Replies

1. 
   _mj_ | Dec 11, 2019 11:17pm | #1

   There are many methods to get sharp, all end with a flattened and polished back surface meeting a flattened and polished beveled edge.

   This post will draw many replies, and I am honored to be first!

   For me, sharp is a 10,000 grit ceramic stone for the finished polish. I get there with several diamond plates in ascending grits followed by secveral ceramics also in ascending grits. I use the Veritas holder and I keep a notebook listing the primary bevels I put on each tool so I can get back to it, or change it if need be.

   I do not use the "ruler trick" or a strop. For what it's worth, the fastest way will come after a long process of refining and practicing A WAY. Pick a way you want to try and stick with it, time is the teacher. You will need elbow grease, I think Rockler and Highland both carry it.

2. 
   rob_ss | Dec 12, 2019 03:17am | #2

   I'm with _MJ_ here.

   You need a honing guide because it's really hard to get consistent results without one. Possible of course, but a nightmare. Spend money here first as you can always use wet and dry paper stuck to glass. I use and recommend the Veritas offering but you can also get good results with a much cheaper $10 item though you will need to make a guage for setting up your blades (this is dead easy)

   As for the stones, you will get more than adequate results initially with a 300 and 1000 grit combination diamond stone. There is of course a difference with higher grits, but a 1000 grit will do the biz and you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference with higher grits.

   If you go for water stones, you will need to have a diamond stone to flatten them anyway and the coarse diamond stone will be great for that so get the diamond combo first.

   If you need more, then consider a higher grit water stone - I use an 8000 grit King stone, and if I'm feeling fancy will strop with green honing paste - a thin smear on MDF after.

   Remember that stones from different manufacturers have different grit sizes.

   You may like this video which shows a true professional comparing 1000 and 16000 grit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWX2ursXfqw

   Also Mike Pekovitch did a great series on handplane fundamentals which included his sharpening system. FWW of course...

3. 
   Findelarue2 | Dec 12, 2019 07:40am | #3

   Ah, John. Your frustration is so evident and so expected. Sharpening is an art and it requires thought, preparation and practice. Firstly, what is sharp? The answer, it depends on what you will be doing with the tool. Heavy stock removal requires less sharp, relatively, than the last push of a smoother with a whisper of a shaving. Think about where you are in your project and what you want to achieve in that particular stage as you sharpen. Each tool requires a slightly different approach that you will eventually come to as your woodworking skills mature. In past years most crafts people learned sharpening as an apprentice. Nowadays the best approach is probably a class at a woodworking store or school. If you're really lucky, you may find an old timer who will give you tips that are priceless. You will get some hands on experience and most importantly, you will be introduced to a system that will help you define "sharp." Good luck.

4. 
   chipsawdust | Dec 12, 2019 09:43am | #4

   I use the Veritas deluxe sharpening jig, a 300/600 diamond stone for rough work, a 1200 Arkansas stone for intermediate work (if the blade somehow got a ding in it), and 3000/8000 water stones for finishing. I do use a strop, as I find the final polish to be quite nice. I use three grades of strop compound and you could signal airplanes with the polish on them.

   It's already been said, and I've sharpened a lot of different kinds of tools over the years, that a honing jig is almost a requirement. I bought the cheaper version, I forget the name, Robert something, and found it entirely unsatisfactory. It had to be modified to accept many of my chisels. The Veritas system is around $120 as I recall (I didn't get the skew attachment), but I haven't regretted buying it. It's really hard to make mistakes with it once you do the setup a time or two.

   Waterstones require more maintenance than Arkansas stones or diamond stones, but it's pretty easy to do. I also have a small granite surface plate to which I attach sticky-backed sandpaper. I use that to flatten the waterstones now and then. Waterstones are also a bit messy, and you want to be careful you don't transfer one grit to the next one - done by wiping your chisel/blade and the honing jig off between grits, and sometimes I dip the waterstones in my water jug to wash off previous slurry.

   Many ways to do it. I also recommend Ron Hock's book on sharpening, which can teach you more than you ever wanted to know about how to sharpen various blade types for different purposes, different kinds of metals and so on.

5. 
   geedubbee | Dec 12, 2019 12:24pm | #5

   I think the subject of sharpening is second only to bandsaws in the amount of voo-doo associated with it. You can see that you will get answers from K.I.S.S. to a process that takes half an hour. Most all of them are correct since "sharp enough" means that it is "sharp enough" for you. What is "sharp enough" for a bench chisel may not work for your plane irons and so forth.

   "Sharp enough" for me varies with what I am doing so let's be generic about it. Assuming I just took a chisel out of the box, I would flatten the back to 1000, maybe 4000. I would probably take a couple of swipes at 120 or so on the bevel just to get a visual on what I have. I then work up through the grits. I generally stop at 4000 for bench chisels but, may go to 8000 and a strop (WARNING, the whole strop conversation can take days). ;-)

   I was born without the sharpening gene. A Veritas MK-II and a Worksharp 3000 were my means of survival early on. Both will take the frustrated woodworker to a state of sharp that will allow them to get on with their work in short order.

   Over time I gathered different cutters and so different sharpening paraphernalia was gathered as well. Short, wide and narrow blades are outside this discussion. A decent honing jig and some abrasives will get you started. Don't look for your initial solution to be your final solution. We are all too different for that.

   I tried the Trend and EZE-Lap products. All wore out and my original DMT "stones" just keep on going. I happened to settle on DMT Dia-Sharp plates through about 8000 grit (their extra-extra-fine level). I then use abrasive films and glass plates a-la 'scary sharp' through .3u for really fine work.

