Replies

1. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 12, 2005 06:10pm | #1

   The PM 66 is supposed to be at the top of the TS heap -- until you move into the more expensive European saws that are now becoming more widely available.

   I ran a Unisaw without incident for 25 years, and in a fit of tool mania, sold it and bought a PM 66 three years ago.

   From the beginning, the motor didn't seem right. The PM people said there was probably dust in the mag switch, and I should blow it out, which I did.

   This occurred maybe every six months, and just recently the motor screeched and completely burned out.

   PM said they were sorry ("this happens sometimes"), and they would be pleased to sell me a new motor for $420 plus shipping. I worked the phones, and finally found someone up the chain who would give me a new motor for $200, and they would pay shipping.

   I was still angry, but time was not on my side, so I said ok.

   I still think it was a defective motor from the gitgo, and they should have given me a replacement. So as you might imagine, I am not singing the praises of the customer service function of the WMH Tool Group these days.

   As far as overall performance is concerned, I see absolutely no difference between the machine and my old Unisaw. I should have saved my money, and a lot of hassle, and kept the old machine.

1. 
   Timberwerks | Feb 12, 2005 06:50pm | #2

   Thanks for the reply. Was that a Baldor or Leeson motor? My last saw was a Jet that worked very well but I fiqure moving into a new shop I'd like to get a couple new tools as well. I've always wanted a PM 66. How was arbor run out and table flatness?

   Dale

1. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 13, 2005 01:33am | #3

   Motor was a 3hp Baldor.I never did any measuring for table flatness, since I think that is a nonissue for woodworking, unless it is seriously warped -- which mine wasn't. However, the wings were not lined up, and I had to fiddle with that. More seriously, the left side mitre slot somehow got screwed up in the machining process. I would guess I had to spend 2-3 hours over several sessions to widen it out so the bar on my mitre gauge would pass through without sticking. These things are built like a tank; and all that cast iron is supposed to cut way down on vibration, which I suppose it does. But the new PM 66 doesn't vibrate any less than my old Unisaw.If I were doing it again, I would look a whole lot more closely at some of these European TS's that are coming down the pike. Generally it seems the portable power tools coming out of Europe these days -- e.g. Festool, Metabo, Fein -- are a quantum leap above the stuff we're getting from American brands in terms of quality. And I am now wondering if the same might be true for the stationary tools. I didn't do this exploration at the time, mainly because Garrett Wade had just announced they were no longer going to handle the Inca line. I have two of these machines sitting in my shop (and both are really first rate). For now, GW says they will continue to stock parts --but that experience made me leery of adding more European stuff to the inventory. So I decided that Powermatic was the best of the tried and true. When the motor went south, at least I could get a replacement -- and I don't know how long that would be the case for either of the Incas, or any of the other European imports.

1. 
   PhillipB | Feb 14, 2005 01:10am | #6

   " ... the Inca line. I have two of these machines sitting in my shop (and both are really first rate). "Amen! to first rate. Which INCA's do you have? I have the 710 BS and have no complaints save for the poorly cast lateral roller-guide bearing fixtures. Neither pair of lateral thrust bearings are ever parallel to the BS blade. They're close, but no cigar. I once tried to "adjust' one of them and ended up calling GW for a replacement. I will admit, however, that this BS cuts wonderfully when mated to a Wood Slicer from Highland Hardware. Smaller blades work OK save for the fact that, for the most part, all you can purchase are blades of 105-inches in length. Lee Valley is the one exception (to my knowledge). Their Swedish blades (used to be Timber Wolf brand) definitely do come in the 104 1/4-inch configuration. I'm embarrassed to admit that I have had this BS for about 8-9 years, use it very frequently and still do not need fresh tires. Or roller guide bearings, for that matter. I am meticulous in my maintenance on this machine, so perhaps that is the trick. Not certain. "When the motor went south, at least I could get a replacement -- and I don't know how long that would be the case for either of the Incas, ... "I purchased my BS without a motor because I could get a 1 1/2 HP Baldor for about half of what GW wanted. I do have electrical experience which does make a difference on occasion. I run it on 220V. So I am not certain that you would have to purchase a motor from GW unless there is something unique about your motor(s) which does not make sense from a manufacturing point of view: why re-invent the wheel when you can just go out and buy 'um. I hope this is not the case.Regards,
   Phillip

1. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 14, 2005 10:31am | #8

   I have the 10" bandsaw -- direct drive. Had it some 15 years, and never so much as a whisper of a problem. I also have one of those big Lagunas, and about the only thing I use it for is resawing. the Inca is always the one I turn to first.I also have the 570 planer/jointer -- same vintage. That one is used constantly -- almost every day -- and it has never even hiccupped. I keep a portable planer around for nasty stuff, but I would be lost without the Inca.

2. 
   Vertigo | Mar 04, 2005 08:50pm | #9

   You would think after a few hundred thousand PM66's come off the line that they would catch the left miter slot issue.

   For years and years, and apparently still happening the left miter slot is milled incorrectly. I had mine re-machined. It was tighter in the front by about .005

2. 
   WillGeorge | Mar 05, 2005 02:27am | #11

   I was still angry, but time was not on my side, so I said ok.

   What they were hoping for?

   PM66's  Just like the others.. Get away with what they can.. You order it and you REALLY want it SO>>>> You get what they ship and they think you happy!!

   Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaah..

    

   Edited 3/4/2005 6:30 pm ET by Will George

2. 
   JMartinsky | Feb 13, 2005 05:28am | #4

   I've got a 5 hp PM66 that I bought three years ago. Great machine. I use it commercially and it is very nice to work on. Powerful & smooth. I have a buddy's Unisaw in the shop also that I use as an outfeed table. The fit and finish are obviously much better on the PM, although it probably is a good saw. If I had to do it again, I would take a hard look at the SAWSTOP and Bridgewood, before spending the $ on the PM. Don't get me wrong, this is an excellent machine, but it's worth it to compare.

   Good Luck!

   John

3. 
   jc21 | Feb 13, 2005 10:58pm | #5

   I've used both the 66 and the Uni in shops I've worked at in years past- both were good saws. The 66's seemed a bit smoother and an ancient Walker-Turner superior to either. The newest X5 Uni's have switched to a Brazilian made WEG motor. Powermatic used to have their own foundry and made their own castings using the Meehanite process which were then "normalized" or aged before machining. I'm not sure where PM gets their castings now. I think both are still fine saws but if I was in the PM 66's price range, the General 350/650 would be my first choice. The cabinet looks to be heavier gauge steel, a beefy trunion, the cast iron extention wings are factory mounted and dead flush even on every example I've seen.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/13/2005 3:14 pm ET by jc

1. 
   JMartinsky | Feb 14, 2005 02:16am | #7

   I always forget about General, perhaps because I have never seen one. They do enjoy a stellar reputation, however, and I wouldn't hesitate to go with one.John

4. 
   DJK | Mar 05, 2005 01:36am | #10

   Save your money and look for a used saw. I'm currently running three unisaws and a pm66. All purchased used and total less than a new pm66. The pm66 sat in the corner unused for a few years. Finally dusted it off and used it for a couple of cuts last week. Prefer the unisaw. I'll save the pm66 for my seven year old daughter when she is in middle school wood shop.

   DJK

5. 
   user-343246 | Mar 08, 2005 03:07am | #12

   I heard from the local distributor that they used to put a $200+ on/off switch on the PM66.  They've downgraded that to a $50 switch.  The mba's have earned their $150 bonus per machine!

1. 
   Vertigo | Mar 09, 2005 02:06am | #13

   Can't say either way as I have not noticed the switch issue, but if I were looking for a new TS the PM66 would not be in the running.

   Either a Unisaw or 350 or Laguna TSS, maybe even the Felder.

1. 
   jaypoe | Mar 09, 2005 05:02am | #14

   I just bought the PM66. Havent cut on it yet but I am sure I bought a good saw. The deals that Delta have on there unisaws make it very hard to justify the $300+ premium of a PM. My three top choices (new) where the Uni, General and PM. Not in that order, obviously.