Replies

1. 
   redplumjam | Nov 14, 2001 05:12pm | #1

   *
   mr a-

   depending on who i'm working with, i'll either bid a price at the beginning of a project, or for the more familiar trusting client that just keeps on giving, i'll do time + materials straight up.

   so then it goes- you'll have to do some overhead calculating, estimate a common expendables price, define a profit margin, and come up with a shop rate. i know it sucks, but it's true- you'll be more fair to yourself and your clients. everything you charge will be then substantiated, not loosely based on materials x whatever.

   what if you make a louis XVI chair out of cardboard?

   so think about what you'd be able to get by on in a day's work, or in the case of your bookshelves, a few hours' work. it'll do you some good.

   if you have more questions keep asking them. personally i like to hear what kim carleton graves has to say on this topic. he's so candid. do a search on this site for his ideas if you like.

   have fun

   alex

1. 
   ian_cummins | Nov 17, 2001 05:17am | #2

   *Why do you consider a bookcase made of soft maple to be low end work? I've found many pieces of soft maple with fiddleback and curly figure that were beautiful. If, as you say, you're capable of high end work, how do you lower your standards and use the slap dash approach you describe? Give the client your price to build the sweetest bookcase you can and if the client thinks it's too much, tell them to go to Big Bob's Unfinished Furniture Barn, 50% off this weekend only!

1. 
   Sgian_Dubh | Nov 25, 2001 06:29pm | #3

   *Maybe there is something useful in this old thread. Slainte, RJ.

1. 
   chris_gleason | Dec 08, 2001 05:57pm | #4

   *I agree with the gist of Alex's message-- basing estimates on materials costs (even loosely) scares the bejeezus out of me!I do jobs all the time where the materials are a small amount of the final price-- over the course of a year (many projects averaged together), my materials cost about 18%. But to even take that as a rule of thumb would be risky. I finished a job a couple of months ago that grossed $10,500 and the materials only cost me $886, well under 10%. Basically I started with materials that just weren't that expensive and put a TON of labor into the project and that is how it all ended up.To really prepare estimates fairly, for yourself and clients, you have to go through the time-consuming exercise of putting your operation under a microscope and examining how much it all really costs. This allows you to examine a shop rate, and then you can heave a sigh of relief when someone asks you for an estimate because you have a really good foundation of numbers to stand on.For hobbyists, I know that folks often take it more casually, and I'm a real live-and-let-live sort of guy, so I say whatever floats your boat. But if you're trying to make money in the long term, having a firm shop rate, and then applying it rigorously (no freebies, because then you water down the rate) will be critical to everything else you do. Best,Chris Gleason