I’m a beginner, building an armoire out of select pine. What width of boards can I biscuit together for the sides? If money doesn’t matter. How far apart, should you put the biscuits?
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Replies
I usually use 6-8 inch wide boards..mainly cause there appears to be a price break at that width. The biscuits are for alignment and not for strength in your construction...and usually put them about a foot or so apart ...hope that helps.
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it greatly. I'm excited to get started.
Squibby,
You certainly sound enthusiastic! At the risk of tampering with enthusiasm (I never want to do that), I suggest that you start with some less ambitious project as your initial one. You can still learn how to use your biscuit joiner for almost any kind of construction. By keeping initial projects small, you won't experience the frustration that can come from a large job, and learn the basics before tackling a big one.
Good luck!
Rich
Thanks, I appreciate the honesty. I'm actually not a beginner woodworker, but a first time for biscuit use. I just hate the thought of veneered plywood.
"I just hate the thought of veneered plywood. "
Hmmm. One person's like is another's nightmare. I'm about to tackle a huge kitchen cabinet project with lots of maple veneer hardwood plywood as a part of the construction. If at the end of the job, the responses to this "kitchen furniture" isn't "oohs and ahhs" I'll be disappointed.
Some of the world's most beautiful hardwood is only availble as veneered "plywood." Given the chance you could get to love it. Have fun.
Rich
I have always tended to be jealous of the "old school woodworkers" who had the pick of the litter when it came to nice solid, wide boards.
But if the general concesus is that veneered hardwood plywood is cool, then maybe I'll give it a try. Where do I get these pieces of wood. Home Depot just ain't cutting it!
Squibby,
I maintain good relations with 4 Woodworkers Warehouse and 2 Woodcraft stores to get the answers on where to buy good lumber or sheet goods. Where are you located?
Most lumber yards have various quality levels when it comes to sheet goods. Assuming your going to make the piece from a good wood, I'm sure you'll spend plenty between the sheet goods and hard woods.
I'm in Warren, Rhode Island. I have one of each of those stores within 25 minutes. I'll contact them. Thanks. $300 worth of wood compaired to $1,200 or so for the Pottery Barn version my wife wants ..................I get the green light to spend the money on the wood!!
Squibby, one easy want to make sure that your fence is square is to put your biscuit joiner on a flat surface, like a tablesaw, and then take a piece of mdf and place it under the fence. lower the fence down until in just touches and then make sure that the fence makes contact along it's entire length and width. if your biscuit joiner isn't accurate it can cause a lot of frustration.
john, as far as pine goes i didn't think that 7 rings per inch was a lot for old growth. I've got an old pine board sitting in my shop that's got around 50 per inch, and it's 17" wide. Now i need to think of something to make from it
andrew
7 per inch is their minimum, the sample I have has considerably more rings. If I can ever find it again I'll check. I was just amazed by a piece of pine that I could barely dent with my thumbnail. John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
Okay, time for step two of our education....
Your wife is getting a $1200 dollar piece of furniture. That's $1200 in wood...or $300 in wood plus a really nice tool for you...leave the empty box in the store...lol That is how we men with advanced degrees in husbandry organize our wood working projects. Currently, I'm working on a new table saw...er..I mean matching cherry corner cupboards for the dining room. good luck
BG
If you ever decide to run for president-you got my vote! You'd have the budget balanced in a month. Hey, you're my kind of candidate!
Thanks for the laugh..
Sarge.
Don't be put off from doing a difficult project as a begginner. My first piece was a Queen Anne Chair with cabriole legs. It came out HORRIBLE! Then again, I had alot of fun with it and learned from mistakes and at the time I thought it was really cool. I made it with a Buck knife and a spokeshave, sitting on a box in the kitchen. I used Poplar as it was cheap. Not only will I not post a picture of it, but it stays in a closet.
Frank
Wow...that really sounds like crap...need a table for it? got one, also poplar...lol
Biscardi:
I think you meant your comment to go to squibby. But, since you mentioned it; my wife told me to mention her $4000 poplar night-stand. I stained it mahogany and told her it's very expensive wood. She doesn't know the difference and it got those bonus tools BG mentioned! Sounds like between you, BG and myself we could publish our own magazine.. Poplar Woodworking..
Have a great day!
