I’m planning to make a bathroom sink out of plywood. I’ll glue 6 layers of 7-ply finishing plywood together, then carve out a shallow water basin. I would like the layers of the plywood to show as contour lines in the basin. THen I’ll water seal the entire thing.
Has anyone carved plywood????
Thanks for your time.
John
Baton Rouge, LA
Replies
I don't think you really want to carve it. You could make each piece like a donut with the inner hole becomming smaller and smaller until you are down to the size of the drain. The thinner the plywood the easier it will be to sand smooth. To speed the process you could set your sabre saw base to an angle that approximates the desired inside slope of the bowl.
I had considered that for a short while but I don't have a sabre saw...how is this different from a table saw? (I'm rather new to woodworking.) I thought the carving gouge might add a nice "hewn" character to it if I decided not to sand it down. Should I worry about any dried glue chipping the gouge?
John
If you really want to do it, I'd suggest you get your finish figured out first. figure on lots of water immersion with soap etc., etc,. Also, use baltic birch. Better water resistance when your finish fails. Work out your design and cut out rings of ply before you laminate with epoxy to eliminate lots of material removal later.
Good luck & please post a picture when you're finished.
Paul
As lots of people on this site will tell you, water and wood aren't good friends. You might consider using fiberglass as the finish. You'd carve the wood to the desired shape, and then cover it with a layer of fiberglass, done with a clear resin. I've seen this done on boats, and it works pretty well. The wood still is visible, but the fiberglass/resin layer is truly waterproof.
just an addition to you r post, i would suggest using just plain epoxy resin with no glass, i recommend West System rather than using a regular fibreglass resin
you'll want to use a right angle 4" grinder with a wood carving attachment such as the lancelot blade sold by woodcraft or woodworkers supply.. Wear haevy gloves and goggles because it is not pleasant work. If you're good with a chainsaw, you might want to make your initial roughout with a small chainsaw. After you have your rough shape, you will final size with abrasives. Glad it's not me doing this work. Good luck.
My original idea was to grind the wood away with an egg shaped rotary rasp attached to a rotozip like motor. But the largest rasp I could find is about 3/4 in long. This is very small to remove a lot of material with, hence the gouge chisel.
I'll look up on the web the grinder you mention. Thanks.
John
If you don't have a drill press, I think it would be worth quite a bit of effort to find one you can use. Then, with your own or somebody else's, hog out as much of the waste as you can with forstner bits.
The Abortech grinding wheel would be a good choice. This has three carbide disc's that do the cutting. I am unsure about the Lancelot wheel I think this is a chain cutter and may be to agressive on this project. As mentioned follow up with an abrasive disc.
http://www.arbortech.com.au/woodmain.html
Woodcraft carries them also.
Dale
Edited 2/20/2003 4:57:03 PM ET by timber
I'd like to add that the Arbortech is a very scary tool, and not one I'd recommend to a newbie. I swear by it for things like roughing out chair seats. It hogs out wood in great quantities and very quickly. But if it ever gets a good grip on a big hunk of wood, bad things are going to happen very quickly.
I see lots of posts advising you to get an arbortech or lancelot tool.... DON"T. Do you love your hands? DO cut the approximate shapes out before laminating. You can buy a real good sabre saw (jigsaw) for $100.00) less than you'd have to spend to get set up with an arbortech or lancelot or chainsaw setup. Then your wood removal will be about 85% complete before you even start in with your gouge. The plywood and it's glue lines will be hard on your gouge but carving gouges (good ones) are very tough tools. Resharpen when the cutting gets too slow or rough. I think that you will probably find that long-bent gouges will be the most useful for you on this project.... a couple of different sweeps/sizes will make life easier. You'll get some good practice in sharpening and learn lots of other good stuff from this project. DON"T use chainsaw, arbortech or lancelot type tools..... it's too hard a lesson to have to live the rest of your life with a maimed hand or missing fingers. PLEASE!!! Some of these guys in here are REAL EXPERTS (myself for instance) they MIGHT get away with using them....I can tell that you are not such an expert and I don't want to see you hurt. I won't use those tools myself.... the risk is greater than the reward. OOOPs.... sometimes I do use a chainsaw.... but you get my drift.
Edited 2/21/2003 1:28:20 AM ET by Clay
John,
Plywood? What sort of plywood? I believe the only plywood manufactured without voids on inner plys is marine plywood. To my knowledge, all other plywood has voids on inner plys which you would have to fill. Have you considered making your own plywood by laminating lumber together? That also introduces the possibility that you could precut the various layers to their approximate shape before laminating.
I'm in Baton Rouge as well. Small world.
