Ideal Dry Lubricant for Table Saw Use
Hello to All,
I would like to know what everyone considers as the best table-saw undercarriage lubricant and why
I have had several recommendations such as Lithium grease and Bostik’s NEVER*SEEZ Gel Lube. I no experience with the Bostik product.
I have personally used lithium grease on my 8-inch Delta jointer when I had to reassemble it. What I have noticed since is that the lithium grease has become hard or “caked” and it has attracted shop dust. None of this is a major problem but removing it could be. I believe that that would require some form of degreaser such as carburetor cleaner or something similar. This all sounds very messy and time consuming. I’d prefer not to go that route.
I use Bostik’s “TopCote” quite a bit for all of my metal shop surfaces: TS, jointer, etc. and it works very well. I do not keep a log, but over time all surfaces do need to be re-coated. The good side of “TopCote” is that it contains no petroleum oils or silicones. However, I wonder how well it would work for a TS application.
Doing a little research this evening, I found an ad for “Tri-Flow” which is a lubricant designed for chains and other such applications. It seems to have some very good qualities. From their website ad:
http://www.triflowlubricants.com/Dry_Lubricant/dry.html
“Tri-Flow Superior Dry Lubricant was specifically designed to lubricate like an oil and stay clean like a wax. Its exclusive formula includes paraffin wax and high grade petroleum oil which penetrates as it quickly sets up and dries, leaving a thin, visible, coating that repels water as it lubricates. Adhesion promoters dramatically reduce shedding, increasing the length of time before reapplication. Special additives displace moisture and eliminate the potential for rust and corrosion, while an inherent anti-static agent works to repel dirt and dust under extremely arid and dry conditions.
USAGE:
• Great for lubricating all pivot points
• Specifically designed for lubricating chains”
As usual, all suggestions and comments are most welcome.
Phillip
PS. BTW, I have absolutely no financial interest in Tri-Flow products. I have no idea even where to purchase it or what it costs. I have an email in to them for that information.
Edited 11/7/2006 7:22 pm by PhillipB
Replies
Hmmm, a combination of camphor, beeswax, petroleum and phenol, might just work. I'll have to try it.
Out of all the greases and lubes I've used over the years, I found squirting plenty of WD40, whenever needed, works the best and is the easiest. Cleans and lubes for months. A light coat of paste wax on the tables, whenever things start to drag. Both products are already on most shop shelves, inexpensive and effective.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer1,I agree with you on the WD40, I even have a gallon of it. What I have found is that it works great right after I apply it, but later on it seems that it's difficult to make TS blade adjustments which tells me two things: (1) the WD40 has lost its lubricating quality, and/or (2), the saw dust has been so attracted to all areas which had WD40 applied to it that all the swarf has clogged the gears making adjustment difficult.There's nothing scientific about what I have said, it's simply my own personal experience with WD40. Would I use it again? In a NY minute, but it's the after affects that I wish were better. IMO, everything is always a compromise and in the end it all boils down to maintenance. We can't get away from that, but I'd like to spread these sessions out a bit by using something that would lubricate longer and not be so attractive to the sawdust we love to make.Thanks again.
Hi Phillip. At one time I didn't like WD very well and used a bunch of different lubes. I didn't get any better results and the WD was just so easy. I blow off the parts with an air gun first and then apply the WD generously while working the wheels. I use Bel-Ray chain lube on my motorcycles but it's rather waxy and may attract a lot of dust. Graphite is very messy whether a dry powder or in anti-seize. I get it on me just looking at the can, sort of like roofing tar. I use another type of chain lube on bicycle chains. I use it on things like clamp and vice screws and many other things. This product is very clean, virtually no residue, handy around the shop.http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=11197Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
hammer,Thanks for getting back to me.I hear you on the the ease of using WD40. Like I mentioned earlier, I bought a gallon of the stuff and the can never seems to go empty. I use it for everything. I have a cousin who used to dive for the New Mexico State Police and he told me that when they pulled up marine motors after an accident someone had a very large tank of WD40 (on a trailer) that they used to dunk the entire motor into to displace the water and save it. He said it worked wonders in that regard.I used to use some form of chain and sprocket spray-on lube when I had my Interceptor. This stuff was great for that purpose and I believe that would work good on TS's as well.I took a look at the link that you so kindly provided and it looks like it would work very good. Not expensive either. Wonder if I can locate it around my area, Chicago. I never grease my screw clamps as you do because I don't want to take a chance of the grease going where I don't want it. However, with KryTech lube, this would not be a problem. I wish it came in a spray can because I really appreciate the reach those spray tubes give you. Thank you very much for this information. I will definitely look into this product.Phillip
I wouldn't use WD40 for a few reasons:
1. It is not a lubricant -- it's a penetrating oil. It is designed to free/loosen stuck parts.
2. It has very poor lubricating properties since it has minimal body and dries rather quickly.
3. It is petroleum based which means that it is guaranteed to attract dust.
I've tried a number of products (not WD40) including lithium grease, graphite and wax based products. A few months ago, I began using Dupont Teflon Multi-use Lubricant. It applies in liquid form but quickly dries to a waxy film that lubricates very well without attracting dust. The real beauty of this product is that it makes cleaning your TS a breeze -- no more degreasers and wire brushes to cut through the layer of dust impregnated grease. Last night I cleaned my TS by vacuuming then blowing out the nooks & crannies with my compressor. When I was done, the mechanicals were essentially spotless -- I only had to reapply the Dupont product and was done. All told, I spent less than 15 minutes.
> I wouldn't use WD40 for a few reasons:
>1. It is not a lubricant -- it's a penetrating oil. It is designed to free/loosen stuck parts. Actually it is a lubricant. See:http://www.wd40.com/Brands/wd40_product_info.htmlI wouldn't use it for this either, though for other reasons.Pete
In various places I've worked (as a "dirty hands" engineer), we've used both Dry Graphite Film (DGF) and teflon mold release for lubricating moving parts in dusty environments. I don't know if either would be good for high pressure applications.
I use "lock ease", a common graphite product for locks on vise screws, clamp screws and with table saw elevation screws. It's a bit messy and not as good as the old "DGF" we used to use.
Mike,Thanks for the graphite suggestion.That DGF sounds like it would work very well. Do you know if you can buy it anywhere?
I haven't been able to find it for years. When I used it, it was purchased commercially. That's why I use the dry ease lock stuff now. That may have something besides graphite in it. Maybe even the dreaded silicone.
Ok, thanks for that. And we certainly don't want any silicone if it was one of the ingredients.
There are several lithium greases. I wouldn't use white lithium on my lawn mower.
I've been using Finish Line wax/Teflon bike lube for areas that don't have to be super slick and will see a lot of sawdust.
Pete
Pete,Thanks for your comments.Interesting what you have to say about white lithium. Can you tell me why you wouldn't use it? Which lithium grease would you prefer?Your Finish Line Was/Teflon lube sounds like it might work very well.
As you found, white lithium dries up pretty quickly. Some of the green lithium automotive greases are excellent, but you wouldn't want them in a table saw because they'd really catch dust well.Pete
Pete,Thanks for your reply to my question. Some of the joints in my Toyota require a special type of automotive lithium grease and I am positive I would not want that stuff under my TS. I grease my own truck so I know about that lithium grease and green it is. Again thanks for all your comments.
Phillip,
Last time I lubed up the innards of my TS, I used a new product to me that I found at one of the box stores. It's "Teflon Multi-use Lubricant" by Du Pont. It sets up dry, and after I had applied and let dry, I was able to give the blade height wheel a quick crank and the blade would coast from full cut to completely lowered with no other force needed. It has stayed easy to adjust with minimal effort for a few months now of everyday use, although I did re-apply about two weeks after the first application. Also, it is a clear to white product; unlike the dry graphite sprays. The only thing that I don't know is if it will mess up with the finishing like silicone...I plan on doing a test when I get around to it.
One thing to note...Some lubricants are totally incompatible with each other, so if you don't know what was used before or are changing what you use, either clean ALL the old lubricant off or do your homework and see if they are compatible.
YOU DO NOT WANT TO USE A "WET" LUBRICANT INSIDE A TABLE SAW...for reasons you've already discovered, it attracts dust and turns into a crud and is hard to clean off.
Thrown in just for fun... Tribology -the study of lubricants, friction, and wear. Beware, contents may be slippery.
-Kevin
Kevin,Thanks for all the great comments.As I was reading what you had written about "Teflon Multi-Use Lubricant" a little voice in my head was saying "Yeah, but how about the silicon content.", but you got to that part soon enough.As far as I know (and by law, what ever that means anymore), the contents have to be spelled out for all to see. I did some research once and discovered that silicon can be called many things, so simply because it doesn't say "Silicon" that doesn't mean that it's not in the can. I just told Hammer1 that I love what WD40 does right after I apply it, but a few days/weeks later it's another story because of how it attracts sawdust.Your comment about not mixing lubricants is something I had never thought about. Thanks for that very much. The only thing I've ever used to lubricate my TS has been WD40 and ProLong SPL100. And before anyone asks, ProLong is not the predecessor to VIAGRA. I think (but I could be wrong) it is the stuff that was be used to lubricate car engines without motor oil in TV commercials a few years back. I've never personally tired that either. Grin. But ProLong does a very good job on my band saw guide bearings.Anyway, point being is that - like it or not - I'm going to have to flip my TS over and clean it good and proper, then apply some good dry lube to all the moving parts. I've done a pretty good job by blowing it out often with my air compressor and by using a stiff wire brush, but I still think I have to clean and lube all the moving parts properly. Take care.
