Replies

1. 
   BruceS | Dec 21, 2006 04:54am | #1

   Sorry but I'am not a fan of tinting or dying a finish coat.  Ever try to repair a tinted or dyed finish.   Your better off dying or staining the lumber and then apply the finish.  Just my thoughts.

   Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

2. 
   mudman | Dec 21, 2006 05:45am | #2

   I agree shading lacquers and the like obscure the grain. It is better to stain the wood. It sounds like you made the process over complicated. The usual proceedure for your type of project is to Spray lacquer only. First a thin coat which would be sanded smooth, the stain is normally added to this coat if not applied first. Then 2 or 3 more coats.

   I am not sure why you lacquered then sealed then lacquered again.

   Would you care to elaborate on your problems with spraying?

   To answer your question there are many combination varnish/stain products at Home Depot. They brush on like any varnish. You can also mix most oil based stains with most varnish. Always test first. Your results using these products will not be very inspiring. Sealing, grian filling, staining, top coating with a clear gloss finish, then sanding and polishing untill you reach the desired sheen will look a lot better.

    

   Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

1. 
   dlb | Dec 21, 2006 04:44pm | #5

   Thanks for the reply. The enacted method comes from a friend who has been a professional furniture refinisher for the past 12 years. His philosophy is that the original clear coat seals the wood thereby preventing penetration. By mixing the colorant w/ the next coat you can better control the degree of color AND if repairs are needed you do not need to take the finish down to the wood. Then the top coat for protections.

   The part of spraying that causes me the greatest discomfort is applications inside of the cabinet, small vertical surfaces. These are the two main problem areas for me. I understand a few of the finer points of spray application (via a friend who sells spray booths and spraying equipment and from a few previous jobs) but I think that I have a greater appreciation for a finish applied by brush/rag. Sounds like it may be a control issue.

   So there you have it. Last evening I was reading several books on finishing 18th century furniture and the stated that the colorant was applied to the wood then a finish after that. I most likely will give that a try.

   Thanks again,

   dlb

   .

    The undisciplined life is not worth examining.

2. 
   dlb | Dec 21, 2006 04:54pm | #6

   Another question for you: If you stain the wood first, as you said, the how do you handle those areas where you applied a filler, wiped away glue, or patched a spot?  I believe that the stain will not look the same as it does when applied to the stock. (By applying a sealer first then then colorant (in a solvent), those areas mentioned above will look just like the stock.) 

   Thanks,

   dlb

   .

    The undisciplined life is not worth examining.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 21, 2006 08:36pm | #7

   Proper preparation is necessary for a good looking finish.  Filler, if needed should be applied AFTER stain and at least one layer of the top coat--thats about the only way you can get a good match.  Similarly, if you wipe away glue the surface needs to be sanded so that no light glue stain is left.  Done correctly stain will take on that area the same as all the rest. 

   It is true that using a toned finish may hide those defects, but if it can do that it also hides much of the beauty of the wood.  Hiding defects with finish is for factories, not for hobbiest furniture makers. 

1. 
   dlb | Dec 21, 2006 10:14pm | #8

   Well, ....  I do make a few mistakes but I try not to. But just in case, I needed to understand how to address those issues prior to making any decisions about changing how I finish wood.

   I do understand your statement though & I do strive for perfection.

   Thanks,

   dlb

   .

    The undisciplined life is not worth examining.

3. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 21, 2006 06:44am | #3

   I'm going to lean with Bruce.  While there are certainly applications where a toner (ie. tinted finish over an already sealed surface) are useful, its more for special situations or production operations.  It's a lot easier to dye, or stain the bare wood, or very lightly wash coated wood in the case of "blotchy" varieties than it is to spray a toner for the primary coloration.  This stain or dye can be quite satisfactorily applied by hand.  

   But, I think that spraying is about the only way to get the even application needing for attractive toned finishes.  This is aided by confining toner to its best uses as providing subtle depth or shift in color.  That way any one coat of the tinted finish will make only a small change and errors balance out over multiple coats.  With a toner the idea is to creap up to the desired color.   

   As an extreme example, Minwax makes possibly the worst finishing product on the market in Polyshades, which is a toned finish, and which periodically generates some of the most anquished questions asking how to fix the disaster that has just befallen the Polyshades user.  

    

4. 
   bigfootnampa | Dec 21, 2006 07:58am | #4

   Well I use tinted topcoats on nearly every finish.  There is no way that anyone can acheive the complex looks that I do without them.  Many of the great master oil painters worked in this way.  Straight stain and clear finish is simple... it can look nice but is pretty limited in variety and very dependent on the wood for a quality look.  Most people are looking for somewhat more complex finishes nowadays.  They want glazes or staining and tinted coats, or rub-throughs/distressing, etcetera.  

   You can get the effects you want with roller and brush (any topcoat) or wiping varnishes (polyurethanes/tung oils).  I love spraying... you need an Accuspray Ten gun (HVLP).  Ditch the lacquers and go water base.  Try Target USL (Ultima Spray Lacquer... actually an acrylic product).

   Here's an example... this graining is faux and acheives it's quality appearance by the application of transparently tinted coats over the graining and allowing the light undercoat to reflect light back through the tinted coats.  This is done on thermafoil doors which were originally just stark white plastic surfaces.