I've own and have used the mentioned Lancelot tool. It's a piece of chainsaw chain on a 4" disc that mounts on a mini side grinder. It's undoubtly the most scary tool that I've ever used, but if used respectfully, I believe one can make a better than even gamble that they may keep most of their protrusions and organs intact. It would make quick work of the wood removal. Protrusions and organs too if control was lost.
Also a bowl makers adze might be a good choice tool for roughing in this job.
jdg
It's me again, the original poster. This list is very active and sticks to the point. I'm grateful. Thanks to your many replies. I have learned a lot about the possibilities. I already ordered the gouge before posting here so I'm going to give that I try. I do plan to purchase my water faucet and drain pipe so that I can plan ahead where on the plywood I'll drill-press my holes -- before gluing the whole mass together and clamping. I'm now worried about the hollow bits in the plywood, since I wont be using marine plywood. I'm going to use 7 layer, birch veneer finishing plywood. I may also buy a round wheel grinder, the kind with two wheels on each side of a motor to sharpen the gouge. (Everyone can tell I'm a newbie, I'm sure.) If I succed in this I'll post the pictures, including the stumps of fingers. Thanks again.
John
Baton Rouge
JDG,
Where in Baton Rouge do you think I could get some maritime plywood? I bet this stuff's expensive too.
Are you a woodworker?
THanks
John
Baton Rouge
In the Baton Rouge area, for marine plywood? I dunno. I'd guess
Service Lumber near Airline & I-10
Hardwood Sales in Zachary
maybe Ed Price Building Materials - Airline @ Tom Dr.
There are real woodworkers in this forum. I'm somewhat of a woodworker. With the company here, that's about as far as I feel I can take it. I have a few pics of some of my work in the Gallery section.
jdg
>> To my knowledge, all other plywood has voids on inner plys ...
Baltic birch ply is reputed to have no voids, or very, very few. I haven't worked with a lot of it, but what I have seen was void free. I just assumed this is what John was planning to use.
John, this is a really bad idea. Plywood and water will never mix and no finish could ever keep them apart for very long. Stacked plywood furniture has been around for a quarter of a century. The first to really put it out there was Wendall Castle. It bombed. It bombed not because it didn't look cool, it bombed because it failed structually. The veneers all move against each other and no matter how smooth it was when it left the shop the surfaces were as rough as cobbs after the humidity bounced around a bit.
I'd suggest you try this stacked plywood thing on something else and see how you like it. See how it works before you commit yourself to a sink.
Lee
Furniture Carver
Lee
Very nice work, a great web site also. I am also a Furnituremaker and Woodcarver myself. In the last few years I have become more involved with the carving alone. There is something about carving that is so addictive. I don't do a whole lot of 18th century but I sure would like to get more involved with some carving's of the type done by Wendell Castle. The first time I saw the gloves and key's table I must have stared at for an hour Ghost Clock also got a great deal of attention from me.
Take Care
Dale
Thanks Dale,
I think I've been around as long as Wendall has but he has gone places few of us have dared to go. I like some of his stuff, am apalled at some of it, too.
I thought the stacked plywood stuff looked really cool so I played with it a bit, ummm, musta been back in the 70's. I discovered what Wendall discovered... it does not fly, it looks cool but does not fly.
LeeLee Grindinger
Furniture Carver
Lee,
You have a great website. I read for the first time FWW issue #143 and your very informative article about carving simple moldings. Do you have anymore articles in FWW? Thanks for the information.
Lar
Thanks Lar. I penned (computered?) an article about air drying lumber that appeared in #151, October, 2001. Jeez, I've been slacking, I'd better do some more writing...
Lee Lee Grindinger
Furniture Carver
My girlfriend suggested a ceramic "thrown" basin instead of wood for the sink. This ceramic basin will sit atop a 3 inch high block of BBP....I compromized. We know a potter who can throw the pot.
John
John --
Ah, a thrown vessel will be much less work, and will only be dangerous to your pocketbook!
You might consider adding a sheet of glass between the pottery and the wood. It will be waterproof, easily cleaned, and will look kinda high-tech like the baltic birch.
Jamie
>> Plywood and water will never mix and no finish could ever keep them apart for very long.
People have been making boats out of plywood for many years, and continue to do so today. Maybe there are some finishes that will allow plywood and water to coexist.
I think you are correct about that. I just recalled Norm's boat the he built a few years back. Maybe a search at the new yankee site will provide more info. He also used the fiberglass cloth that seemed to disappear after it use coated with the resin. This sink project may have a good chance of coming to life.
