Replies

1. 
   cbolton | Jan 17, 2007 09:11pm | #1

   I love finishing too. After finishing comes delivery, and after delivery comes PAYMENT !!!

2. 
   Riverprof | Jan 17, 2007 09:38pm | #2

   Bob, I'm laughing with you, not at you.

   I promised Frenchy I'd give it a try, and as soon as I get done procrastinating, I'm going to do exactly as instructed (or he'll throw boogers at me).

   Rp

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jan 17, 2007 11:23pm | #3

   I guess sometimes the fingers don't communicate what the brain is trying to say.  I was a long time oil/wax or poly fan and had never tried shellac for a finish.  I'm in the process of making a plane/chisel cabinet to hang on the wall in my modest shop from birch hardwood flooring.

   I read several posts in here on the virtues of shellac and said to myself, what the hell let's give it a try.  I bought a pint can of Zinssear Clear #3 Cut, poured into a larger container and added 1/3 the contents Denatured Alcohol to thin it.

   I sanded it from 120 thru the grits to 220 and stopped.  I then proceeded to pad on the shellac with a cotton rubber made out of a well worn tee shirt. 

   One thing to remember is DO NOT TOUCH WHAT YOU"VE PADDED ON!

   You'll see the misses and get them with the next coat.  I put 5 coats on.  No need for wax either!  I like a glossy finish.  The first coat dries in about 15 minutes depending on temp & humidity, the next 30 mins., 45 for the next and so on (These are approximate).

   I am so pleased with the results I'm tempted to try a French Polish the next time!  Give it a go.  If I can do it, I'm sure you can as well.

   Regards,

    Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   Kidderville, NH

    

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   byhammerandhand | Jan 18, 2007 06:19am | #4

   I love finishing too. It's so confusing to people, they are more than happy to pay someone to do it.

2. 
   sialia | Jan 18, 2007 08:22pm | #5

   I love shellac followed with 0000 steelwool and wax.  In the past, I have made the shellac from flakes and alcohol. 

   I recently tried Zinsser's amber and loved the color.  However, after padding on four coats, I noticed, after the first coat , that the coverage was not consistent.  Some areas had become blotchy.  Color was great in most of the boards, but there were some light spots.  I added 3 more coats over the next hour.  I sanded with 220 and tried 4 more coats.  Still cannot get rid of the small areas of lighter color.  I don't think it's the wood - I tried Garnett schellac from flakes and did not have the same problem.

   So, what's the problem, you ask.  Why not just use the flakes?  I have already finished pieces that go together and I really like the color of the Zinsser.  I need to finish the remaining pieces but do not want to get the same light spot/inconsistencies that I got with the original boards.  I cannot use the flakes because the color is not as dark.  And, of course, there's the time constraint.  I need to finish up today and I can get the pre-mixed at Home Depot.

   Is it likely that the problem I experienced was not letting the first coat dry long enough and when I applied the second, third and fourth, the color was somehow removed?  This is what appears to have happened.  If so, I can be more careful with the first coat and wait before applying a second coat.  I am hesitant to proceed with out come comfirmation of the solution to this problem.  I will also note that the  Zinsser Amber it seems to have a lot of solids in the mix - very different from the flakes.

   Thanks for the help,

   Chris

   Edited 1/18/2007 12:47 pm ET by sialia

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jan 18, 2007 09:18pm | #6

   sialia,

   sialia,

   Is it likely that the problem I experienced was not letting the first coat dry long enough and when I applied the second, third and fourth, the color was somehow removed?

   While I'm no SteveSchoerne or frenchy, when I applied shellac for the first time, Mr. Schoerne suggested in aonther post, each coat took successively longer that the previous coat to dry. 

   1st - 15 mins., second 30 mins., third - 45 mins, etc, etc.

   My guess is that as the coats build up and get thicker, they take longer to completely dry as shellac "sort of melts" into the previous coat.  Environmental variables can affect the length of time, i.e. heat, humidity, etc.

   If when lightly touching it the finish feels tacky - wait.  Also, don't try to touch up misses as you apply, it will cause problems.  Leave it alone and get it with the next coat. 

   You might want to check frenchy's post in the opposite thread, I hate finishing.  Also, he may be able to offer advice on repairing your problem.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   Kidderville, NH

    

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 19, 2007 01:16am | #7

    

   You probably just ended up with thin spots that appear light because of the reduced amount of material.  The solution is to carefully add a coat or two only to those areas, blending in as much as possible.  A little more sanding on the darker areas surrounding those areas probably helps also.  Then give a good long time to dry and apply one or two very thin coats--add a dollop of DNA to your standard mix--over the entire surface to pull the "shading" together.  The more coats you apply the more it will all even out.  Then if that ends up looking too thick a film, you can sand the entire surface level a bit more vigorously than you would have done before the typical rubbing out process. 

