I have a 10 year old Campbell Hausefeld $199 HVLP sprayer which basically works, but is noisy like a vacuum cleaner and the hose pops off the back of the blower unit since the air gets hot and the hose expands. I have been thinking about getting an upgraded one such as one of the Fuji or Fiji units in the Woodworker’s supply catalogue. What advantage would a “better” unit offer? Would there be a more even spray application? Quieter? More adjustable ? I spray mostly shellac, some waterborne finishes. No lacquer since no spray booth. Mostly I spray outdoors under my deck, on a drop cloth plastic sheet. Any advice appreciated.
Jay
Replies
As far as the turbine is concerned the more powerful it is the heavier finish you can apply. I have a Fuji 4 stage and need all the power it has to spray heavy finishes, like oil based and latex paint. If your shellac is thin enough you can spray with darn near anything. Waterbased finishes vary but most I have seen are somewhat thick and need more power. The other half of the equasion is the gun. There is not a lot of options for turbine style guns, but a better gun will atomise more effeciently and be more adjustable; and of course will be made better.
Mike
If you haven't already, you might want to check out one of these websites:
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com
or
http://www.compliantspraysystems.com
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
A 3 or 4 stage will also run cooler.
If your CH was a car it would probably be a Ford model A. There are good guns available at a fair price. Homestead would be a good place to start.
Brian
Have you considered a "conversion" gun. These are stilled HVLP but are driven by a compatible compressor--one that supplies sufficient cfm. I have Devilbiss Excel guns (a new product of their's last year) in both a gravity and remote pressure pot configuration. The remote gives me a gun without a cup for the least size for spraying inside cabinets, et cetera. The system easily handles all materials from latex to lacquer just by changing the needle and cap orifice.
I've applied a product from Sherwin Williams called "ProClassic", a waterborne, acrylic gloss enamel that levels like an oil-based. I did add a conditioner to facilitate the whole process, too.
I also do so tricks with the air supply: water trap at the compressor and another trap at a 10 gallon tank in my spray booth that's connected in series with the compressor. This second tank insures good cfm over a long distance from the compressor. Otherwise, be aware of your hose diameter versus its length if you go this route.
Lastly, see FWW March/April 2004 for an article about "Spraying Basics" that also discusses choosing a gun, written by Jeff Hewitt.
Pascanale
I do have a compressor, but am doing this at home as a serious amateur. I have no spray booth so I don't do lacquer. I do shellac outdoors for ventilation. I could go with the conversion gun, but doesn't it use so much air that it would make an 11 gallon compressor cyle on constantly? I was trying to reduce noise, and the compressor is also a low end model that is very noisy.
By the way, what is the price range on the gun you mention? I hav seen similar conversion guns in the Harbor Freight catalogue. Sometimes what they sell is Chinese made junk, but sometimes I have been pleasantly surprised by their products. Anyone have experience with the guns in their catalogue?
Thans a lot.
Jay
Jay,
The Devilbiss guns I use are rediculously expensive--they saw me coming apparently. However, very high quality (solid stainless and anodized aluminum). Yet, there are other options, Porter Cable has a gun, I also have a Sears gravity cup and there's others now in catalogs which have reasonable prices. SATA is an attractive name to me looking at their products but I don't know anything else about them.
As for the compressor, when you said "Campbell-Hausfeld", I thought you were only refering to the gun. My compressor is not large but that's why I mentioned the extra tank I employ in series with a second hose and a second water trap. This arrangement does several things:
1)The main NOISEY compressor is in another room and yes, it does cycle a lot but never a problem because...
2) The second tank is downstream from the tank acting as a plenum chamber. It stores air for me within feet of the gun. I have a "Y" connection at that tank with one hose going to the compressor and a second coiling hose to the gun or remote pressure pot. Regardless of my needs this tank provides a constant delivery of air in spite of the cycling of the compressor.
As for the spray booth. See the article in FWW that Jeff Jewett wrote called "Spraying Basics" in 2004. I construct a knock-down out of foil covered polyisocyanurate insolation board and duct tape. I have a "whole-house attic fan" in a box that I got from Home Depot. The whole arrangement I can set up either in the garage or my shop's patio door in minutes.
Hope that helps.
Pascanale
I think that since it takes me a year or two to finish a large project, working on weekends (an hour here and an hour there), I do finishing in spurts, infrequently. I'd be inclined to get a better HVLP turbine and gun,than to try to set up something as complicated and I assume space occupying, as you have. I don't even know where you would get a secondary tank or how you would connect it so that the compressor would fill it under pressure. Just for my curiousity, could you by any chance list your other supply sources and possibly even upload a photo of the setup? Thanks a lot.