   There is plenty of discussion about whether to work to a mirror finish or not, ruler tricks, micro bevels and what have you. I can only report on what is working for me at this point in my journey. You will have to find your own 'happy place' so don't hesitate to alter your methods over time.

6. 
   sclause | Dec 12, 2019 01:32pm | #6

   This can get ugly quick in most forums. I starts to sound like my God is better than your God after a while. Not sure if it gets newbies any closer to perfection but it is what it is.

   For cost reasons I settled on a set of wet stones that I think go from 500 to 8000 and a clamp guide with a roller. The stones came with a diamond flattening plate and a leather strop. I can't remember the name of either. It seems to work well except the guide doesn't auto align with wide plane blades so you need to do some checking before going at it. The stones need to soak ten minutes prior to use and can get messy. Now that I have them I wonder if diamond is better? It does get my chisels "scary sharp" so until I pull the trigger on something else it is what I will use. I was thinking I need to build an outdoor sharpening station to splash and make a mess to my hearts content but winter has me rethinking that idea. As long as you have good grit and a flat surface you should be good. I have done some freehand sharpening but lack a grinder to make major corrections so I like to use a guide to stay on track. I hope this helps.

7. 
   _mj_ | Dec 12, 2019 04:59pm | #7

   Wait just a minute there bub, are you saying your dog is better than my dog!?? Thems fightin words.

8. 
   curmudgeon | Dec 12, 2019 06:37pm | #8

   First- sharpening tools is the one task in the wood shop I’m least comfortable with.

   Second- I feel your pain. I’ve read everything out there I can get my hands on. The more I read, the more confused I get.

   Third - yea, some people will tolerate your talking bad about their spouse, but don’t EVER challenge their approach to sharpening, honing, stropping, lubricant voodoo, whatever.

   Fourth - Mose of the highly touted approaches can get spendy fast. True, sandpaper, emery cloth is costlier in the long run but upfront costs are very affordable.

   IMO, it seems like technique and approach are the first things I need to resolve. The “tools” I ultimately will use will come after I refine my technique and approach. So, for now, for me, it’s a slow speed grinder with two grits, a slab of perfectly flat marble door threshold, some 3m sticky spray and sandpaper/Emory cloth. Oh and yea, I’ll strop,without compound, on occasion.

   Fast? Not necessarily so. But it is slow / controllable enough so I can work on technique... without really making a mess on something that requires going clear back to the beginning, or worse, the grinder. I use a cheap $13 honing guide. Sometimes. I’m starting to get the hang of just using feel and my hands for some plane irons and chisels. And some sharpening doesn’t lend itself well to guides as far as I know.

   I’m a hobbiest, and I’ve recently retired meaning I’ve a bit more time to invest in this than some. My current thinking is that I’ll end up with a nice set of water stones given how often I’ll be using the tools and what my final WOODWORKING objectives are. (I’ve never had an interest in being a die maker.). But for now, I’m focusing on technique. It seems like that will do more for me right now. When I figure that all out (don’t get me started on convex/concave edges) then I’ll settle on the diamond/water stone decision.

   Oh, and yes, I need to find a class or training from someone who isn’t married to their chosen abrasive). What I’m doing is working for me right now. Maybe my thoughts will change as I gain comfort with my methods,

   My 2 cents of advise even tho it took me $7.50 of space to say it. Best wishes from a grumpy old man!

9. 
   fivebirdscustom | Dec 13, 2019 10:19am | #9

   I tend to use wet/dry paper on a plate.

   I work the back first.

   If it's a new to me tool, or there's some big ding in the edge, I start with 220. I work my way up through 400-1k-2k-3k and then I will strop with metal polish or buffing compound on MDF (the MDF is a recent addition that I really like).

   If it's a tool I have previously sharpened, I will start with the finest grit I can get away with.

   I keep threatening to buy a 'better' system. I don't think this is the best system, but I've used it for so long and I've got it pretty dialed in. I've been eyeing the Worksharp 3000.

   I use the veritas sharpening guide I've had for 20+ years most of the time. Although, I have done a lot by hand, without the gauge recently.

   My wife purchased me a mixed set of used Japanese chisels for Christmas. Most of them are in decent shape, some a little rough. Once the backs were completely flat and polished, I've been sharpening them without the guide and it's worked out well.

   I still have a pile of misused chisels and blades that need sharpening... things I've inherited. Things I've abused during my years of construction that sat waiting to get sharpened... That WS3000 is looking better and better to me.

10. 
    muskokalayne | Dec 13, 2019 06:03pm | #10

    Hi, I use diamond lapping films from Lee Valley, on plate glass that is confirmed flat, and a Lie Nielsen sharpening jig. I sharpen only on the pull stroke. It works amazing.
    You can reestablish a primary bevel several ways, I’m fortunate to have a Tormec but I used to carefully use a grinder with a cool wheel and it can be done on a coarser stone or diamond plate.
    This is the item # of the films - 54K9630 - PSA Diamond Film, set of 4 grits (one of each) - they work wonders and are reasonably priced.

11. 
    curmudgeon | Dec 13, 2019 06:18pm | #11

    Now you’ve done it. I wasn’t aware of the diamond film.... something else I have to try. Seriously thanks for mentioning. It’ll give ne a chance to try out the diamond approach before deciding on my “final solution.” Not meaning to hack the thread, just a HT to something I didn’t know about.