I have worked my way up to my most ambitious project yet. I want to build a table and chairs for the dining room. I plan on starting with the chairs – because I think they will be the hardest part for me. I do not own a band saw, and this will finally be my justification for buying one. My problem is, having never owned one, I don’t know how big of one I should get.
Will a 3/4 hp 14in bandsaw cut through 5 inches of oak to make a curved crest rail? Or do I need something with more horsepower?
I don’t necessarily need something for commercial use, but I want something that will allow me to build furniture for the rest of the house and not need to be replaced any time soon. I like the idea of staying in the 14 in range due to budget constraints, but I need to know if I need to go with more horsepower for cutting thick oak.
I have attached a picture of the type of chairs I want to make.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Replies
I just went through the process of buying a bandsaw. What I learned is that there are so many things that will contribute to a bandsaw's ability to cut through a given thickness of wood that narrowing it down to one aspect, such as motor horsepower, is impossible. The type of blade you use, how sharp it is, and the amount of tension you can put on it all contribute to the cutting ability of a bandsaw.
If you have a store nearby that sells bandsaws, probably the best thing to do would be to take a 5" thick piece of oak over there and see if you can try out the saws in person.
If not, well, I guess that is what this forum (and others) are for.
As for me, I wound up buying a used 16" Walker-Turner bandsaw with a 1/2 HP motor that had no problem sawing through > 6" of cherry when I tried it out. The seller told me that he could resaw up to 9" of hardwood with that saw. This isn't to say that 1/2 HP is necessarily enough for resawing -- apparently motor HP is measured slightly differently today than in the 1940's when this bandsaw was made. Probably my bandsaw's motor delivers much more torque than a modern day 1/2 HP motor.
For what it's worth, my choice for a new saw would have been the Bridgewood 17" bandsaw, if the ceilings in my shop weren't so low.
I just bought a mini max 16 sixteen inch band saw. It is equipped with a 4.8 HP motor. Is that ridiculously high HP or is it as you say different ratings that in the 40's? I haven't gotten around to plugging it in yet.
Reading over my original response, I don't think I really answered KindaHandy's question. I think that a 14" bandsaw with a 3/4 HP motor should be able to handle 5" of oak. If it doesn't, the first move would be to get a really good blade, rather than worrying about the motor. The second move would be to make sure the bandsaw is as tuned up as possible. But if you are really interested in a bandsaw and can look at one in the store, the best thing to do is to give it a try.tinkerer2, although your MM16 (I'm jealous, by the way) and my Walker-Turner are both 16" bandsaws, they are in very different classes. The MM16 can resaw up to 16", whereas my Walker-Turner has a resaw capacity of 10". Putting a 4.8 HP on my bandsaw would be ridiculous, since I can't get anywhere near a 16" resaw. For yours, it is likely to be a great match.All things being equal, a bandsaw with a more powerful motor will be able to resaw more than a bandsaw with less power. I think the problem many people face when trying to decide what to buy is not realizing what the right question actually is.The questions:"How much horsepower do I need to saw 5" oak?"and "What kind of bandsaw will saw 5" oak?"are not exactly identical. The first question presupposes that HP is the only factor in sawing power, and that HP alone is an accurate measure of a motor's ability. Both assumptions are false. Believe me, I went down this path many times in looking for a bandsaw.
I have a GI 90-125 with the riser kit (it's 14" 1HP). I don't find the capacity limiting at all, I've resawed up to 8" of ash and cherry no problem. I spent approx $700 (CDN) on it, and no problems.
I think if you're looking for a general purpose bandsaw you will not go to wrong on with a 14". It'll work for occasional resaw, as well as all the rest.
The only tip I can saw is get a good quality blade. Viking/Timberwolf is what I use, and I really like them. I tossed the stock blades.
Dear Kinda,
To answer your question: yes, a 14" 3/4 hp bandsaw will re-saw 5" oak. I did it on mine. I also had a brand new 3/4" AS-S Timberwolf blade on it. With all else set up properly on the saw, a good blade is a must for good re-saw.
For me, budget was an issue as well, and I just do the woodworking thing for fun and furniture.
You could read the recent review in FWW on 14" bandsaws and go from there.
Good luck,
RoyH
I just finished 6 chairs, round table, & side board. Your chair design is similar to mind, but slightly more complicated. My bandsaw is a Delta 14" with riser kit. I refitted it with a 1.5 HP motor which I found used, but I think that step was probably unnecessary. The bandsaw is my favorite stationary power tool. If you are on a budget, Lowe's has a bargain price on the bottom-of-the-line model. It is highly upgradeable. If money is available, you can get it with a closed stand & larger motors at very decent prices from many sources. Some models have two speeds. Personally, I don't want to fool with speed changes. I don't see the value for WWing.
LOL with your project.