Jay
Jay,
I'd be happy to oblige. The all of the following mentioned set-up equipment is available from auto parts stores and Sears Hardware stores off-the-shelf. And, space is not an issue if you can accomodate this 10 gallon tank (approximately 30" x 18"). The spray booth is 3 sheets of 4x8 1/2" foil-backed poly-iso insulation board that is set up in a three sided open box and a drop cloth on the ground.
I'm using a 10 gallon portable air tank that service stations would use for filling tires. It has a gauge on it and and a short hose with a standard air chuck for filling tires. I remove this hose and replace it with standard quick-connect air fittings.
Then, I buy a "Y" connector that actually allows 3 air tools to run off a single hose. You'll need three female quick-connect fittings, or two and a plug, plus a single male that will plug into this remote tank.
Next, and most important but simple, I need a male-male quick-connect. These don't exist as such, so just get one each male with female and male NPT threads and screw one into the other. This little connection allows you to connect the female (output) end of the hose from the compressor into the female output of the tank to fill it or, into a female output on the "Y" which, in turn, is connected to the tank and the other hose going to the gun or other tool(s).
Water traps are a must and I have installed one with again, these quick-connect fittings so I can quickly set this up and tear down--one male and one female connector again. I"ve done the same with my disposable air filter canisters, too. Again, once the quick-connect fittings are on, you can build any type of circuit for all your tools and guns.
Short of an actual photo (attached), the arrangement is simply:
- Compressor to long hose (use 3/8" not 1/4" ID hose if possible, required if 50 feet long)-long hose into one of the 2-3 females on the "Y".
- The "Y" is plugged into the tank.
- Connect your water trap, air filter,l hose then you air tool/gun to another female fitting on the "Y".
Once you own one of these tanks, and have the little male-male adapter to fill it rapidly, you'll marvel at the convenience of this portable arrangement. I use this tank not only for the obvious filling of tires (cars, motorcyles, bikes) but also to run my air nailers on small jobs where I don't need to be nailing for hours. After adding the quick-connect to it you can use any tool with it very easily. You are limited only by the tool's air volume it consumes, not the pressure since the tank is rated higher than any tool I use. For instance, my air-driven impact wrench will immediately consume the air in the tank trying to take the lug nuts off a car or truck. But, I can use my finish nail guns and shoot 50-100 nails.
The tank is only really necessary if your compressor is below required cfm for the HVLP gun you use. My compressor (SEARS) delivers 8cfm at 40psi. I still use the tank just for the added buffer of air volume and the quiet of the compressor being elsewhere.
REMEMBER-and you'll quickly learn this on your own: Male fittings don't have the automatic shut-off valve, only the females do. So, when you've filled the tank disconnecting the fittings should be done only after you've turned off the tank valve so it doesn't discharge while you're disconnecting the hose and adapter. I turn off the tank, disconnect the hose from the compressor, then disconnect the hose and male-male adapter from the tank.
At this juncture, I think you're left with the conundrum of the prices for the gun-turbine versus this "upgrade" to your compressor. Who knows, maybe your existing gun still is adequate with a change in the needle and orifice. Didn't this whole conversation start with something to do with suspected orange peel? That's caused by an inability to atomize the paint and/or the paint is too thick. Whatever gun you get, be sure you have 3 needle/orifice combos, too. Then, you'll cover everything from stain (water-thin) to latex (very thick).
Oh, I'm sorry to say, clicking on "Attach Files" did nothing so, there isn't a photo for you. I'll try again in a new message.
Hope this helps,
Pascanale
Check the Grainger's web site for air storage tanks. I purchased one that had two separate threaded connections, so one is the intake from my pancake compressor and the other is the outlet to my spray gun. And yes, I am using an Asturo HVLP spray gun from http://www.homesteadfinishing.com with my very small pancake air compressor, basically designed for a single nail gun.Homestead Finishing carries several different manufacturers of HVLP spray guns, to fit different budgets, spray needs, ... The one Jeff recommended to me was expensive, but required the least volume of air (measured in CFM) so I didn't have to buy a larger compressor (for which I did not have room). Turbines run hotter, I think, which can cause a finish to flash over too quickly? Some people prefer turbines, others spray guns. Personal preference to some extent.Regarding a spray booth, why would lacquer require a spray booth and shellac not, unless you are spraying Target's water based shellac. Spraying traditional shellac about as hazardous as spraying solvent based lacquer I would think. The knock down spray booth described in earlier post requires essentially no space when stored, and no additional space in use than the spraying itself requires. It won't however make traditional shellac and solvent lacquer as safe as water based finishes. You might consider trying some of the water based finishes carried by Homestead Finishing and others - the performance is very good if not quite as good as solvent finishes. My two cents. Good luck.
Mainly my concern is that of the extreme toxicity (carcinogenicity and neurotoxicity) of lacquer thinner, compared to alcohol. Also, I understand it is so explosive that even a standard light bulb can ignite it and that special sealed light fixtures are required for lacquer. Perhaps i could do it outdoors as with the shellac.
Jay
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