how much bandsaw does a hobbyist really need? how often will i ever need to resaw a board wider than 12 inches, it seems to me that a $700-800 bandsaw like a rikon or any other reasonable priced bandsaw would be more than enough. i salivate looking at the big $$ machines like Minimax, laguna, or even 18 inch bandsaws offered by many other retailers. in another thread someone brought up the idea that you should buy a little more of a machine than i can really afford. but for a person who only works in their shop when time allows a decent 14″ saw would be more than enough. am i thinking right. or should i save up for one of the fancier more powerful models. i do not need to buy one right away but on the other hand i do want to upgrade from my 12″ craftsman 1972 model.
kenney66
Replies
Once owned a Craftsman like yours. Later owned a Jet 12". Studied over a Grizzly 18" at their closeout department in Springfield. Now have a Delta 14". Been there; done that. IMHO, anything other than a Delta 14" is a waste of money for us hobbyists. The Delta clones made by Jet, Powermatic, or Ridgid may be equal. I can't say. But, there are many such cast iron saws available from about $400 & up. You can start at the bottom, add a riser kit, larger motor, etc. only if or as you need it. You can do that to the Delta. I can't speak for clones with certainty.
When I bought the other saws, the economic situation was different from today. Prices for Delta & clones have dropped to the point that putting money into a lesser saw is sort of pointless. Machine weight is a consideration for hobbyists, too. I sort of wish that I hadn't bought a 400-lb jointer. I am glad it has a set of wheels.
Cadiddlehopper
Kenny66,
I think your conclusions are solid...that is where I came down. One of the things that sold me was the fact that many shops keep their 14" saws after they buy the bigger model. Since buying the Delta 206 three years ago I've been quite pleased.
However, I did not buy the riser kit ($125) or a fense ($100) for my bandsaw. I did get a great price at $400 out the door...today I think they want $550. At any rate the Rikon had just appeared in the market so I didn't even consider them. Today, given Rikon's price and the cast iron wheels and the built in capacity to resaw larger stock I'd need to give them serious consideration.
Kenney66,
I build furniture every day, and the main power tool in my shop is the bandsaw. My Jet 14" open stand saw ( with riser block) will be 9 years old one day next week, and I have run the tail off of it, yet it still works fine. I did replace all the bearings a couple of years ago. If the saw were to give out, I'd replace it with the same model, but I might upgrade to the closed stand version with the more powerful motor.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Edited 12/1/2006 9:29 am ET by RMillard
Rob - beautiful work on your site. That says it all.
WOW; you are not kidding. Rob's work is stunning. I don't even dream of working at that level. NICE stuff......
My hat is off to you sir !
You are certainly a "master" in the same company as John Seymour.
I recently read "The furniture masterworks of John & Thomas Seymour" , and you may even transcend their work. Simply beautiful and outstanding.
Groucho,
I certainly appreciate your comments, and being compared to the Seymour's is the highest praise I can think of.
They still beat me by a mile, since they built their own designs ( I'm the woodworking equivalent of a cover band), they never heard of a router, surface planer, scroll saw or bandsaw; nor did they have 240 watts of florescent lights shining down on their bench.
Thanks again
Rob Millard
http://home.woh.rr.com/federalfurniture/
i was checking out your website, that is amazing stuff you do, and with a 14 inch jet with a riser block, thats a very good argument for the 14" band saw, how much horsepower is enough, if i wanted to resaw an 8 inch piece of oak how much horsepower is really appropriate. i assume more horsepower quicker smoother cut, less horsepower a slower cut but,
kenney66
Kenney66,
I have no problem resawing material that is 8" wide on the Jet and it only has a 3/4 horse power motor. I'm sure more horse power as Tim Taylor would say is better, and that is why I'd buy the 1 HP version if mine were to give out. I would consider a saw in the Jet class to be a minimum, for any serious work.
Just as important as horse power is the rigidity of the frame of the saw, which dictates how wide a blade can be fully tensioned. I was not happy with my saws performance, with 1/2" wide blades, even after changing to an after market tensioning spring. When I switched to 3/8" wide blades, resawing became a simple and predictable task. The Jet is probably a step below the Delta in the rigidity department. The Delta is the only other saw I've seen close up, so I don't know how other saws compare.