Cadiddlehopper
I recently got a Grizzly G0555 14 inch bandsaw with the 6" riser block. With a 1/2" Timberwolf blade I have resawed 9" walnut with minimal effort. Very happy with this saw.
Thank you all very much for your input. It looks like in addition to horsepower I should look at which blade I will be using. I also read the review on 14in bandsaws FWW and I think I am narrowing the field to two choices. The Grizzly G0555 "Ultimate" 14in bandsaw and Rigid BS1400 are close to matching my budget.
I have some concern about each of the saws. The review of the older Grizzly G1019 in FWW points out a low blade tension limit. I'm wondering if this has been fixed on newer models, or if this is even an important factor. The Grizzly G0555 has a 1hp motor, 4" dustport, a decent looking fence, and after using the promotional code at Amazon.com I could get it for around $444.25.
The Rigid BS1400 available at the local HD is the same model number reviewed in the FWW article, although it appears to have updated colors. The Rigid did well in the FWW review, but it is hard to find any current information on it. It has a limited "lifetime" warranty as well, but for some reason I'm still hesitant to buy this bandsaw even though the price a the local HD is $75 cheaper than the Grizzly. The local HD price after tax is $369.25.
If anyone has any further input on either of these two saws I would appreciate anything you may have to say about them. Thank you again for everyone's help.
If anyone has any further input on either of these two saws I would appreciate anything you may have to say about them.
I commented on the Rigid BS1400 recently in another thread.
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=31369.6
Regards from Perth
Derek
I have the old Grizzly 1019Z, and a friend has the G0555. The G0555 is a much better-designed saw, but my 1019Z (with a riser block) does a fine job resawing. I have never found blade tension to be a problem, but I use Timberwolf blades, which are made of low-tension Swedish steel and require much less tension than standard blades. IMHO, they are the only blades to use on these smaller saws. References provided on request, LOL!!
In the ever-present magazine reviews, the Grizzly saws (1019Z or the G0555) have consistently outperformed other saws in their class in resawing tasks. The Grizzly motors take resawing quite well. If you decide to get a Rigid, I'd suggest getting it tuned up, putting a TW blade on it and doing a bunch of resawing right from the get-go. That way, if it doesn't perform you can take it back and look elsewhere.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 9/6/2006 12:03 pm by forestgirl
Do go take a look at the posts on
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=31369.6
where you'll find a good discussion on the Rigid. While it's a sound design, the actual unit to unit execution apparently varies a lot. It turns out that my particular Rigid has a slightly out of round pulley attached to the lower wheel. It's enough to make the saw twitchy.
Plus, it takes about 3 hours to unpack, assemble, and set up the saw. Given that it weighs 200 lbs, you have quite a sweat investment in it by the time you finally turn it on for the first time, so, as others have suggested, if you can test run the exact saw that you will be getting, it's well worth your while! So much so that I'd even pay the store a set-up charge for allowing me to take the floor model that you test (which they are very reluctant to do, as it's a pain to unbox and set up another one).
"the actual unit to unit execution apparently varies a lot." Not good. Most of the forum reports I've read haven't been glowing. Don't remember much about the review, haven't been keeping up.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FYI: I shopped around a couple of years back. In the process I looked at Ridgid, Grizzly (both), & Delta 14-inch saws in stores that sell them. (Grizzly had a 17-inch closeout that was tempting.) I chose Delta because it just looked stronger & better built, its Chinese source notwithstsanding. It has the largest table of the group. The price at Lowe's was very competitive at that time. Everyone else has come into line on Delta prices now. I installed the riser kit as I set it up. Even with that modification, the tracking did not have to be adjusted. I can change blades without tracking readjustment. No other tool in my shop is as easy to live with as my Delta bandsaw. I have owned others which never pleased me or were so reliable.Cadiddlehopper
I went through the same decision process over a year ago. I choose the Rikon 18" w/ 2 horse motor. It came down to the Delta 14 or the Rikon 18. The more I looked the more it was clear that I would get a lot more tool for a lot less moola. I paid $899 for the Rikon and didn't need any accessories like riser blocks or blade guides, and it has many nice features. The Rikon can use a 1/4 to 1 1/4 blade and can resaw a full 12" or so. My decision was complete when I saw the last two year's tool reviews on band saws. Good luck.
Look for a used saw. Lots of people looking to upgrade to larger machines. You should look for a used Powermatic or Delta 20" machine. Let someone else spend the big bucks on the new machines, buy used. My 1940s 900lb. Cresent 20" is every part as good as any NEW machine.
DJK
I bought a Delta 14" with 3/4 hp motor and riser six months ago. I've used it to resaw mahogany boards up to 11" wide by 8' long! It will do a reasonable job, but it's very slow. More importantly, the some of the design details and the overall build quailty were very disappointing, to the extent that I wrote to Delta to express my opinions. I didn't even get an acknowledgement, which doesn't really matter much because I will never buy another Delta machine.