Dale
It's me ... original poster. The link to the site of wooden bathtubs and sinks, etc was fantastic. Thanks. After seeing the tub I wanted to tell the group that the bathtub I'm buying I found at a garden nursery in town. It's a ceramic glazed (fired) 28 inch diameter pot that sits about 16 inches high. This pot is going to be the shower basin in a small bathroom. The pot is glazed dark-deep red with irridescent black drips of glazing from the top lip. Beautiful! Next to this tub will be my plywood sink---coated with waterproof material. The floor and halfway up the walls will be blue-slate tiles on which the red ceramic pot will sit. The rest of the wall up to the ceiling and including the cieling is naturally aged (dark) pine planks that were used to make this 50+ year old house. I'll post pictures when done! One last question....I need a paint stripper!!!! I used a blow torch but I'm scorching the wood more than I want.
Thanks!
John
get a good heat gun, Lee Valleys Tools has an industrial one
try http://www.leevalley.com or just do a search using leevalley
John:
I hate to think of someone who is new to woodworking taking on such a daunting task. What you are proposing is a project which, in my humble opinion, is a bit beyond what most experienced woodworkers would consider a troublesome project. Unless you have seen one of these projects and have some idea how it will look-especially after some use- I am afraid you may be disappointed with the results. Having said that -- I wish you the best of luck and would like to hear of your progress.
JB
BBP has no voids. It's not waterproof.
One should be sure to have "replacement coverage of contents" insurance before installing a wooden sink.
I'm not sure of your definition of 'waterproof' for BBP, but I do use BBP for the blades of the bent-shaft canoe paddles I make. Only two coats of varnish for protection & never a failure to what I would consider lack of waterproofness. Some of my paddles are still going after 10 years of use.
My blades are made from 1/2" BBP tapered out to 1/8" at the edges & ends, so the tapered plies are feathered out to nothing. Some minor surface checking in exposed plys, but never delamination.
We may be debating semantics here:-) , perhaps even marine plywood is not considered waterproof. My understanding is that the only difference between marine plywood & exterior plywood is the lack of internal voids in the marine. The glue is the same.
Paul
Paul, i'm going by what the distributor told me when i wanted to use some BBP for exterior trim on my house. If you are making canoe paddles of it, then i can't argue with success, but you could make boats out of oatmeal if you had enough coats of epoxy over it. Your paddles are relying on the finish to sustain the core material. Not ony that, but a canoe paddle doen't have to contend with hot water and detergents as a sink does.
Here's one of a few comments i found when i googled <baltic birch plywood waterproof>:
From http://www.windsorplywood.com/plywoods_q.html:
I checked Montana Wood Lettering, Inc. and they said their BBP letters were warrranted only for interior use.
I've seen folks make sinks and tubs out of wood. After a short amount of time, the finish is scratched and cloudy or the surface has checked and let the underneath wood turn black--they were just nasty. As inexperienced as this poster is (not a slam, just an observation), i would be less inclined to think it would turn out well.
Did anyone ever hear back from the guy who was going to make the wooden faucet, posted drawings and everything? I wonder how that came out.
Edited 2/23/2003 11:59:38 AM ET by SPLINTIE
Many of the WWII DDay landing craft were plywood. Marine plywood is intended for boatmaking uses. Baltic birch is a much better choice for the sink project than any standard plywood. Marine plywood would be a high-quality choice but the sticker shock there will be extreme ... use the baltic birch. In addition to having no voids it uses thinner plys in greater numbers than ordinary plywood. It's a different (better) animal. One of my boatbuilding books has a mention in it of a test the author did where he steamed solid white oak and plywood pieces for many days. Ultimately the oak steamed to mush before the top grade of marine plywood delaminated.
Slightly related, John. These wooden bathroom fitments might be worth a look for inspiration. There are more makers of such stuff (I think) out there. Slainte.
Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Wow Richard - those are some interesting bath fixtures.
John, here's another consideration.
I have a wooden vanity top - not basin - in my bath. I was careful to have the painters put several coats (like maybe 8) of varnish on it when we built the house. I checked every coat and was pleased and convinced that it was a good job, and five years of use has mostly confirmed that.
However...
House keepers and house sitters apparently don't respect my woodwork and varnish finishes as much as I do. And after many years of observation, and much to my chigrin, I find that I too am capable of accidents. There are a few very little dings from putting heavy or pointed things down on it or dropping things or what ever. The wood being softer than these dropped items gives a little making a dent and breaching the once totally waterproof finish. Then over time, the moisture works on the wood through that breach creating a softer bleached out place and furthering the damage to both the wood and the finish.
I think it would be virtually impossible to prevent this type of damage in the long run.
jdg
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