I'm kind of an oddball when it comes to tools; I don't own a jointer, and I rarely use my table saw ( which I got at Lowe's for $139.00).
Thanks for the comments about the furniture on my website.
Rob Millard
Comparing band saws is something like comparing a stone axe with steel axe. They both do the job; however one take a lot more effort than the other.$$ is certainly relevant; however performance is priority. Spending less $$ on a toy band saw will leave you regretting it as long as you own it. I own a Laguana 16" HD. My son-in-law owns a wimpy jet. Anytime he has a heavy duty piece of hardwood to cut he's over here using my band saw. You will never regret spending $$ on a tool that performes well. Do your homework, compare features, power capabilities and tool reviews. Good luck!
So, it seems the best combo is to buy a cheap saw and have a Father-in-law with a big saw!
You got it !!
However sometimes the younger crowd want all the toys now. Twenty five years is to long to wait. So, often the budget doesn't allow one to buy tenderloin and they settle for chuck. However with the saw; it's a lot of tough chewing and "b----ing" for many years to follow.
I am a hobbiest currently on my 3rd bandsaw. First was an 11" Shopsmith with so little capability I don't even remember the resaw capacity. Second was a 14" Delta with 6" resaw. Third is a Laguna LT-18 with 12" resaw. What you need depends primarily on what you want to do. For the past 4 years, I have gotten into turning and have used the BS to split logs and cut out bowl blanks. This part of my hobby demands much greater BS capacity than either of my first two bandsaws and at times, even the LT-18 doesn't have enough resaw height (I seem to need 12-1/2" more often than I care to admit).
I don't regret making any of these upgrades although it would have been nice to jump to the top at the very beginnning - the budget just didn't allow it. Overall, the process of upgrading costs considerably more and that is my only regret. Based on the available machines on the market today, the ideal bandsaw that would fit my current needs would either be the Laguna LT16HD or the Minimax MM16. While these have smaller diameters than the LT18 I currently have, they both offer a resaw height of about 16".
My recommendation would be to determine what the requirements are for what you like to do and then go up at least one step. This will allow for future growth without having to replace the machine again (at least in the near term).
Hope this is helpful - Steve
Optimal would be two units. A smaller well made unit for 1/8" to 1/4" blades for finer work and a larger unit for re-saw or lathe work if you go there. I like my Laguna LT-18 for resawing and general usage, but it won't track very narrow blades without a wheel offset adjustment, which means it would not work well then for wide blades. Eventually I would like to have both.
Depends what you're expecting to do with it I'd suppose. I can say that I've had a 14" Powermatic (with a riser) for going on three years and haven't yet wished for more and don't expect to any time soon.
But don't go by me, I have a contractor TS (PM 64A) and can't really imagine needing a cabinet saw. A PM2000 with it's heavy duty this and that, probably better dust collection than my home made covers, and riving knife is certainly a nice fantasy, but I'd wager you couldn't tell much difference between the 8/4 maple I riped on one vs. the other. Maybe with its extra power, I would have pushed the rip through 10 seconds faster - maybe, but I'm no production shop and such things are largely academic.
I think the manufacturers like to prey on the Tim from Tool Time mentality in all of us.
I'll add to the small contingent advocating a larger bandsaw - in the 16-18" category. This is not the "larger is always better, more power" story. I'll also add that I agree with the post that said that buying a larger machine right from the start is the more economical way to do it, because, given the opportunity, one will almost always prefer the bigger machine. Having spent money on a smaller machine, you never get that back.
I've used a variety of 14" machines for many years, and never thought I needed larger. I've resawed 10" spruce for guitar tops and 10" maple on Delta and Grizzly machines.
I'm sure I can set up just about any saw to work well, without drift, and without the motor laboring, no matter the type of wood being cut.l
Then I met the big guys. (wow). I've recently ordered a European combination machine and in the process of evaluation of those machines, got to test drive both a Hammer and a MiniMax 16" bandsaw. (I didn't buy the bandsaw because that wasn't in the budget.) Those machines made every operation that I normally would have done on my smaller machine a walk in the park. They effortlessly handled tasks that, while possible on the 14", taxed my ability on the smaller machine.
