I want to learn to hand cut dove tails. I plan to try to cut one or two each evening, do lots of reading and stick to it until I either “get it” or explode from frustration and take up stamp collecting…
I have an old saw with the steel band on the top, (what do they call them???), from a Craftsman miter box, but I don’t think it’s suitable for this kind of work, the teeth are too coarse. It seems more useful for proping doors open and collecting rust.
What kind of saw would you recommend? Pull saw or push saw? Can the saw be used “out of the box” or does it need special sharpening?
Alternately, does anyone know a good source of stamps… ;^)
Replies
How much are you willing to spend on a saw? Tell me a budget, and I'll tell you some options.
What sort of marking tools do you have? A wheel gauge is very helpful and a bevel gauge or dovetail marker. A small square or saddle square is good to have too.
What sort of chisels do you have? You'll at least need a 3/8ths or so bench chisel.
local post office and possibly craigslist ;)
I belive pull saws are pretty good, but you may want to use a dovetail saw because that's what it's called
"It is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer: it feels so good when you stop"
You'd probably learn more from a good video than from reading about it. Chris Gochnour had a good one on the FW site recently.
Sounds like you have a backsaw.
You'll probably get as many recommendations for push as for pull saws, so that'll leave you no further ahead ;^). I started out with a Japanese saw, which worked well even though it wasn't the optimal rip cut. I never was really comfortable with it though -- something to do with the angle of the handle. I've since bought a push saw, which feels better, but haven't had a chance to try it out properly yet. Whatever type you get should work straight out of the box. I wouldn't mortgage the farm to buy the best until you know what you're comfortable with. There's a wide range of dovetail saws available from the likes of Lee Valley to get you started. If you want a really good custom one you might have to go on a waiting list anyway!
Incidentally, you'll need more than a dovetail saw. Depending on the method you use you'll likely need a couple of chisels and some kind of fretsaw as well.
Good luck, Jim
Get Frank Klausz’s DVD on cutting DT’s it is great and you’ll get more from that than just about any other source. As to tools, I use a bow saw filed to a rip configuration and all my chisels are flea market finds that I have tuned up.
Hand cut DT’s are not that difficult, just keep practicing.
AS noted, the Frank Klausz Making a Handcut Dovetailed Drawer video or DVD is a great start. Went through it four, five or six times while putting together instructions I could take to the shop and do what I saw on each page. He covers a LOT of ground, with plenty of tips and tricks, and even though he repeats the information three or four times during the video, you may miss something critical.SO - download these "pages" (which are GIF image files) and print these instructions. Take them to your workbench and do what you see.Oh - start by doing just a half pin on each end of one part and one tail on the other.http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/DovetailDrawer/DovetailDrawer0.html
I think you meant this for “northhouguy”, I’ve been hand cutting DT’s for twenty years.
Sorry for replying to the wrong person. I believe you brought up the Frank Klausz video and I wanted to add the instructions AFTER your message. Still getting the hang of this forum - different than some of the others I participate in.charlie belden
I am mid-range, skill wise. Closer to beginner than expert, But really, dovetails are not that hard. They are a matter of cutting to a line. Sure, they take practice, and you won't be Frank Klauz or Rob Cosman in a day, but dovetails are not the pinnacle of woodworking. They are a utilitarian joint that can be made as simply or complicated as you like. Despite a recent cover of FWW which said "The 5-Minute Dovetail - Overcome your Fear." I am afraid of disease and terrorism, not dovetails. Dive in an start cutting. Try using tools you already have and see what you need. People use everything from bow saws to Japanese saws to cut them. I thought of them as something to aspire to a few years back, and was a little intimidated...until I actually started cutting them, and found them to be not that difficult. Err on the inside of the line and you can trim to fit with a sharp chisel. This is not meant to be condescending in any way, it is simply from one novice to another, jump in, the water's fine. The one tool I think makes a difference is a wheel gauge, as another poster mentioned. It makes the line so much cleaner. I hesitated posting this for fear that it sounds arrogant. If is does, I did not mean it that way.
ThreePuttJoe is right. Next time you eat pay attention to the muscle groups your using. It is actully harder to eat than to cut dovetails.
The hand eye cordination is amazing. I bet you could put a hamburger in your mouth and bite with your eyes closed.
Now start using a spoon or fork and the complexity goes up tenfold. Add a knife to the equation and WOW!
Cutting dovetails by hand is far easier than eating. I watch my daughter every night trying to learn to eat with a spoon, and it's not that easy.
So in summary if you can eat you can hand cut dovetails. Dovetail jigs are a waste of money unless you building an entire kitchen, and even then I wouldn't waste my money.
As for the tools, you need a chisel, a saw (I would recomend a Lie Nielson dovetail saw), a marking gauge and marking knife. and a little scrap wood to practice.
Don't waste your time marking the angles and spacing, just cut them by eye. cut them wide enough for your chisel to fit in.
Always cut tails first. Then you can gang your drawer sides together and cut them all at once. (I will do up to 6 sides at a time).
But just practice some and you'll do fine.
When I do dovetails for a project the first thing I do is reach for the cord end and............
:) Paul
Hey Dovetail cutter- I was you once and and started in the same place-
I bought a mid priced dozuki pull saw- 35-45 bucks (WoodCraft)
I used a sharp knife and a combo square for my layout tools
I read an article by someone famous and followed the steps.
I had really sharp chisels (when end grain pairs away like butter)
I started cutting on a blank of 4/4 maple 6" width (The blade wanders when you are a beginner so I chose a hard straight grained material to learn on)
I only cut 2 tails /3 pins per trial so I could get immediate gratification and mess with the fit.
