my early WW years I was limited to hand tools and a Radial Arm saw and made some respectable pieces. But now I wouldn't be without a Table saw.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Dan,
I have a cheap one I purchased from Lowe's for $139. It hangs on the wall went not in use, which is most of the time.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Rob,
Judging by the work on your website that tablesaw should stay hanging on the wall. WOW, that is some really cool stuff. I would love to be able to do all the inlay work and banding that you do but I am afraid I don't have the patience for it. How long did it take you to learn how to do that?
Keep up the good work. I am happy for you that you can make a living producing wonderful pieces like that.
Rob
Rob,
I knew I was a rank beginner, but you have shown me that I'm truly a insignificant rank beginner. Of course you do this for a living, and I'm a hobbyist, but MAN!! You are good. If I sweep your floors for free and bow respectfully when you enter the room, may I watch you work sometime and maybe learn something? Amazing work.
SteveThere are two secrets to keeping one's wife happy.
1. Let her think she's having her own way.
2. Let her have her own way. President Lyndon Baines Johnson
In case someone is not familiar with Rob's work, check out his website! Unbelievable stuff built with only a hang on the wall tablesaw!!!! Just goes to show you, its not the high dollar tools you have, it's the talent. Taken me a long time to realize that.
Jeff
I don't have one and only ever used one once and wasn't impressed. Ripping by hand isn't really that difficult except when it takes and long time and is really hard work. In those cases, I tend to do some sweating!
But that's not the downside of not having a TS. Without an electric saw, I have great deal of difficulty working with plywood, flake board, and mdf. So I have to resort to making things out of actual wood. (boy I almost had myself talked into a table saw for a minute!)
Seriously, I think it depends on the sort of work you do. You'd be nuts put off the purchase of a table saw until AFTER you fab up those new kitchen cabinets. Otherwise, I think its nice not having one. Less dust, more shop space. And you can probably rip pretty well on a band saw, no? Only used one of those once too. I liked it much better but I thought it would cut faster. I can saw by hand almost as fast.
In general, I think the TS is over rated. Gary Rogokowski wrote a good article for FWW T&S a few years back entitled something "Top 5 Power tools" and a TS didn't make the list.
Adam
Adam,
I Like your "Arts and Mysteries" articles. I don't have the patience for handsawing, but it would probably be a good thing to develop. I agree with you that there are lots of methods used by the old masters worth preserving and rediscovering. Keep up the good work. Your contributions are appreciated.
SteveThere are two secrets to keeping one's wife happy.
1. Let her think she's having her own way.
2. Let her have her own way. President Lyndon Baines Johnson
Adam,
I'm shocked that you are even aware of the existence of the table saw and band saw.
Rob Millard
I believe that most wws could skip the ts if they had a bandsaw, a Festool plunge circ. saw with guide system, a sliding miter saw and a few good hand saws.
I currently have two table saws but I would do well with this setup.
TWG.
Edited 2/22/2007 7:54 am ET by TWG
"although i know it would take longer to get some things done i know i could get everything done with bandsaw, circular saw, router etc. and regain a ton of space. how many of you don't have a tablesaw"
Well, if you "know" you "could get everything done with bandsaw, circular saw, router, etc," why are you asking how many don't have a table saw? You're really not sure of your assertion? You think if others operate without a table saw, that will make your decision easier? You need validation?
This is really an "artificial" issue, like asking "what's the best table saw," or, "if you could only have one tool with you on a desert island, which would you choose?" You will always get some responses, but what validity do they have to your situation, or any situation?
If you think you can operate without one, do it. What does it matter if selected individuals agree or disagree (based on their work habits)? But the simple truth is, the table saw is one of the most useful tools in the wood shop, and in a truly representative poll would be the most represented tool by a landslide.
I have long championed the bandsaw as more capable in some areas, but a table saw is more things to more people than any other piece of power equipment in existence. It simply is that versatile a tool, and there is no denying that. It is no accident that there is hardly a workshop in existence without one. Are all those workers missing the secret that one can operate without one? Of course not!
Your "poll" selects for those not using one. People using one aren't likely to chime in. Where does that leave you? With a very skewed sample of responses from very unusual workers, who have taken the opportunity to emphasize their unique and unusual setups. They may be superb craftsman, (or not) but their techniques and styles do not represent methods of work that might help you or the general woodworking community.
Don't be misled into thinking your poorly designed survey has provided insight into this issue. A better question might have been, "How many people who have tried to operate a workshop without a table saw have found the effort successful?" My strictly unscientific survey of this kind of thing is that, despite the few "unusual individuals" who work without one, most workers find it limiting and very awkward to replace the saw's functions with other pieces of equipment (yes, even EZ-Smart and Festool circular saw guide systems, however ingenious they may be!)
Good luck. I know the limitations of a one-car garage and I don't envy you. Been there and done that, too much. But if you give it up, I predict you will miss the table saw big time, and eventually welcome it back into your work.
Rich
I feel pretty much like some of the responses. I like Adam's mention that if there are sheetgoods you need to cut, a tablesaw is nice, but not an absolute necessity. I get by just fine without one--but like Adam I don't use sheetgoods for furniture.
A guided saw will work fine for sheetgoods if you use them. A solid plus about a guided saw is that one can stow it away until needed under a bench. The cuts on the better systems are/can be superb.
Unlike Adam, I rely a lot on a bandsaw. I like sawing my own veneers and I like that sometimes I can purchase a 16/4 chunk of Mahogany or the like and make all the components for a piece from it, short of the veneers or secondary woods. I wouldn't want to saw those by hand. I do hand saw 8/4 and down, however. It's hard work. I find it an enjoyable necessity for my goals.
Good luck on your decision.