Phillip,No need to flip the saw over, just take off the top. You will get much better access to all the parts, and you will probably throw off the alignment of the top anyway when you flip the saw over (and maybe your back too!). Before you loosen the bolts to the top, take some time and take detailed measurements from the miter slot to the blade, or you can insert a new zero clearance insert and cut through it for registration so your jigs will still be good. There was a great article about a year ago-or-so about tuning up your TS in Fine WWKing...can't find it offhand, sorry. If you haven't done it before, check the trunnion alignment (blade tilted to 45* and aligned with miter slot). This is also a good time to give the whole saw a good once-over, arbor bearings, belts, loose bolts, etc...Good luck...-Kevin
Kevin,Thanks for your suggestions on the TS tune-up.I believe that the FWW article that you're referring to is #179 which showed the LPS lubes we've been chatting about. I've been looking at all the good points Mr. Roland Johnson made in this article.I make my own zero-clearance inserts out of 1/2-inch MDF so this is not a concern with me at all. I've had this Craftsman Contractor's TS for ten years (February 1996) and it's done everything I've ever wanted to do. And it still runs fine. In all honesty, I'm not sure if I'm doing all of this maintenance for me or for the TS. I guess I'll just feel better knowing that I got under there and took a good look at all the parts. I know it has to be cleaned out and lubricated, so what better time to take a closer look than now?About a year ago, when I turned the TS on I heard a strange noise so I shut it off to take a look. I found that the upper pulley set-screw had come loose and the Link-Belt belt was rubbing up against the side of the metal (tin) base. I beleive that the pulley simply did not come off because the belt could not go far enough out for it to do so. Anyway, I could not get the key back onto the arbor, so I had to drill a hole in the side of the base so I could reach the key with a long slim punch to press it back where is was supposed to be before I tightened it back down. That has been the extent of the problems that I had with this TS. Not bad.Anyway, you're correct when you say that's it's a "good time to give the whole saw a good once-over".Take care and thanks again,Phillip
I lubricated my Unisaw using the FWW #179 article as a guide. The controls move very easy now. The dry moly lube is excellent for table saws as it dries and resists dirt and sawdust. Protect the inside of the machine with old rags because when the lube is sprayed it can make a mess since it contains graphite. I used Dri Slide moly lubricant and like it better than the recommended LPS 842. I did use LPS 1 on the hard to reach places as the article suggested.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Jerry,Thank you very much for your mention of FWW #179 which I recalled seeing, but could not find it the two times that I searched for it. I have every FWW issue since #116 which was February 1996. I just didn't go back far enough in my search. Off topic for a moment, but the recent FWW issue with the table saw "tool test" is going to be my last because Taunton refuses to include Craftsman machines in their reviews. The last time I went after Taunton on this, Anatole Burkin chimed in with a post of his own defending Mr. Roland Johnson and further explaining that they cannot include every machine or tool in their tests. Fine, but they consistently never include Craftsman tools and their latest cabinet saw review is no different. End of story and subscription for me.Now that you have actually used the products mentioned in the FWW #179 article, can you tell me where you purchased them? Can these be found in HD, Lowe's, or are these automotive products?I really appreciate your time and comments. Please accept my apology for going off topic as I did.Regards,
Phillip
HD and Lowe's do not have these products. I got them from Grainger and McMaster-Carr. A good hardware store will have some LPS products. I ordered the Dri-Slide from McMaster-Carr. The dry slide is messy but I like it as it does the job.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Jerry,I have the link to McMaster-Carr and I will check out their website on both of these products.Thanks for all of your help.
Phillip: Regarding cancelling your subscription to FWW because they do not include Craftsman in their tool tests: Have you shopped at Sears lately? There are a lot of horror stories out there, especially when it comes to their power tools. My son was seriously injured when a power tool he was using failed and pieces hit him. Point two: Sears does not manufacture anything; they are marketers, most of the junk being manufactured by the powest bidder. Point three: They now sell their tool line through K-Mart and have cancelled their "lifetime" warranty on their "in house" brand. Point four: A lot of the brand name stuff they sell is available elsewhere for less money. Point five: When FWW does include Sears products in their reviews, it is usually rated well below most of the other products being tested. I read FWW religiously, especially the tool reviews, and have NEVER found ANY Sears tool rated much above the bottom of the pile. In decades past, their CRAFTSMAN COMMERCIAL line was pretty good stuff but again, that was decades ago. Point six: When calling the "800" number for replacement parts, you get the run-around by some non-English speaking person who has no clue what you want and could care less. I could go on and on but you get the point. "Nuff said.
