Some years ago I saw some 19th century cabinets that had a very beautiful joint for the drawers. Instead of dovetails, it was a series of half circles cut in the drawer side that are let into the drawer face. Then theres a pin of contrasting wood in the center. I’m interested in replicating this joint and thought someone might be familiar with its name and the best method for cutting it.
Sasha
Replies
This joint is explored in a past FFW, I can't remember when.
Tom
It's called a Knapp joint or pin and crescent. Not an easy joint to make. Saw an article somewhere using a plug cutter and some other devices but can't recall which magazine. Also there is a machine at WoodWorkers Supply that has templates to cut this joint.
Pin and cresent.
This is a jig cut joint. Woodworker's Supply has the jig you need.
Actually it's a whole machine
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=878-561
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=95-201
OOPs, just realized you have to have the whole machine, can't just use the template. I'll need to find a less expensive solution, but maybe I can rig something up now that I have seen how its done on the machine.
Like I said before there was an article somewhere showing how to do it with a plug cutter and a fancy indexing fixture they made up. An Incra jig or something similar would be half the battle for the indexing part. Then you would need to rout the mating part and index for the holes. It would be far simpler, cheaper and less frustrating to just buy the machine at WoodWorkers Supply and you would have a horizotal slot mortiser as well.
In case you or others are interested, the article appeared in 1986. Have to dust that issue off ;-) Once I knew the name of the joint I googled to this article giving the jist of the process you mentioned and history of the joint.
http://www.cpfmg.org/Articles/The_Knapp_Joint.html
Glad you were able to track it down.
A Less expenxive solution... Hand Cut, perhaps. That is cheap and FUN
DEREK
Looks like to me you can cut either the large joint or the small joint for about a $100 bucks. That's a small investment by today's standards. You're buying a template and a bit or two. Seems reasonable to me.
The template is for the matchmaker machine which is $752 plus shipping nto to mention the template $74. You can't just use a guide bushing and the template to wing it. It uses a pin guide to follow the template. With a bit of creativity you could pattern a duplicator of sorts based on a router duplicator.
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=95-201
Sounds like time for dovetails.
Thanks for the tip. Really appreciate it Sasha
Thanks for the tip. Actually I think I saw that machine at a show, but they didn't demo the joint. I think I will take the template approach. Again, appreciate the tip - Sasha
There was a PBS station WWing show hosted by Scott Phillips called (as I remember)"American Woodshop" On one episode he made a trip to Pat Warner's shop. There Pat made a humidor that sported a joint much like what you are looking for, using a series of shop made plexiglas templates.
For the small center pins, he router plunged a hole and glued a in a dowel pin.
Pat Warner has authored several books on using the router, the templates are described in one of them, which one I am not sure of.
Thats the best tip of the lot I got. I'd given up on using that joint because of the expense of the tool. I'll look for the Warner books.
Thanks Alan
In the response I previously posted about the decorative scallop/pin joint templates; the author could have been Patrick Speilman.
This joint is only worth making if you are using it for a visual detail, it has very little added strength compared to a simple rabbetted joint held together by the same size and spacing of the dowels. This was originally a joint used primarily for inexpensive mass produced furniture a hundred or more years ago, it was rarely used for custom cabinetmaking.
John W.
I like it for decorative reasons. Its different and dovetails are so commonplace no one notices. I appreciate the warning, but if I can figure an economical way to use this joint I will probably take the risk on a future project
Go for it! the drawer sides can be cut if ya good with a scroll saw!EDIT:: Or go back in time and be a apprentice for about half you life...
Edited 8/17/2005 1:36 pm ET by WillGeorge
I've read all the posts - very interesting.
As I read the link on the joint origin, I thought that the scallop treatment of the drawer sides would be a pain. The scallop on the front is created by the plug cutter, so no big deal. . .
Then, I thought if one were to make the pin cuts with the plug cutter, then send the drawer front through the table saw in a tennoning jig to remove the scallops from the drawer face; the mating piece could be all "machine made", too.
One would have to make sure the pin diamters and plug cutter "wall thickness" were such that the scallop tips did not intrude down into the space between the pins, but I may give this a try to see how it looks.
I can't say I can follow this procedure. I don't see how the drawer side is machined in this scenario. Please say more.
Please see attached.
I guess I understand the sideways looks from some of the other posters. We are trying to figure out a way to re-create the look of a mass produced / machine made joint.
A funny parallel would be if, 100 years from now, people were tying to re-create the look of particle board for a piece of "late 20th/early 21st century" furniture they were building out of who knows what material. . . .
I still think it is an interesting looking joint.
jhausch,
If you are going to all this trouble, why not rabbet the corner together, then drill holes and use dowels for the pins, after assembly? No worries matching the spacing of pins and holes, can get creative in spacing if you want to; matching wood species of dowel and drawer front or contrasting dowels, etc.
Regards,
Ray
That would work, too (and the alignment would be guaranteed!).
Just thinking out loud with my previous post. . . .
15 years later and now this could be done pretty easily with a Shaper Origin and a bit of chisel clean up. Granted it's a pricey machine but it can be made to do so many things.
I think on another woodworking magazine site there was an article about this recently, like within the last year. Megan-somebody wrote it.
Megan Fitzpatrick wrote it, and it was right here on Fine Woodworking.
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2018/09/26/history-cove-pin-joint
Sorry for the confusion. I meant this Shaper Origin, handheld CNC router: https://www.shapertools.com/en-us/
Check out a video by pask makes her made it and made all the tools to do it to
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