Once I gained confidence, I started cutting 5 tails at a time of various sizes just for fun.
It is a pretty fun way to pass the time and no loud roar of power tools.
I bought better tools a few years later but my dovetails are not better because of the tools- my layout is faster.
good luck
Dave
On the Tage Frid video that comes with his box set of woodworking books, he demonstrates hand cutting dovetails with a frame/bow saw with a rip blade. That is what I am going to use, I just ordered three different blades for my saw at $9.00/per blade. What's not to like in that price!! But...now I have to build the saw frame! Should be a fun project and not take much time at all. I'm looking forward to it. Then I'll have a very good saw, with a variety of uses including cutting dovetails, and it will look cool on my wall to boot! I believe this saw will be a very good addition to my tool collection. Good luck.
Jeff
I use a bow saw(s) myself, that Tage Frid seminar I took years ago left some indelible marks, (including scrapers that are always sharp), his FWW article from the Fall issue of 1977 covers them well. Those saws really work and at the price of the blades you can build a bunch of them. Simon Watts did a great article in FWW #51, March 1985 on making them, (back from when FWW was tops…).
I cut dovetails with a Japanese (pull) saw for ~10 years, and got reasonably good.
I switched to Western saws about 5 years ago, and I now prefer them. I cut much better dovetails now, of course I'm also much more experienced now.
The biggest complaint I have with using a pull saw is that the sawdust covers the cut line. I have to keep blowing dust out of the way to see the line. When I cut too many, it makes me dizzy...
-t
I recommend the Dozuki Z saw---you can get it at Woodcraft or Rockler for around $41. Easy to use and nice thin kerf. I also recommend Lonnie Bird's video on dovetails. Great instruction broken down into doable steps and he gives tool recommendations as well. Dovetails are not hard to learn. It just takes practice. Good luck. BTW, I'm in Humble. Tom
Hi Northhouguy
I had been cutting hand-cutting dovetails for a while before building ####spice cabinet, but if I had to recommend a project to get good at hand-cutting them, it would be that.
There are some reasons--
1. You blow a piece, it's a small piece and it doesn't hurt to throw it away.
2. The tail pieces are thin, and easy to get right.
3. I made all my drawers with half-blind dovetails, but there'd be nothing wrong with cutting them as through dovetails.
4. Thin tail pieces mean little chiseling.
5. There are just hundreds, and by the time you get done, you will be fluent.
Being either lazy or pragmatic (depending on your viewpoint) I cut all major carcase dovetails with my Leigh dovetail jig. I find that the ability to clamp a carcase side flat is an incredible advantage. I will cut drawer dovetails by hand for all small work, though. It's the mix that works for me.
Best,
Chuck
one thing that can not be overemphasized is the need to have sharp chisels. there is nothing that turns a woodworker off of handcut dt's faster than trying to work with a dull chisel. brand new chisels are by and large not nearly sharp enough to work with. you need to know how to sharpen and hone your chisels to have good and satisfying handcut results.
An article by Frank Klause was the single biggest help to me as far as figuring out how to do dovetails goes.
Try and look at this picture tutorial, it may help:
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=50670
Let me know if it does.
Good luck. Good wood. Good times.
D.L.
Edited 8/10/2008 8:55 am by labolle
D.L. Do you remember where you saw the article? I searched FWW.com and didn't get a hit. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'll look. It was a magazine article. I have it here somewhere. I'm not sure if it was in F.W.W. or another mag.
Edited 8/11/2008 1:07 am by labolle
Thanks, Labolle, appreciate it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Frank Klausz's Final Word On Dovetails.
Popular Woodworking October 2005 Issue #150 page 46
................................................
You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. Jack London
39977.23 in reply to 39977.22
Frank Klausz's Final Word On Dovetails.
Popular Woodworking October 2005 Issue #150 page 46
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http://www.popularwoodworking.com/magazineindex?mid=12103
Thanks dgreen. I think that is the one. The time of publishing is about right. I need to find it and take a look inside to be sure, but no matter which article of his you look at, I'm pretty sure his approach to dovetails will be the same:
-Learn to cut three basic cuts by hand/eye feel: slanted left, slanted right, and straight up and down.
Edited 8/11/2008 10:14 pm by labolle
Edited 8/11/2008 11:51 pm by labolle
Thanks, Don!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I agree with the comment of having your chisels "scary sharp". It makes all the difference in the world. I cut a pretty darn good dovetail and I do it with a simple pull style saw that can be found at the Depot or Lowes for $12. Someone else said it accurately "it is only cutting to a line". I found my best results in cutting comes from getting the saw started in the kerf. I start with my saw tip up about 45 degrees from horizontal and then with the first few strokes bring the tip down to cut the mark across the board. When I get this right the rest is simply letting the saw follow the kerf down the line. I have yet to produce a good dovetail without getting the start right.
I also found it very handy when cutting tails to angle the piece from vertical in the vice to make the mark vertical and not the piece.
Placing ones feet so you move your arm across the body instead of trying to push and pull out away from your shoulder and back will give you alot better control of your stroke.
Make sure that the downward pressure is on the pull stroke. Let the push go with just the weight of the saw. This prevents the blade from flexing.
Hi,
I prefer Western saws. Lie Nielsen makes an excellent dovetail saw. (15 points per inch) Its' teeth are filed to a rip profile.
Definitely worth the $125 price tag!
You'd be amazed at how little practice it takes to master this saw. You'll be an expert in no time. Works right out of the box!
This saw is a joy to use. It cuts a straight line like nothing I've ever used before.
Wanda
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