HI,
I've always found ordinary paste wax works well for lubricating the gears on my table saw. I just clean off the gears first using a brass wire brush and then smear on the wax using an old toothbrush.
Paste wax is inexpensive and It's great for lubricating the cast iron table saw extentions as well. Wood slides so easily across the table. Just rub on let dry to a slight haze and then buff.
Wanda
The day FWW reviews a Craftsman machine is the day a lot of people would know it's time to dump their subscription. It's been some time since Craftsman sold a quality woodworking machine. We've all used a cheap/junk/low end machine at one time or another and many of us still do, but I don't think FWW needs to start reviewing them. I'm sure there are plenty of reviews online if you really need one.Pete
Edited 11/9/2006 5:38 pm ET by PeteBradley
Pete: Thank you for your input. Another reader yesterday wrote that he was going to cancel his subscription to FWW because FWW would not review Sears equipment. I agree with you absolutely that Sears does not market anything worth reviewing in a publication as fine as FWW. The last decent line of hand power tools Sears sold was their "COMMERCIAL" line that went away a long time ago. My son was seriously hurt using a piece of their "newer" equipment. All he wanted to do was call their attention to the defect but he was immediately met with the "speaky no English" line of crap. Today, when you go to Sears to buy something of a brand name, to take advantage of the reduced price you must charge it on a Sears card, and then pay the 21% interest. That should be illegal as far as usery laws go. Sears became a loser a long time ago and merging with the other loser changed little. They sell a lot of crap, except for the brand name stuff of course. I would advise anyone to stay away from them unless you have absolutely no other source for whatever it is you need - unlikely as long as there are so many really quality woodworker stores around. Regards.
I just ordered LPS #1 and LPS Force 842 from North State in Buffalo, NY. I looked at other vendors but most only carried one or the other, so I looked for a vendor that carried both. North State filled the bill. Their prices were as follows:
LPS #1 ................... $6.79 (11oz greaseless aerosol spray)
LPS Force 842 ........ $9.78 (11 oz aerosol spray)
Here's the link for those who may be interested:
http://www.northstate.com/lps/index.html?target=front.html&lang=en-us
If you order from them, I found that their website ordering window is not too swift. It seems to hang up doing its "Calculate" process, so I ordered by phone: (800) 678-2831.
Thanks to all those who contributed to this thead.
Regards to all,
Phillip[
Hi Phillip,
Thanks for going to the trouble to list all that info. This thread couldn't have happened at a better time, as my Powermatic 66 is squealing a bit when I raise and lower the blade. I couldn't seem to find the back issue with the LPS info.
Thanks,
Lee
Lee,Don't thank me, I couldn't even find the issue that info was in. Thanks should go to JerryPacMan. He's the one who knew the issue and had actually used these products. All I did was find a vendor who had both of those products on the shelf.Anyway, the old saying that "it's the squeaky wheel that get greased" is still true. Grin.Take care,
Phillip
Phillip, I just called and the regular sales lady dosen't know both these products as she is in the store database , not the website. Ya have to ask for the website fella who knows all. Nice folks BTW.
Thanks for the info as I have a Unisaw to move, launder, lube and set up in the new digs later this month. Pat
wax.
Many tablesaw gurus recommend using furniture paste wax for lubricating the heli worm gears. Use a toothbrush to apply it. Paste wax is an excellent low speed lubricant and it will not attract or hold dust.
Howie,Thanks for the wax tip. Someone else mentioned wax as well. The fact that it will not attract dust or debris is a very good quality for that purpose. I'll take a look at that as well. I believe that we have some of that around the house. I know we have some expensive floor wax, wonder if that would work?Take care.
I'm a big fan of "White Lightning", a similar teflon / wax-based bicycle lube to the Finish Line product mentioned earlier. Buy it at a bicycle shop. I wouldn't use either anywhere it would touch wood.
I like it because it DRIES, so less gunk is attracted and built up than paste wax. The excess lube eventially flakes off, taking dirt with it. If you think about it, bicycle chains and woodworking machine undercarriages have lots of similarites. They are precision slow-speed metal mechanisms left exposed to dust and grit, where friction heat and water are typically not factors.
FWIW, either wax-based chain lube is also the best garage door track lubricant I've ever seen.
Just a 'heads up' to let everyone know that my North State order of LPS lubes just arrived: the dry lube, and the moly.
I placed my order on Wednesday - two days ago. Was that fast service or what? Shipping was only $6.50. Nothing outrageous there.
North State delivers. I wasn't expecting that kind of service. Nice.
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