What blade were you using and what design details were you unhappy with?
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
I used a 1/2" 3 tpi blade - nothing special. It worked well until it slipped off the rear support bearing, which meant that the guide blocks quickly took the set out of the teeth!
There were some poorly designed features like the motor mount (as an engineer, I'd be ashamed to have designed this). The additional safety guide that was supplied with the riser is impossible to fit, leaving a length of exposed blade. There was also something odd about the riser bolt - can't quite remember now, but it might have been a different thread or size of nut. It was all but impossible to tighten anyway. The table could not be levelled quite square with the blade in the fore-aft plane (at least this is less important than side to side). The adjusters for the support bearings are very poorly manufactured (they don't run true, they bind, and sometimes it's hard to keep the blade on the bearing). One of the bolts for the stand assembly sheared off under light tightening torque - a brittle fracture resulting from poor QA of the bolt. There were probably other things that I've since forgotten. Overall, I regret buying this tool and wish I'd bought the General instead or looked out for a used machine. Oh, it came with a voucher that offered a P-C orbital sander for $25. The voucher said "allow ten weeks" - it arrived last week after five months, and good old UPS had almost destroyed the case. I've had better experiences.
Whats the model number so I can get a look at the exploded view?
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
Model 28-276.
Okay I got the exploded view, a couple more questions.
Is the table square fore and aft to the guide support post?
Can you move the blade off the rear thrust bearing with finger pressure?
Is the guard that won't fit the one on the guide column or the one on the main casting C column?
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
Your first question will have to wait until tomorrow (it's 10.00 pm here).
I fitted a 3/4" 3 tpi blade last weekend and had to use the guide blocks to keep it on the bearing!
The guard is the additional one that came with the riser and is intended to fit on the guide column to cover the part of the blade that is exposed when cutting relatively thin stock. It's impossible to fit. I'm amazed that Delta didn't respond immediately to this deficiency. I still think that I must be missing something...
10 pm here too. When you measure tomorrow measure the outside dia. of the thrust bearing too. I'll go look at my guard, I took my riser block out when I got the second saw but I left the long guard on, I seem to remember there being some issue with it when I installed it but I'll have to go look to remember. I think you'll be happy with the saw if we can sort out these problems.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
The thrust bearing is 1.18" diameter. It is also poor quality and has visible play. I can bring it into line with the blade by rotating its hexagonal mount by two flats.
The column is out of square by 0.020" over 12" when the tension is off the blade. This reduces to 0.010" when the tension is on. As I said previously, this isn't really a problem in this plane. However, the blade is 0.050" out of square. This is with the blade running in the middle of the wheel.
Another design/manufacturing issue with this saw is the dust port. Even though this tapers, it is still too big to accept my 4" hose. I've had to sand it just to get the hose started, after which the vacuum will hold it on.
Delta is not one of my "favorite" brands and I don't pretend to know much about their line, but it is obvious that they offer more than one level of design and quality for similar tools. A dealer near me who sells mostly to the construction and commercial trades usually has on the floor several offerings with the Delta nameplate and they aren't very similar. For example, there at least two belt/disc sanders and they're like night and day. The 6/12 model is beefy and industrial-rated (I bought one) compared with the smaller one -- a 4/9, I believe. Other tools their line are quite different when you see them side-by-side nd also have major differences in price. I believe the 14-inch bandsaw is a "consumer" level tool. Something similar is true of Powermatic and, maybe, other manufacturers. I visited the Powermatic factory a few years ago and was given two completely different catalogs -- one being their traditional heavy-duty tools and the other -- their "Artisan" line (read that Taiwanese) -- for the small shop customer. I guess what it all boils down to is getting with a full-line dealer to find out what a given manufacturer offers in total. Woodcraft and maybe other retailers don't usually carry a full line even though I like to visit them to see what's new.
I think that the 3/4 hp will do what you want for THIS project. I have a 3/4 hp Jet 14 which resaws 6" oak or beech, albeit slowly. (Any wider and the saw will stall. ) As other posters say, the blade makes the most difference.
You might justify a larger saw by considering the needs of future projects as well: if I were to do over, I would go bigger like the Grizzly 17". BTW, I had some quality problems with the Jet and do not recommend it.
For years and years the Delta 14" band saw has been the high water mark for this size machine. I bought one ages ago when they were Rockwell and I can attest to the longevity of the machine. The machine I have may have the 1/2 hp motor and I can still resaw 6" of hard maple with no problems. This is a sturdy, well made saw and even with the new manufacturing location, I wouldn't take this saw out of serious consideration for what you intend to use it for.
For the home user, Delta equipment has always lacked engineering finesse in my opinion, but was sturdy and reasonably dependable. Since moving production to China, quality has deteriorated rapidly. I would strongly recommend buying an "old" Delta over a new one, although I keep wishing that there was a Hitachi or even a Makita alternative.
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