Being effortless, meant more accurate. They hadndled 1.25" blades as well as 1/8" blades magnificently. The way they were able to control the blades was an eye opener. Compared to the way blades behave on a 14" saw, the larger machines maintained very rigid and tight control, allowing almost no flexing. Very small tasks were easier. Large tasks were easier.
The smaller machines behave like flexible wimps. The large machines are stiff and smoothly balanced, due to the mass of the wheels. This all contributes to the quality of the cut and ease on the operator.
My 2C.
Rich
Edited 12/1/2006 3:14 pm ET by Rich14
rich how much horsepower is needed, can you resaw 12 inch boards with a 1 1/2 horsepower motor like you see on the delta x5 or rikon 14 inch for $749, or spend $1, 500+ for 2.5 hp minimax, I can see using my band saw for nothing more than the occassional project not for heavy duty milling, you know. On the other hand I can wait save up for the bigger machine, but do i really and truly need it, this shopping stuff stinks, too many choices sometimes,
Kenney66
I offer a different twist, although I realize this will not work for everone and is slightly off the subject. I have 2 bandsaws......... One is a Delta 14" bandsaw. Same as a lot of other people. The other is a woodmizer LT 15 that can cut logs up to 27" in diameter and 11' long. My point is that I can saw my own lumber, saw it exactly the way I want it, to any dimension, quartersawn, etc. It is amazing how many $ you can save by not buying lumber. I am no professional, and the best return on any money that I have ever spent is on that portable bandmill. I cut for my own use or for friends, but I have sawn close to 20,000 feet of walnut, oak, poplar, pecan, sugarberry, chinaberry, cherry, sycamore, etc. I have 8,000 bd-ft of walnut in my lumber shed as a result of this little mill. You don't have to get a-hold of many logs to pay for it if you have the room to dry the lumber. If you had to cut big blanks or resaw large timbers, and if you had a little room, the small manual bandsaw mills open up a whole new world of opportunity for you. Also, sawmills attract logs like honey attracts flies. You would be surprised at how many quality logs get landfilled.
Pardon me for talking about sawmilling on a Fine Woodworking Forum because I do not want to offend any artisans, but even for artisans, the wood has to come from some place.
No need to apologize, It is good to get the logs out of the landfill and made into furniture. Good for the environment as well as the wallet. How do you get word out and what do you charge? How much did the woodmizer cost? Just curious, it has been rolling aroung the back of my mind for a while now, just never got around to looking at the costs and ROI.
" There'll be no living with her now" - Captain Jack Sparrow
Since I bought the mill 4 years ago, I have only cut for myself and a few select friends. By myself, I can cut 500 feet in 8 hours. My best day with a helper is 1300 feet. The LT 15 is small and everything is manual (no hydraulics), so it is not a high production machine. If I wanted to cut for a fee, I would need bigger hydraulic mill that can produce 3000 -4000 feet in a day. I paid $5400 new. It came with 20 blades. New blades cost $20, but they can be re-sharpened about 5 times. You send them to woodmizer and they re-sharpen them for about $6. A blade will yield about 500 feet before it needs to be re-sharpened. When I went to buy lumber for the workbench I always wanted in my shop, I was shocked at the cost. That is what made me buy mill. I cut a large oak that had died that summer as my first sawing project, and that is what became my work bench!
I own timberland, so I have a source of logs. The trick would be to get the word out that you will saw on halves, that is, you get half the lumber for sawing for someone. If you did a lot of woodworking, the mill would pay out pretty quick, plus, I find it satisfying to cut and dry my own stock. If you decide to buy one, I can give you more info about what I have learned.