    

    

1. 
   sialia | Jan 19, 2007 01:35am | #8

   Sounds like good advice from you both. 

   I don't, however, understand the reference to"DNA."  Can you explain this?

   Thanks

2. 
   Rich14 | Jan 19, 2007 02:51am | #9

   sialia, DeNatured Alcohol. Rich

3. 
   texmark | Jan 19, 2007 03:12am | #10

   For years the shellac gurus preached that the use of premixed canned shellac was a  a crime and  abomination and a sin before The Lord. Now I see more and more references to use of Zinsers (sp?) Zero or other canned shellac.

4. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jan 19, 2007 03:55am | #11

   I'm a novice at shellac, and I mean novice BIG TIME, as this was my forst time using shellac.  But Steve suggested thinning the Zinserr to 1# cut, which I did and applying thin coats with progressively longer drying time between coats.  First and foremost, don't mess with misses.  I don't know how many times I had to slap myself on the head to leave it alone!  It's very easy to see these, especially during the early coats and laying them down fast really works. 

   I really had to DISCIPLINE myself as I'm a fussy old fart!  That miss needs to have a coat.  NO, I'll get it next time.  I think that part is a major downfall, don't do it.

   When I finished it, I couldn't find a flaw.  The best finish I have ever applied!  No, it's not a French Polish, but several of my fellow woodworkers have admired the finish.  The project was a plane and chisel cabinet for my woodshop.

   Is a French Polish in my future, You betcha!

    

    Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   Kidderville, NH

    

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

5. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 19, 2007 03:47pm | #12

   I believe Zinsser has improved the shelf life of canned shellac so that there is much less likelihood that you will buy unusably old liquid shellac.  Still, for the most critical uses, you know it is fresh if you mix it yourself from fresh flakes the week before you use it.  And, you have a much greater range of color choices, both waxed and dewaxed when you use flakes.  With Zinnser you only have two choices--Amber (orange) shellac with wax, and Blonde (Seal Coat) without wax.  The Clear is bleached shellac.  Bleaching lessens the protective qualities of the shellac, and I don't use the bleached shellac on furniture as the top coat finish. Its OK as a barrier coat between materials.   Blonde or super blonde is not chemically bleached in the same way as the clear shellac. 

6. 
   sialia | Jan 19, 2007 04:38pm | #13

   Thanks, Rich.  After I posted the note, went home and thought about it, I realized it was a stupid question.  I appreciate the reponse.

    

   Chris

7. 
   Rich14 | Jan 19, 2007 05:43pm | #14

   sialia,

   No, no. It was not a stupid question. There are no stupid questions. None.

   Except those unasked!.

   Rich

3. 
   pmmatty | Jan 20, 2007 01:05am | #15

   I don't love finishing but I don't hate it either.  I actually kind of like it.  Two primary reasons:

   1.  After I have built something to the best of my ability, it still looks pretty bad unfinished.   And then, during the finishing process it starts to look like something beautiful.  And then, when complete, the wood is gorgeous and the finish is as smooth as silk.  That is satisfying.

   2.  It is a continual learning process, just as is the construction process.  I actually have a clue what I'm doing.  Not a pro by any means but competent to use the appropriate finish for the piece, be it dye, stain, oil, wax, shellac, laquer, or varnish.  And I continue to learn.  Isn't that the fun of it all?

   PMM

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jan 20, 2007 03:52am | #16

   PMM

   Very well put, it's kind of what I wanted to say at the beginning. 

   As far as finishing goes, if getting your feet wet is appropriate, then I'm approaching my kneecaps!  I feel confortable with varnishes & shellac (dabbling with French Polish).  Have not tackled staining and basically have avoided it as I like the wood natural.  Most of the pieces I make don't require matching to anything else but I have an open mind and love a challenge.

   My joinery skills are getting better all the time.  I used to cut dovetails with a router but have since graduated to cutting them by hand, learning the associated skills required.  Those being sharpening chisels, cutting to a line with the dovetail saw, chopping out the waste, etc.

   The volume of sanding dust paste to fill the gaps has dropped considerably!

   Regards,

    Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   Kidderville, NH

    

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   pmmatty | Jan 20, 2007 03:49pm | #17

   Kidderville:

   Funny you would make the comment about hand cut dovetails.  Cut my first yesterday.  Didn't come bad.  I received some really nice chisels for Christmas and now have a clue how to sharpen them.  And will readily admit I used the magnetic dovetail guide sold by Veritas (Lee Valley).  It was indispensable.

   By the way we are distant neighbors. You in NH.  I am on the Cape in MA.

   PMM