Replies

1. 
   BG | Jul 15, 2004 11:29pm | #1

   Sobi,

   You have picked two very fine table saws to consider, can't loose either way you go.  However, if space or cost is a factor, I might consider a bandsaw instead of the TS..especially if clocks are the objective...and a nice veener finish and lots of small things to be cut is desireable.  Being a tool junkie I'll stop there...lol
1. 
   AiO | Jul 15, 2004 11:53pm | #2

   Thanks BG, Interesting thought about the Band saw, I have often coveted one of those just so I could cut the maximum wood from burls and figured wood.  I can buy fairly large dimension birdseye and curly maple/cherry/walnut and could then custom cut it. Certainly on my list but further down the trail. There have been some recent articles on Bandsaws but I haven't concentrated on them just yet. What about a scroll saw for delicate work?

1. 
   BG | Jul 16, 2004 01:21am | #3

   Sobi,

   Wanna see something that'll make you droll....Rob Millard posted a picture of a clock he just made over in the gallery...the case work, not the inards.....and he hangs his tble saw up on the wall....gees.. 

1. 
   AiO | Jul 16, 2004 03:05am | #4

   yep, that clock was simply fantastic and the more I look at it the more impressed I get. That is certainly what I hope to be building in another 20 years! 

2. 
   MBL | Jul 16, 2004 03:24am | #5

   Dear Sobi,

   For wooden clocks, would say you'd be lacking if you did not have a scroll saw.

   Check Rick Hutchinsons scroll-saw forum. Making wooden clocks is one of his many expertise, and has excellent tips and articles, and links on scroll-saws.

   -mbl-

1. 
   AiO | Jul 16, 2004 07:30pm | #9

   Thanks a ton mbl, thats good info. A scroll saw is something I would likely use every day and would actually allow a lot more detail in my work. I'll check out the scroll saw forum to see if I can refine just exactly which one will do what I want.

   cheers

   Sobi 

3. 
   Andrew | Jul 16, 2004 06:32am | #6

   While they are both good saws, if your buying new I would argue that the general is the better saw. They are heavier with a better fit and finish than a delta. The best thing you could do is go and carefully look at both of them in a showroom and decide for yourself

   andrew

4. 
   MatthewSchenker | Jul 16, 2004 03:52pm | #7

   Sobi,

   I would second the suggestion about a band saw. I have been building furniture for about five years now, and I do not own a table saw. That's right -- no table saw. I use the band saw for a lot of ripping, and I joint on the router table.

   I have the Festool system for ripping large panels, and I love it. Check it out here -- http://www.festool-usa.com.

   If you are looking to set up shop, I would also suggest taking a cloe look at the best sanders. Not to push the Festool line, but they are absolutely dust-free, which is a big deal! I own four Festool sanders, and they are really terrific.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 7/16/2004 8:54 am ET by Matthew Schenker

5. 
   RickL | Jul 16, 2004 06:01pm | #8

   Interesting that you would pick the Unifence with the Unisaw and the Lee Valley fence for the General. The Lee Valley fence is actually the HTC fence which is basically a clone of the Biesemeyer.  While the Uni and Bies are just as accurate I find the extra mass of the Bies to be a plus and with a few jigs it can match the versatility of the Unifence. I find the Bies even more versatile than the Unifence because of the ease of attaching jigs. I would want the http://www.ttrackusa.com/unifence.htm but I would still miss the mass of the Bies for the work I do. There is an optional rear hold down available for the Bies from http://modulus2000.com/product3.htm

1. 
   AiO | Jul 16, 2004 07:43pm | #10

   I think the bandsaw idea wouldn't work too good for ripping large panels or sheets of plywood would it? What other options or add ons would be required to do large panels or how about 4x8 plywood sheets?

   I've never really used either the Bies or the unifence and have only heard the sales pitches about them. It was good info on the fences though rick3ddd, I like LV stuff and feature Veritas products in my shop so I opted for that fence more due to preference and it works well on the General. What is it about the unifence that makes it so desirable for fine woodworking over the clearly more versatile Bies et al?

   thanks to all for the replys, Its a huge help!

