Replies

1. 
   Lilshaver | Sep 03, 2005 09:04pm | #1

   I'm not sure that I completely follow your explanation, especially the part about the cross bracing. However, it seems to me that with the partial front aprons the front legs will be as well supported for sideways shear as a fully aproned table. The only thing lacking is vertical support for the top which is a moot point given what is to be placed on it. So, I don't see any reason to muck up the piece with a lot of unnecessary stuff. You will have to use rather stiff legs to keep vibration to a minimum.

1. 
   RichD | Sep 03, 2005 11:34pm | #2

   Thanks Lilshaver!

   This is my first serious piece of furniture and I was thinking that semi-aprons in front would support the legs the way the needed to be. 

   Thanks for your point about the legs.  I'm sizing them at ~1 3/4 inches square at the top, and was planning a double taper to 1" square at the foot, starting about 1/4" after the bottom of the apron.  Do you think that will be too narrow given the nature of the piece?

   About the cross bracing, I had originally thought of cutting a dovetail socket in the tops of the front legs and angling a brace across to the top of the back apron and cutting a barefaced mortise in the top of the apron so the brace would angle from the leg to the back apron flush with the tabletop when it was installed.  Then I thought that might take too much wood out of the leg on the end grain so my next thought was the corner brace blocks and cutting the dovetail there instead.

   My concern was that if someone leaned on the table at one of the front legs that would stress the frame that would normally have full apron to support it.

   That's the beauty of a forum like this.  I don't know anyone here in Las Vegas that's I could even ask a question like this.

   Thanks!

2. 
   UnclePaul | Sep 04, 2005 04:58pm | #3

   Doesn't sound like you'll run into trouble with the general approach you're taking.A couple suggestions though: Where your front aprons end, you might add a secondary short side apron front to back( apron to apron).My thought here is if you lose support the long way you may gain a little back by supporting the short way.The dovetailed corner bracing may be unnessecary, a couple of "rubbed in place" glue blocks on the inside where leg meets apron will help to re-enforce the joint. You may also want to consider using thicker stock for the top. An 1" or more would add rigidity,you could taper back the edges so it still appears thin. Lastly, consider using some sort of stretcher arrangement between the legs.This will add strength, especially if one of the legs gets kicked. I wouldn't worry about downward force on the table top. I would worry more about lateral force on the legs. 

1. 
   RichD | Sep 04, 2005 06:08pm | #4

   UnclePaul,

   Thanks for the ideas!  I'm not quite sure what you mean about the "rubbed-in-place" glue blocks.  Would they be glued vertically on the inside of the leg/apron joints?

   Thanks!

   RichD

1. 
   UnclePaul | Sep 05, 2005 03:42pm | #8

   Yes  the glue blocks are placed vertically along the inside of the joint. You see this a lot in older furniture , as a sort of insurance policy.I recall an article in FWW, I think by Garrett Hack , a year or so ago about glue blocks.

   Hot here in FL. too . We've had 50 something straight days of 90 plus. Not quite Vegas heat but  too hot to be in the shop.(humid) 

1. 
   RichD | Sep 06, 2005 06:20am | #9

   Thanks UnclePaul,

   I was just looking under an old mable table my wife was given by her mother and saw glue blocks on it as well.  It's basically a Danish Modern style stand made of teak with a solid marble top about 3 1/2 feet square.  It's a numbered piece, and looks like the maker sawed doweling in quarters and glued them in place next to the mortise and tenon joints.  I thouht it was kind of interesting that he didn't use the same size dowels for each of the blocks... they're different diameters at each joint even though the stand is perfectly square.

   I'll take the dry heat over the humid any day... I was out in the shop today building a lumber rack and sawing some plywood for a tool stand I'm building.  I drank a liter of water and 2 liters of Gatorade just to stay even on fluids!

   I'll let you know how it turns out!  I'm going to cut the mortises & tenons by hand.  I really would like to master the art of crafting these joints.  I see lots of sharpening in my future!

   Cheers!,

   RichD

3. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 04, 2005 06:38pm | #5

   Sorry for the late post...

   The table will be a piano stand made of red oak..
   I like oak but ASH and Hickory also are nice woods... Just me..

   Will this be a opening bench where music sheets/books are stored.. I HOPE SO! Nice if you can..

   If you use nice fitting mortis and tenons all should be well.. But it never hurts to use metal corner braces of the legs (Look at a good kitchen table)

   I never made a Piano bench but if it were me.. I'd take my camera to a quality piano store and look at the benches... Sneak a few shots of how it was made... Just me though...

   EDIT:: SORRY you said ... piano stand DAH.....

   EDIT TWO!:: no more than 25" high because the height of the keyboard itself is another four inches to the key tops.

   No reason you can not make the Keyboard stand adjustable in height.. I would... AND Make the Bench for her in case she gets tired!

   Edited 9/4/2005 11:40 am ET by WillGeorge

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/4/2005 1:02 pm ET by WillGeorge

4. 
   3fingers | Sep 04, 2005 06:50pm | #6

   All you have to do is put the apron on the back and then put a 2nd apron around the middle of the table.  That should be plenty.

1. 
   RichD | Sep 05, 2005 08:24am | #7

   Thanks everyone for your ideas!  I did the rough milling of my lumber today and now have to wait till next week to start the next steps.  Wasn't too bad in the shop today, my garage only got up to 106 and about 20% relative humidity!  Looks like the weather is going to dry out.  I can't wait till winter... I won't complain about the shop being cold at all!  Of course, we do great winters in Las Vegas... bitterly cold is somewhere around 50 degrees.