How much did your SawStop cost?
forestgirl
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
Not finding much pricing information online about SawStop. Woodcraft doesn’t have it listed. Would like to know, for those of you who have the 3HP model, about how much it cost and what, if any, options you got with it.
Sign me: Nosy Parker
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Replies
http://www.houseoftools.com/subgrouping.htm?searcht=&results=15&type=default&cat=2484&orderfield=&sort=&mid=&n=31
Here are the prices on this side of the 49th.
There is a price list on their website. The dealers have zero room to move on these - the price is the same everywhere (so my local guy claims).
http://www.sawstop.com/products-cabinet-saw-pricing.htm
If you do find better pricing, please let me know! I am going to pull the trigger soon!
My understanding is that's the price plus you'll have to pay shipping which adds another $400 to the unit.
I like, the concept of the saw, but I noticed that under options, it showed a 36" & 52" fence and rails. What the heck comes on it? I'm sure its listed somewhere, but it just appeared funny! It's like buying my last truck, the bumper was listed as an option? Had to laugh at that one. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
I don't believe a fence is included in the price of the saw. It must be ordered as an option.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Yep, just like my truck, next the steering wheel will be an option!Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
I keep hoping some bright engineer will come up with a device that provides the same safety without destroying an expensive blade and requiring replacement of an expensive cartridge. Good idea but a particularly inelegant solution.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
It does have the added benefit of leaving your hand intact, however.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Very true, and hard to put a dollar value on that!
I still think some enterprising person is going to come up with a non-destructive way to accomplish the task.
It is my understanding that the blade retraction is accomplished very quickly, I am wondering how big the nick in the hot dog would be if the retraction was allowed to occur but not the brake.
Anybody know if the retraction is vertical or is it rearwards and down?------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
At first the blade moves back about a quarter of an inch, motion caused by the brake striking the blade. As the arbor assembly goes back, it clears a pawl that then drops the blade straight down.
John White
Thanks John,
Any thoughts on whether it retacts and drops fast enough to prevent significant injury?
I was thinking perhaps a hefty solenoid to pull it past the pawl?------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Good idea but a particularly inelegant solution.
I very respectfully disagree. The ideas behind the saw are so simple, yet they accomplish their task as designed. I'd gladly trade $200 to avoid any real damage to my hand...
That said, the solution does become slightly less elegant when it's a misfire. Honestly I can not really think of anyway to stop something moving that fast that quickly without it being somewhat destructive. I suppose you are correct if the blade was allowed to continue to spin, but dropped as fast... maybe at a slightly back-down angle... The only question is if it would be as effective.
"The only question is if it would be as effective"
That is the burning question. I agree it's a great idea and well worth the price premium should one come in contact with the blade, I just think that as with most designs there is a better way to accomplish it. Something that does not destroy the blade and is field resettable without the neccesity of stocking expensive spares.
Another question is how big a nick in the hotdog, finger etc is acceptable. Equal to the present, short of stiches, short of the bone, short of needing professional medical attention?
I could live with a SLIGHTLY deeper cut if it meant saving the blade and not needing a cartridge. Something soap, water and a bandaid could take care of for instance.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
"I just think that as with most designs there is a better way to accomplish it."
Do you really think that the SawStop engineers just shrugged off the cost of a new cartridge? I'm sure that they knew that people would consider the cost to be a major disadvantage of the system, and I'm also sure that they worked as hard as they could to minimize that cost. (After all, misfires are covered under warranty, so it costs them, too.)
One thing to keep in mind is that you're not just stopping the rotation of the blade; you're stopping the rotation of the motor. There's a tremendous amount of stored energy in the form of angular momentum inside the motor, and you have to dump all of that energy in 5 milliseconds.
Mechanically speaking, all of the technological challenges are in the brake. The retraction of the blade comes "for free"; when the brake fires, the torque applied by the brake is what causes the motor to pivot down and away.
It's pretty standard for systems that have to react at extremely high speed and have to be absolutely reliable to self-destruct as they're doing so. Even when the total amount of energy involved is not large, the required speeds are so high that the instantaneous power levels can be astronomical. Airbags, explosive bolts, rupture disks, etc. are all one-shot devices. Conventional mechanisms either can't handle the power requirements or become so complicated that they compromise reliability.
