Replies

1. 
   CharlieD | Jan 03, 2005 12:54am | #1

   Credit where it's due--YOU don't suck, cutting dovetails in pine sucks.

   Charlie

   I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
2. 
   ron61 | Jan 03, 2005 03:45am | #2

   Good sharp tools might help

    

    

1. 
   cft353 | Jan 03, 2005 05:24am | #3

   My tools ARE sharp, thanks.

1. 
   macalex | Jan 03, 2005 01:44pm | #4

   It's a common mistake to think (or expect) that techniques which work in hardwood can be translated to softwood - especially an unkind pine.

   It's not you, and you say your tools are sharp (but for pine they need to be very sharp), so it'll be your technique. Pine can be hand dovetailed, but it takes care.

   Try knifing the marked-up joint lines deeply with a very sharp knife. Try sawing right up to the knifed line, rather than sawing wide and paring-up with a chisel (pine can be pushed, and fine saw marks will disappear).

   MalcolmNew Zealand | New Thinking

1. 
   cft353 | Jan 03, 2005 05:38pm | #5

   Thanks, Malcolm! Funny that in all these years I never tried this in pine before - I actually like pine with a clear finish for a rustic kinda thang. As I've been doing this I've been thinking, "hmmm, clearly in pine this is a different process" - it's nice to have the confirmation that that's so!

1. 
   macalex | Jan 04, 2005 12:06pm | #9

   I'll be with you soon - a few months ago I bought 7 long (I recall 7m - they're buried under a stack of southern beech at the moment) lengths of 30mm by 200mm (1 by 8 nominal, don't ask me in 4ths) pine from a local mill. The boss put aside any clear lengths that came off the saw for a period of about 3 weeks, and these boards are just lovely - clear, straight, white as a sheet. Good enough to eat.

   I don't normally use pine, having messed about with some 'deal' while making a living as a studio furnture maker in the UK, and I'm still wondering what I'll use this stuff for. I like some of the European furniture made in softwwod - and recently chased down a copy of a design book by Franz Karg with some pieces I like the look of.

   I'll pull it out in the winter (July, say) and think about a project for next summer.

   MalcolmNew Zealand | New Thinking

3. 
   Traveller | Jan 03, 2005 07:40pm | #6

   Go down to the local big boz and get some poplar. It cuts much cleaner and the results are much better than pine. Pine dovetails are best cut with a reouter and dovetail jig. Lots of us  insist on using pine for things that it is not good for or ment for and it only causes frustration and self depretiation. One of the first things I learned in woodworking is to start with good stock and lots of it. Your time is worth much more than lumber. This is espicially true if you have to do the same things 2 or 3 times to get good results. PS

1. 
   zendo | Jan 03, 2005 08:34pm | #7

   man oh man, my dovetails must look killer in hardwood, Ive always hand dovetailed in pine... dont even need glue.

2. 
   cft353 | Jan 03, 2005 11:56pm | #8

   "Go down to the local big boz and get some poplar. It cuts much cleaner and the results are much better than pine. Pine dovetails are best cut with a reouter and dovetail jig. Lots of us insist on using pine for things that it is not good for or ment for and it only causes frustration and self depretiation. One of the first things I learned in woodworking is to start with good stock and lots of it. Your time is worth much more than lumber. This is espicially true if you have to do the same things 2 or 3 times to get good results. PS"

   I so appreciate your POV, Traveller! This piece is just for me so cost efficiencies don't enter into it. As for poplar, I have huge stands of it out in back of my house! and plan to saw some up, dry it, and screw with it lol. This pine piece is actually being a great learning experience and I'm enjoying it in a twisted, masochistic sort of way...

4. 
   cherryjohn | Jan 05, 2005 12:50am | #10

   Here in NH pine is good for starting fires and furniture you dont want to put your name on.  That said I just finished a cabinet made in pine to hold CDs for my son..delivered it yesterday.  I didnt dovetail anything because it is pine.  You generally paint soft pine so why bother?  Glue, screws and a brad nailer..all you need.  I did use a recalined hard pine door with a mission style look and I did find and old interior bead board door for the back, but the  majority is white pine.  5ft tall and 12" deep36" wide.  Tried something different with the legs..the jury is still out on that

   
1. 
   cft353 | Jan 05, 2005 01:00am | #11

   I was going to use glue and brads, then thought, "Hey, I'm a woodworker! Why not do it up right?" Shows what I know (or knew).

