If you were asked to write some words for a book would you do it? The task is as follows.
Describe in detail the characteristics and usage of 100 woods. Each timber/lumber requires about 400 words.
Each species described requires an example photographed in its raw unfinished form, which I have to provide, and the other half of the sample finished with a polish of some sort. Veneers on MDF would probably do.
You have to compile this wee text and whatever by the middle of July, 2004.
If you had a full time job that takes up 50- 60 hrs., per week would you jump at it for £5000– about $8000. £5000 is their first offer, and they want world publishing rights too– never sold those before, and my counter offer would probably ask for double that.
I’ve already suggested there are definitive texts out there now so why duplicate what’s available? And it’s a bloody big ask in the time allowed.
Thanks to someone at Taunton for suggesting my name to the British publisher of this venture— I’ve never written for Taunton, but someone there must know my name. Is that good or bad, lol?
The topic’s up for sarcastic responses, laughs and general fun. In the end I’ll make my own mind up on what to do. I suspect that the double right winged Arno character has plenty of texts on the subject just sitting right there ready up his sleeve——– ho-hum. Why didn’t they just ask him for some of his sloppy old seconds, ha, ha—ha, ha, ha? Slainte.
Replies
I wouldn't do it, even for twice the price. My health, my productivity and the quality of my work all suffer if I try to work more than about 50 hours a week. Researching (perhaps I'm wronging you to assume you don't have the characteristics of 100 types of wood at your fingertips) and writing the text, acquiring, mounting, finishing, and photographing the samples in 3-1/2 months would come pretty close to a full time job.
I'm not sure I would do it even if I already had the manuscript sitting in my bottom desk drawer. Based just on what you've told us, it sounds like the publisher is looking for a quick and dirty job, and I don't think I would want my name on it. I could probably be persuaded to sell my self respect, but not for $16,000. Certainly not if I already had a job.
Have you looked at other books from this publisher? Would you recommend them?
And BTW, who pays for the wood samples?
"And BTW, who pays for the wood samples?"
It looks so far as if it would be me, Dunc. I can tell you, I ain't keen so far. The editor I spoke to today is all gung-ho-- almost American like in her determination to break down all awkward barriers-- a bit like the Shrub, your US pres-- that should wake Arno up from his dyspectic slumber.
I'm just a cynical Brit with a jaundiced outlook on the world, and too many fly by get rich quick offers to fall for the whole shebang too easily. Slainte.. RJFurniture
Richard,
I have a book like that at home. Maybe not 400 words for each type or 100 types but reasonably covering a significant grouping of woods. Come to think of it I haven't even looked at the book in many years. Their idea sounds like an overkill to me, I can't imagine who would want to read it. I'll wait for the movie to come out.
I agree with the workload/time/$ issues mentioned. But, let them know you can be bribed and TEN TIMES the offer will get you thinking.
Enjoy, Roy
I'll work backwards.
First up, about 3 days to decide upon then collect the samples and prepare them, plus another day to finish them.
Another 2 days for photography
400 words is about an A4 page. Take about 3-4 hours to write and edit/re-edit.
By the time you get to 100 you'll be stretching knowledge and will be researching a fair bit - say about 5 hours per wood on average.
So - 500 hours plus 60 hours = 560 hours = 10 full time weeks extra work to cram in on top of your job in the next 3 months
makes your pay rate £9- per hour, just above minimum wage.
I'd leave it and see if they come back on your terms. My gut feeling is no, I value my sanity (that is, if what little's there to start with!).
I've got an idea - you do the wood prep, Jon does the words/text (being retired now and all) and split the money - what split do you think's appropriate for the writing, since that's the easy part? 2%? 80%? Somewhere in between (and do you deduct your 50% spotter's fee first?)
Edited 4/2/2004 3:01 pm ET by eddie (aust)
Edited 4/2/2004 3:02 pm ET by eddie (aust)
I'd roughly estimate 1,000 hours,maybe 700-1000 hours. Still, 8 grand for that amount of labor? Charge 25,000-30,000. See what happens. If they spew up their morning cup of tea, then ask instead for points,like 10 grand and 2 or 3 percentage points. Hey, you already got a job!
Richard... yer talking about taking on a chitloada work there.... 400,000 words in the finished edition plus at least 200 full colour pics....
Over the past few months, I've read a fair few books of this approx. size; more than one contain thanks from the author to those who supported them for the last year while they tackled the writing. Given the time involved to create the initial draft, proof read it, edit it, re-proof it, re-edit the revision etc, I don't believe the 10 week window is anywhere near enough time for such an undertaking; certainly not for the price they're offering. In your shoes, I'd tell em politely (Ahem) to reconsider their offer and the deadline....
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Some day I'll write a book. But it will have to be something I'm personally interested in, and that has not already been covered in some other book.
I teach furniture design. Would anyone be interested in a methodical approach to furniture design? When there are 10,000 of you I'll begin the book. ;-)
4Dthinker
The book project that you've outlined would drive me out of my mind. (It's a short trip.) I simply couldn't do it.
A better project: Invite 100 woodworker/furniture makers to make a piece using a prescribed wood and then they write about that species as it pertains to their work. Of course these craftsfolk will have to be paid an honorarium and have materials furnished. You edit this book and coordinate the project. You also write an introduction essay. OK, you can also be one of the 100 makers. In the end, the book will appeal to a mass audience (far beyond the droll book as proposed) so sales will pay for the whole thing as well as make a profit for the publisher. The finished pieces can be auctioned off at a black tie affair and the proceeds donated to charity.