-Steve
Steve;
Is it truly necessary to stop the rotation? Without testing I don't know aand I have no idea what the engineers were thinking. Possibly they pursued that path and were unsucessful. Or maybe they were fixated on stopping the rotation and did not explore it. Only they know.
A quick search turned up a solenoid with a retraction time of 10ms which leads back to my question of the necessity of stopping rotation and also how much injury is acceptable. Twice the severity of the current system I could live with.
To assume a system is as good it can be goes against history, nearly everything has been improved upon.
Even if it turns out that rotation must be stopped there may be a way of doing it in a non destructive manner, possibly a resettable mechanism with a larger surface area of a material similar to a tire compound. Perhaps even that would exceed the force necessary to break the brazed bond on the carbide, I don't know. I do know that if I was a saw manufacturer I would be finding out.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
"Is it truly necessary to stop the rotation?"
Is it absolutely, positively necessary to stop the rotation? Probably not. Is stopping the rotation the most reliable way to ensure that the blade won't do damage? Absolutely, positively yes. A mechanism that could force the blade to rapidly retract under the table would be more complicated and therefore less reliable than what is essentially a firecracker-powered, spring-loaded crowbar. Watch the slow-motion video at the SawStop web site. The blade doesn't even begin to retract until it has already come to a dead stop.
"A quick search turned up a solenoid with a retraction time of 10ms..."
Let's go through some numbers here: You want to retract a blade that is sticking, say, 2" up through the table, and you want it completely buried within 10 ms. That blade is attached to a motor and trunnion assembly that conservatively weighs 40 lb. If you do the math, you find out that your solenoid has to be able to exert a force of 20 kN (equivalent to about 100 times the force of gravity). Now put those numbers into your solenoid search engine and see what you come up with.
Do solenoids with this kind of capability exist? Yes, they're used in things like high-voltage, high-current circuit breakers in electrical substations. They cost thousands of dollars each.
"...possibly a resettable mechanism with a larger surface area of a material similar to a tire compound..."
I think you're again underestimating the force required. I think the SawStop mechanism works as quickly as it does because it doesn't rely on friction. Rather, it relies on the teeth of the blade being jammed into a chunk of aluminum. Let's say you do come up with a non-destructive mechanism that works like a disc brake. What happens when the user installs a fancy Teflon-coated blade?
"To assume a system is as good it can be goes against history, nearly everything has been improved upon."
No, I'm sure that improvements could be made, and I'm sure that the SawStop people are working on them right now. Given the amount of engineering that's clearly been put into the product already, I would guess that it would take at least a few hundred thousand dollars to come up with anything that works better.
-Steve
I paid just under $4200 for my SS. That included the 3 hp saw, 36" T-Glide professional fence with rails, 36" extension table, an extra 10" blade cartridge (guaranteeing I’ll never set the thing off ;^D ), a dado cartridge, 2 extra inserts, a heavy duty mobile base and shipping from the dealer to my house, $175. He delivered it to the very spot in my shop where I wanted it. Since I live on the east coast the shipping from SawStop was $400.
The reason I bought it was my wife’s insistence. In 16 years I’ve had 2 accidents with the table saw and she said “there will NOT be a third. Can’t argue with that.
I started saving for it but changed jobs and sold back leave. It was enough to buy the saw.John White mentioned the blade first moves back a 1/4” and strikes the brake. That’s not how it works.
The blade doesn’t move at all. The cartridge fires the brake into the blade stopping it in 2-3 teeth. It will barley nick you skin. It then drops below the table. The unlatching of the motor and the rapid drop absorbs most of the inertia in the motor/blade.
Someone mentioned the cost of the cartridge. It only cost $69 for the 10” blade one and IIRC if you get a finger save the new cartridge is free. You send in your fired one and the read the data from the flash memory to see what happened and to improve the product.As to the saw itself…..I love it. What finely engineered piece of kit.Oh….and it’s powder coated gloss black. Very cool.