1. 
   cherryjohn | Jan 05, 2005 01:26am | #12

   I used to let that worry me too....its how it comes out that is important.  I came to realize that 95% of the public has absolutely no appresiation for things like hand cut dovetails and if you want top sell something you are wasting your time.  They compare what you do to what they can get at Walmart.  Handcut dovetails ( any dovetails) are left to things I do for my family and myself.  My son is 23 and generally doesnt take care of things too well..................at this stage making him an heirloom piece didnt seem the thing to do. 

   Since you made this for yourself then you should have chosen pine with more density if you wanted the dovetail experience.  You dont suck!  There are a ton of folks who would love to be able to do what you do!!  Just know that there are a bunch more that do it better than you and I do too!  "sucking" is relative

1. 
   cft353 | Jan 05, 2005 04:08am | #13

   "...You dont suck!  There are a ton of folks who would love to be able to do what you do!!  Just know that there are a bunch more that do it better than you and I do too!  "sucking" is relative..."

   Thanks, CherryJohn. I actually said that tongue-in-cheek, although initially when I started to have trouble the ol' self-doubt and insecurity demons did raise their ugly little heads. After a little while, though,  I thought, "Even I don't suck this bad..." lol. I don't cut dovetails regularly so I expect a little rust in my chops, but eventually it was clear that it was the material that requires a different approach. But thanks again for the encouragement!

1. 
   cft353 | Jan 05, 2005 09:58pm | #14

   Well, as they say in Thailand, Phuket. I cut the awful dovetails off my piece today and made mitred corners, glued 'em up and called it good. Thanks again for all the valuable feedback!

2. 
   macalex | Jan 08, 2005 01:59pm | #15

   Cheez Chad, that's a whole nother topic! How'd you add strength to the mitres?

   MalcolmNew Zealand | New Thinking

3. 
   cft353 | Jan 08, 2005 04:37pm | #16

   I nailed the sumb*tches together, and nailed a 1/4" birch veneer ply backing to it. (Hey, Norm Abrams does it!) If it all falls apart I'll knock it apart and make spline joints - or bust it up and put it in the woodstove.

5. 
   WillN | Jan 09, 2005 08:02pm | #17

   Don't worry be happy.
   CDs are going to be obsolete within a few years and you can toss your beginner's efforts without a worr.....Wait a minute......white noise (current bad movie reference deceased people talking to movie stars through electronics) is coming through my computer.... I think its,,,, yes,,,, it's Tage Frid-he's trying to tell us something:

   Don't cut your first dovetails on something important,
   Make sure your chisels are sharp, Get some scrap, cut it sqaure..
   Make sure you have good lighting, turn off the radio, put in a Bach CD,
   Carefully mark some dovetails on the scrap, clamp them to your bench and practice, practice practice.
   CD cases are at Ikea cheap-dovetails are what you're really after. The CD case is an excuse to make dovetails. So listen to the CDs and make dovetails

   Wait Tage-one question. Tails or pins first?
   I asked Jesus that last week, remember he was a carpenter.
   Yes and....
   He said even he didn't know. But he did say he definitely prefers joinery to nails......

   Will

1. 
   cft353 | Jan 09, 2005 08:49pm | #18

   All good advice. I actually cut my first dovetails many years ago, which is why I was nonplussed that these went off the rails so badly, so quickly. I had just never cut them in pine before.

   Oh, and - a Bach CD? That would make me psychotically homicidal in a very short time. Blues or roots rock for me. The reason is that I, as a musician, am very familiar with the blues, whereas with Bach my attention would be divided between what I was doing and what Bach was doing. I'd screw up early and often, and go right over the high side. It's an ADD thing...