OK, for my part, I get to have my choice of wood and I get to choose first. (hey...it's my idea!)
I'm sure you know that the initial offer is always the lowest. I would be careful about signing away any intellectual rights. Finally, I am disturbed by the time frame. Did they have someone else on the hook who told them bye-bye. And if so, why?
Richard, do you know a good literary agent or attorney in the entertainment field that might provide some counsel or guidance?
Is there an established retail and wholesale price point, distribution agreement and a sales forecast for this project? You can base some gross revenue numbers on this information for an ideas of the production budget INCLUDING the honorarium for the author.
This sounds like a lowball offer. Based on the previous posts, payment seems low for the amount of time required. Also, I'd want them to pay for the material. And why the short deadline? Could that be extended? Perhaps you could get an "advance." I think I'd want to see a little "good faith" before I put pen to paper. And, a guarantee plus a percentage is always good.
I'd want a little geedus before I rockus...
tony b.
(tipping his cap to Cub Koda)
World Woods in Color, William A.Lincoln, Linden Publishing Co. Inc., 1986
Price on jacket, $49.95
Only covers 275 woods, about 500 words, one page per sample.
Eddie has done some of the maths, all told it would be about 40,000 words. 100 woods x 400 words = 40,000 words. I've just completed a similar scale writing task at work, took me about 400 hours.
400 words about each wood will be much harder to write than you may initially think. I think it was Abe Linclon who when asked if he could speak at a function always asked how long he had to talk for. 10 minutes, he'd be ready in a month, 30 minutes he'd be ready next week, 2 hours he could start right away.
Books about woods have been done by lots of publishers. I've an Australian version that covers 100 species and a Collins (UK) one that covers about 75 species.
Now if the task is to produce a wholely new work, 3-1/2 months is probably not an unreasonable time frame, but the rate offered is off the planet. I would accept for a rate that equated to about 70-80% of my annual income as the disruption such a task entails would equate to loosing over 1/2 a year from my real work life.
Now if the task is really about preparing 100 wood samples and EDITING 400 words about each sourced from outside the UK, then the rate is probably reasonable. I have a friend who is a cookery writer/editor, who was born, raised and educated in the US. they now live in Australia and frequently are engaged to convert US recipies into Australian/UK measures and the reverse and to test cook the result. Much like your trans alantic experience. So if what you are really doing is converting something like Jon Arno's dulcet prose into the Queen's English jump at it.
Ian
Sgian...
I remember such a book back in the early 1970's. It was used in the High School Woodworking classroom as a reference work, not an 'every student must carry one' book. It may have been published by McKnight or Goodheart - Wilcox or similar school text companies. Have you checked your local library for 'Books In Print'? the American version may be slightly different from the British version, so check both. Go to http://www.woodworker.org, the website of a woodworking club from 'upstate' New York. Look at the past issue or two of their newsletter. They have a very nice series called 'Wood of the Month'. It's a bit more than 400 words, but interesting to read. If you write 400 words on 100 woods you will get a lot of 'hate mail' form people wanting to know why you omitted their favorite wood. The project sounds interesting, however the deadline for all this work seems just a wee bit short. Either way, the decision must be yours. SawdustSteve
Slainte
I'll keep it short. Not enough time, not enough money!
I would be skeptical of that much cramming in the given time frame for a lifetime's supply of free beer from the pub of your choice.
I would ask Arno up front, could it even be done in a time frame so narrow and a field so wide? Could I personally compare it to landing a Jumbo Jet on the width of a runway instead of the length. Last guy that did that made the remark, "D*mn, that's the shortest runway I've ever seen.....pause..... but it's also the widest". BTW, he doesn't work for the airlines anymore!
I think you need a drink or three... ha..ha.. ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
It is really not that big of a job.
You write 1 and get approval. You generate teh rest from a database.
But heck, I would want more money.
Many thanks all for the responses. I decided today to turn down the offer. I didn't even haggle the price. Price wasn't important-- not immediately-- the deadline was of more concern.
With a full time job occupying my mind already, and the prospect of three months of mayhem in front of me with students going ape--shiiit to finish their projects for their deadline I just felt I couldn't take it on with the deadlines required by the publisher. If they'd said Dec. '04 instead of mid- end July '04, then maybe?
The task is enormous, and as far as I'm concerned in my situation, it's unrealistic. There's a lot of double--treble, even quadruple checking, and all your ducks have to be in a neat row to prevent sharp eyed buggers, like Knots contributors, queering your pitch, ha, ha.
Best to let the opportunity slide past me. I also don't think I'm really qualified to be a wood guru. I'm just a wood-whacker-- I've used lots of different woods, but I'm not a wood scientist or technologist.
I did offer to contribute to the introduction, the timber technology bit, and even translate it into Americanise for the non-British reader, etc., which they might take up, but to put the whole shebang together on my own in just 3-1/2 months was too overwhelming. I'd need to be unemployed or under employed to do it really. Slainte.
RJFurniture
Edited 4/5/2004 3:26 pm ET by Sgian Dubh
Like the others have said, a lot of stress, a lot of work, and a tight deadline.
I wouldn't be surprised if you did it anyway, just to be contrary. If you do, let us know. I'll buy it!
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