Sarge.
Squibby,
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Edited 8/7/2002 12:39:24 PM ET by J Fusco
You said you are a beginner at woodworking. Edge jointing solid boards can present problems you won't like if you don't know how to prevent them or what to do about them if and when they occur. A good book on jointery will help.
If I were you I'd buy a sheet of cabinet grade plywood of the same specie and grade of solid stock lumber you intend to use. Use this plywood for the large pieces that you would otherwise have to make up with jointed boards.
An armoire is a healthy project for a beginner! Good luck!
1. Make sure your biscuit joiner's fence/cutter is dead parallel to the surface.
2. Mark the face sides so you're always referencing to the 'show' side and the descrepancies in thickness will always be on the inside.
3. Biscuits are cheap, use the best - Lamellos. Porter Cable's are crap by comparison. Keep them in an airtight jar.
4. Prep your joints just as you would without biscuits, they won't help pull together a poor joint.
5. For edge joints I go about 10-12" centers, 3-4" from ends. For right angle edge joints (like your case side to face frame) I usually go 6-8" centers.
6. Dry fit and clamp.
7. Dry fit and clamp (it bears repeating)
7. I brush glue into the slots and coat both edges. I spritz the biscuits with water right before ####'y.
8. Clamp your glue-up panels with plenty of clamps, alternated top and bottom - I figure about a 60 degree pressure spread on clamps. Use cauls and clamps to keep the panel flat. Don't over tighten the clamps, just pull the panel together.
9. Forget about plywood for furniture, especially for yourself, your instincts are good, real furniture is is made out of real wood, but that's just me:) If you want pine and can handle the price, check out Goodwin Heartpine on the web. They have river recovered long leaf pine that was 500 years old when it was felled over 100 years ago. They'll send you a sample and you won't believe how hard and beautiful it is. They guarranty 7 growth rings per inch, verticle or flatsawn.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
"Forget about plywood for furniture . . . real furniture is is made out of real wood"
Okey doke. There's that dead horse again.
We're getting a little OT here . . .
Don't look now, but the use of veneering and high-quality plywood products has allowed the furniture industry to propsper, including fine furniture. Plywood, of course isn't for everything. It has it's place in the overall scheme. For instance, its use in frame and panel construction where solid wood of certain species is not available, is not only acceptable but desirable.
Rich
Yeow! I suppose there are still people who only save money in gold $20 coins, too! And, I wonder how many fine pieces of furniture we look at thinking they're all solid wood, when in fact they're plywood.
Actually, one of my first pieces was a teak amoire (sp?) with plywood panels. The veneer I found was gorgeous and not something I've ever been able to f ind in solids. The frame and panel method is so relatively easy that it came out well enough that it still sits in my living room. The most important point is to get your design right.
Use whatever you want; it's YOUR project.
Dave
The solid wood subject brings strong opinions from both sides. Thaught you may know a little about the expansion aspects of the solid wood we buy today and the recovered timber. Plywood is supposed to have eliminated this design quirk and there in lies its main benefit; correct?
I know, I know. I use plywood and even melamine when that's what the customer wants or is willing to pay for. For furniture that I make for myself/family which is a potential heirloom it's gonna be solid wood. John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
As a hobby, I am building the armoire as a family heirloom. So it doesn't matter how long it takes to make it. Believe me if I were being commissioned to make the piece, I'd lose my shirt. This way, (making a piece for my wife) I can take my time, screw up, fix it, keep going and when I'm done ....I'm done. My wife can brag.
Wow! Those are some great tips!
1.) How much is a spritz? ....Just before glue up?
2.) What is the 60 degree pressure spread on the clamps? Do you (Use a six foot bar clamp for glueing up four feet of boards?)
3.) Thanks so much for your opinion.
1. Wet but not dripping. You don't want to dilute the glue. The theory is that dry biscuits can suck too much moisture out of the glue and weaken/starve the joint. Also making them swell helps with alignment. It doesn't take long so I figure why not?
2. Picture a equilateral triangle centered on the clamp with the point towards you and the base parallel to the joint. It's a 60 degree triangle so you have 30 degrees to each side of the clamp. Space the clamps so that the joint line lays within adjacent triangles. Read this somewhere, can't remember where but it works for me.
3. You're welcome.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
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