I tried to say, and maybe it wasn't clear, that the blade assembly moves back to clear the pawl after the brake is engaged.
John W.
Another question is how big a nick in the hotdog, finger etc is acceptable. Equal to the present, short of stiches, short of the bone, short of needing professional medical attention?
I honestly think that any time your hand contacts the blade, the cost is well worth it. You really can only guess what would have happened, so it would be difficult to say this system reduces a 10 stitch to a one stitch.
The real challenge that faces the system is eliminating false trips. User education is a big part, since you can not cut certain materials. I think if users didn't fear destroying a $100 blade + $80 cartridge unnecessarily...
In the end I really don't see this system as a 'field' tool. It's quickly loses it's attraction for users who recycle wood, or use 'wet' wood as might happen in the field. I see this as a shop tool, dried lumber etc. If I had one in my hobbyist shop I doubt that I'd even stock a replacement.
You can disable the feature for wet wood or conductive materials and you can test said materials without triggering the cartridge. For the other false trips it would not be so expensive if there was no blade or cartridge to replace.
I don't think the cabinet saw was envisioned as a field tool, but the forthcoming contractor model on the other hand..... You gotta wonder how it will do on the damp drizzly days we get in this neck of the woods when a saw is sitting outside a jobsite!------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
some of the personal accounts of the SS are that the blade, while missing a tooth or two, have been repairable. Granted this is hearsay, so I'll leave you to your own decisions.
It'd be interesting to hear how many of those people who find the cost / destruction of the blade have ever been cut by a tablesaw?
I have heard the same thing about some blades being recoverable, this leads me to believe it is possible to accomplish the mission at hand without expensive consumables.
You will get no argument from me in regards to the benefits being worth the cost, I just think it can be done better. If one can acheive the same objective at lower cost is this not a good thing? Would it not be more attractive to manufacturers and the public to have this safety and not be out of pocket $180 every time it trips?
I have my own reasons for not owning one but none of them are because I think its too expensive to save a digit or a hand.
It can be done better.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Don't think for a minute that WMH, Delta et. al. are not hard at work on a "better" way to do it. If you have an idea, that might be a good place to start. After your trip to the patent office, of course.As I am thinking about better ways to do this, I think ruining the blade is a trade-off for the reliability of the system. I would think that any system that "brakes" the blade, without stopping it cold, has too high a risk of failure to be viable. Not that a better way will never be found, there always is room for improvement. But you've got to be impressed with this as the first of its kind. I'll take the ruined blade.
I hope they are, in todays world they may be just plundering what they can without regard to the future of the company.
I would think the rubber might even stop the blade quicker due to a larger contact area and a greater coefficient of friction.
I am still not convinced that stopping the blade is necessary, but I could be wrong!------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
I don't really see the "fence as an option" to be weird at all. It enables you to customize the package. I wish that Grizzly saws were sold that way, because there is only one Shop Fox fence that I care for, and it doesn't come with all of the saws I might be interested in.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I liked having a fence as an option. Instead of "buying" the SS fence I bought an Incra. Not having the fence "added to the cost of the SS" actually saved me some money.
The rear bumper is optional on a lot of trucks, the reason being that people like to install various kinds of heavy-duty aftermarket bumpers equipped with hitches, winches, etc. This isn't a case of the manufacturer trying to nickel and dime you, but rather some consumers complaining that they had to pay for something that they were immediately going to take off and throw away.
-Steve
Dear FG,
The previous two postings are in line with what I have seen here in CT.
Best,
John
All of the prices are as is on the Sawstop website. I bought mine from Eastside Saw in Bellevue. 3hp Saw $2799, 36"fence $329 (unless you buy a different aftermarket fence), Ext table for 36" fence $79, extra brake cartridge $69, dado brake cartridge $89, and 2 inserts @ $29 plus I think $250 for the shipping charge (Sawstop to the store not your house) plus sales tax. Eastside Saw and Woodcraft should be identical in price. Something to consider is how you are going to get it home and unloaded this can add additional cost. Eastside saw had a deal with Budget rental for a truck with a lift gate that only cost $40 plus the gas used. All said and done it was just under $4000 (well worth it).
Charlie
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