Take care, Mike
I just bought a new table saw, I can't imagine working with out it. I really like working with wood, but I also have other things to do. Ripping 6 or 8 or what ever I need, 8' boards by hand, doesn't interest me. I guess that it doesn't make sense to me to rip something by hand, and then run it through my router. Just my personal preferance.
Pedro
My question is this, although i know it would take longer to get some things done i know i could get everything done with bandsaw, circular saw, router etc.
Yout thoughts are on the right track.
http://www.youtube.com/v/3I4bg4jjtz8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmoUxMXZR_o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGzoQGfUNg
david
David,What you've shown is Gino's EZ-Smart system. It's a BRILLIANTLY designed system. In my opinion its most important attribute is the SAFETY it affords the woodworker. It gets his or her hands far away from the cutting blade during all operations. It, and other systems such as the Festool turn a circular saw into a precision instrument.Notice, however, the table on which the cutting jig is operating. It doesen't exactly take up zero space. In fact, setting up the system with any of the tables Gino has devised takes up as much, if not more room than a contractor's saw, or even a cabinet saw. The OP proposed doing without a table saw to save space. This won't do it. It's tempting to try to use an existing table, even the work bench. That's just an exercise in frustration. The guide system needs a certain amount of dedicated real estate to do its job.I think every well-equipped shop should have one of these systems, it changes the way you conceptualize many operations that you would have done on a TS or other machine. But these guide systems do not replace anything in the shop, they supplement and complement a good selection of other tools and machines. It's not the EZ Smart OR a TS. It's the EZ Smart AND a TS.Rich
Rich.
... it changes the way you conceptualize many operations that you would have done on a TS or other machine.
I agree with you on this one. I agree with the safety and versatility of Gino's Bridge.
Building a bridge on your existing table or your work bench is a good idea.
I think the Bridge is a new idea and nothing to do with other guide systems.
...It, and other systems such as ...
...But these guide systems do not replace anything in the shop...
...The guide system needs a certain amount of dedicated real estate to do its job.
... one of these systems,
...they supplement and complement a good selection of other tools and machines.
david
<<< "Notice, however, the table on which the cutting jig is operating. It doesen't exactly take up zero space. In fact, setting up the system with any of the tables Gino has devised takes up as much, if not more room than a contractor's saw, or even a cabinet saw. The OP proposed doing without a table saw to save space. This won't do it. It's tempting to try to use an existing table, even the work bench. That's just an exercise in frustration. The guide system needs a certain amount of dedicated real estate to do its job." >>>I don't think that is exactly right. If you're working in an extremely limited space, the virtue of these guide systems is that they can be folded up/broken down and moved out of the way to make room for other operations.The OP said he's working with a single car garage, and it might be frustrating and not very efficient, but I think he could do fine without a TS, particularly with Dino's EZ system.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Nikkiwood,These systems need as much space as a table saw in which to work. They ALL need a table of some kind. One could argue that an existing table could suffice, saving space. But the argument could also be made that a table saw can function as a table when not being used as a saw.It may seem like these systems take up no room because they can be folded up and put away. That's simply false perception. Their actual use really does require as much room as a table saw. Every time a cut has to be made, that reality is abundently clear, and the shop area devoted to their use can't be ignored. Try one and see if you have any more room to move around in, working for several hours. It's just an illusion that you might, until you actually put one to use.Rich
Rich.
A tablesaw needs permanent space and you need 3 times the size of the materials.
Moving the wood requires more space VS moving the tool on the track.
david.
http://home.comcast.net/~matt_mulka/inhouse_10.jpg
I made this secretary in a 12' by 12' shed without a table saw. Some of the tasks took longer than they would have with a table saw, but I don't regret one bit that I don't have a table saw. Table saws get a lot of hype, but in my opinion there are a lot more versatile tools out there. Routers and hand planes are the most versatile tools in my opinion.
Your mileage may vary...
When people 100 years from now see my work, they'll know I cared. --Matt Mulka
I use a contractors saw. Cost me around $800, I bought it in Japan, the same saw in the U.S. goes for $200. Do I want a cabinet saw? Could I affored one at $8000?
It's not real accurate so this helps train my handlpane tecnique. Do I really need a t.s.? It cuts down on the amount of "work". With accuracy I depend on joiner planes, shooting boards, etc.
I have a table saw. Its not in my shop, takes up to much space. So I dont use it much. Most rips go to the bandsaw. Sometimes it takes a little moment thinking of a way to do something without the table saw, but its not hard.
I had the same problem for years until I built a larger garage and shop. I, like you, found that a table saw took up a lot of space. I got double duty out of my saw by making a removable top from masonite or thin plywood with a lip around the under side of its edges to keep it from sliding off. I then used it for a bench or table.I also did away with table extensions to save space. Maytbe not the best solution but it worked for me. Poor folks have poor ways.
I do have a table saw... a light weight aluminum saw, basically a benchtop model on a stand. It's worked reasonably well for what I paid for it, but there is no way I'm going to horse sheet goods over this thing. Even w/ some feather boards and guides and such I've never been 100% comfortable when ripping on it. The limited work I do at this point (cabinets, shop stuff, outdoor furniture, some finish/trim work) involves enough sheet goods that I spend a lot of quality time w/ my circular saw ;) I ordered a GCSS and plan to move as much as possible over to it so as to avoid the hassle of juggling the TS so as to be able to fit one item or another across it. It may work, it may not. Time will tell :D
I think the answer ot your question is obvious. Since woodworking predates the table saw, the answer is yes you could get away without a table saw. As with most power tools, the table saw is a tool of efficency not necessity.
If you do this for a hobby, and enjoy taking your time on projects this really represents an opportunity to learn and expand your skills.
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