   Sobi  

1. 
   RickL | Jul 16, 2004 09:40pm | #11

   It's a personal preference thing. Many consider the unifence to be more versatile becaise you can slide it back and reposition it different ways. I'm probably one of the few who thinks  the Bies is more versatile but I truly find it to be so. Just a few jigs and I can do anything and more than a unifnece.   I've also been using both fences since they came on the market many years ago, not to mention using other saws of European origin which are such a pleasure to use versus the primitive american saws.                                                        

   I recall seeing a review on the HTC and it wasn't rated as good as the Bies, which surprised me as I thought their improvements were pretty good.

   You ought to take a look at sliders such as the Rojek and KUFO. Once you use a slider it's hard to go back to a regualr saw.

2. 
   BG | Jul 16, 2004 11:43pm | #12

   Sobi,

   For cutting up sheets of ply..Matthew suggested the Festool system.  I usually rip them up in the garage with a straight edge and skill saw with a good blade..its just so much easier than draging them over to the cabinet saw...and also, in many cases, I get them cut in half at the store anyhow.

   It's been 24 hours so as a tool junkie I can make anothe recomemdation....planer...got to have one...see ya in another 24 hours...

1. 
   AiO | Jul 17, 2004 12:19am | #13

   You know, I think that tool junkie rule just got tossed, minds are like parachutes, they work better when open. If you have more to add then let er rip my friend, I only wanted to limit topics to one or two otherwise the thread gets cluttered up with too much information on everything from electric pencil sharpeners to post turning lathes!

   So far we have a table saw with a Bies type fence system OR

   OR a bandsaw option that has me interested enough to look into it as a viable choice given I want to have minimum PT in my shop.

   We have a scroll saw for detailing but more to know about that

   A planer, which would be extremely handy so long as I can sharpen my own blades

   A dust collection system perhaps?

1. 
   MBL | Jul 17, 2004 12:44am | #14

   Hand planes, friend. And learn to sharpen them. And cabinet scrapers too, and learn to sharpen them.

   Router table, but better, an inverted pin router. A Dozuki too.

   Good luck.

   -mbl-

2. 
   RickL | Jul 17, 2004 02:39am | #15

   "A planer, which would be extremely handy so long as I can sharpen my own blades"

   Why would you have to sharpen your own blades???? It's far more efficient to have a professional do them for the most part. Nowadays you can get disposable quick change knives. A bit pricey as they are designed to save downtime for professional shops. Obviously they make their money doing woodwork not fixing machines and most folks dread changing knives.

   A table saw, jointer and planer are the basics of working with solid wood. Still plenty of room for handtools but being able to mill wood efficiently means more time to spend with the handwork. Work smarter not harder. Rikon makes a planer/jointer combo for around $600.

   http://rikontools.com/

   And Seco makes a nice sliding tablesaw.

   http://www.seco-usa.com/

3. 
   AiO | Jul 17, 2004 03:40am | #16

   Before I ever picked up a handplane or a chisel I first learned to how to sharpen tools properly. I spent a full year sharpening everything from plane irons to chisels to knives and scissors so I could understand angles and metals and achieving the degree of sharpness I needed to have. Guess i enjoy sharpening (I use waterstones up to 8000 grit) so much that the thought of sharpening planer blades just seems natural.

   A jointer would be usefull I guess although I just never seem to get good results when I use one. I tend to end up with too much material taken off the ends (sniping?) and have difficulty with larger lumber. I honestly prefer getting twisted or distorted lumber squared off using a drawknife and a jack plane even though that can be hard work ( the good kind). I'm building a workbench and had 4 white oak 4x4 legs. Two I did up fairly quickly on a jointer with so so results and the other two I used the drawknife and jack/fore plane combo to get quite good results. Lot of sweat though, not quick. Its the old saying,  Good, Fast and Cheap but you can only have two of the three.