Edited 12/1/2006 4:53 pm ET by DHAM
I have a 12 inch (it just collects dust) and a 18 inch. My suggestion is to look for a good, used, 14 inch bandsaw. They are great for cutting curves and they can do an adequate job on resawing (if you have a good blade). That way, if you find you need more, as your hobbie progresses, you can spring for a good 16 or 18 incher... This way, you can lessen the upfront investment on a tool you may not need. I live in Denver and I've seen jets, deltas and PM bandsaws go for $200 to $400 bucks on Craigslist.org. IMHO, I think it would be great to own a good 14 and 18 inch bandsaw. Even the guys and gals that have a 16 in MiniMax or an 18in Laguna can't disagree with that.
I too have had many bandsaws over the past 30 years. About 8 years ago I upgraded to a Luguna 18". I was not totally happy with it due to the rickety noisey Euro guides. Then I upgraded to their new ceramic guides. Very nice, smooth and quiet.
But with all this expense I still needed something small for those 1/8" blades. So I bought a Craftsman 9" benchtop saw for only small blades. Now all is perfect, from resawing to tight curves I finally have a good combination.
If I bought only one, it would be a Delta 14" with riser block. But this all depends on your needs. Glenn
I totally agree. Blade changes are pretty quick... but most "affordable" 16 or 18 inch BS won't do well with the 1/8 or 1/4 inch blades (for those tight curves). I think a 14 with riser block and, eventually, a 16 or 18 inch (space and cash permitting) would be the perfect way to go.
Remember, a 14 inch BS with a $150.00 riser block will have the same resaw capacity as most affordable 16 and 18 inch bandsaws. Save some cash for a few hand planes, some nice chisels and a dovetail saw :0)
Edited 12/1/2006 7:53 pm ET by Tbagn
Postscript:
Per Bioman's suggestion, you probably should keep the Craftsman with 1/8-inch blade installed if you have a corner where you can tuck it away. It won't fetch many $$$ anyway. It could reduce blade changes by about 75%. I miss my Jet 12" though I got a decent price. BTW, blade changes on my Delta go much faster than on any previous saw I owned. I don't have to fiddle with tracking at all. I only adjust guides & thrust bearings.
Cadiddlehopper
I just bought a Steel City 18" BS and will (hopefully) take delivery tomorrow. I'll let you know how I make out after I have had a chance to use it a bit.
There are many good points made by those posting on this thread, but I would recommend that you check out Lonnie Bird's "Bandsaw Book". He is a fine WWr, insightful writer and covers many topics very well. He discusses the question you posed in detail, and covers the choice, set-up, upgrade, use and troubleshooting of BS, often citing his own considerable experience. All in all, a worth read and a useful addition to the library.
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
awesome info people, i think i will keep my little craftsman, and start saving for a larger one, i have really been eyeing the MMax 16", happy holidays to you all,
kenney66
Glaucon:
I was thinking of their 16", but they don't have any dealers in (tax free) NH. If you saw their product line - how's the build quality? (we can wait for a report though).
Did you consider other models?
dave
Dave,I thought that the 18" with its 2 hp motor and blade width capabilities would allow me to cut, rip, resaw and do the occasional cherry log that came my way. I did not want to have to upgrade to something beefier in a few years.I picked up the saw today but have not uncrated it yet. Sarge did an extensive review and bought the SC 18". He's also had a chance to put some wood through it. There are two extensive threads in the past 30 days that he posted, the latest is messages 32538.1 and following.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Kenney,
I'll second the vote for the 14" Jet. Where I work we use an 18" Davis&Wells and a 32" Italian-made saw. I have the Jet in my home shop. It can be tuned as fine or finer than those big saws. Of course it isn't as powerful but for basic or better shop duty I would recommend it.
-Paul
I'll also add my vote for the 14" Jet. I have the closed stand model, w/ a 1 hp motor and the riser block. Yesterday I cut through some 12" walnut logs for bowl blanks. I have cut veneer from 8" maple. Never had a problem. Possibly some of the folks who think these 14" machines are toys were using the wrong blade for the job. I use the bladerunner from Iturra (same as the Wood Slicer) and it works great.
Jost my $0.02
John L
I have a Delta 14" with some upgrades from Iturra. There's very little I can't do as a hobbyist. If I need to resaw something wide, my local lumber yard has a big resaw.
(I don't have a father-in-law with a big saw)
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