I have this wonderful dream of a mahogany library. Those of you who know me also know that I tend to be the cheapest person on the planet regarding buying wood..
It seems that there might be an oppertunity in the near future to go to central America on business. I’m certain that Honduras Mahogany is cheaper in central America than here.. I’d imagine the freight on a bunker or two of mahogany is the same cost for me as for anyone else so that shouldn’t be a factor. Whatever import duty is due would be the same for me as a regular importer.
Those of you who read my posts know that I buy at or near the market price (sometimes a bit lower) so my costs will be the same as for a regular importer.
Frankly, I’m looking a gift horse in the mouth and wondering why not? Anybody have any experiance with this sort of thing? Any thoughts on the subject?
Replies
Will me your wood collection just in case.
Worked for an outfit once that made wireguided systems for forklift trucks. Had one delivered from SouthAmerica and I believe the pallet was mahogany 4x4's light but strong.
The only regular importers I know are antiques dealers who have starting bringing in containers from Europe to keep their inventory up. Don't know if talking to one o' them would help you or not, since it's a different part of the world, but if you see an "Antiques" store with a bunch of stuff that looks like it (a) came out of a British hotel in the 1930's or (b) came out of France in the early 1900's, those are the guys.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I suspect the best way to do this would be for a group of woodworkers to approach an importer who could work on their behalf. He could handle the legal stuff and knows the ropes.
Bioman,
That's exactly the guy I want to avoid.. he has his markup and I would rather not pay it..
Besides in my experiance the really great wood isn't at the sawmill everybody goes to, rather it's in the boonies where when they get a piece of highly figured wood they toss it aside since they know it won't grade well and their buyer is always so picky..
(that's what happened to the most expensive wood on the market) It's also How I got my 917 bd.ft. of burl.
What I was thinking of was to get a list of sawmills for the country I'll be at and go there and visit, looking into their scrap wood pile for just such a tree.
Once I've found the wood I want it'll bea simple matter to contact various officals pay the correct amount of bribe and get my stuff on a boat headed to the US..
Only part of this is because I'm sooooooo cheap! a lot of it is for the pure adventure of finding the special piece of wood and knowing it's story when it goesup..
frenchy, bring back some Cuban mahogany, please?
Steve
Dirt Stirrer,
As I understand it the very few mahogany trees still standing in Cuba are considered national treasures and you spend a decade or so in cuban prisons if you cut one down..
Aren't they Honduras mahogany anyway? Tell me, are you just trying to get me in trouble ;-)
Frenchy,
Several years ago, here in the Kansas City area, I ran into a guy at the local enviromental "fair". His way of generating a living was to go to Costa Rica, pick up large stumps and logs that had washed down one of the rivers to the sea. He then rented a contanier and had it all shipped to one of the US southern costal cities. Apparently there were saw mills that would mill it all into lumber for him. His prices were just OK but he must have been making money to go to all that trouble. Most of the wood was species and shapes that I didn't need but the idea has always intrigued me. I have visited Central America and been amazed at seeing the rain forest, one of those Mahogany trees would easily fill a contanier.
Good luck with your adventure.
Dennis
http://www.bluemoonexoticwood.com/index1.html These guys own their own plantation. Give em a call. I'm sure they know the rules and regs. (don't look at their prices Frenchy, you'll have a heart attack!) Jimmy.
Edited 4/19/2005 11:08 am ET by EXHIBITOR
Edited 4/19/2005 11:08 am ET by EXHIBITOR
Wow!
talk about stickershock!
Note: they list their plantation in the South Pacific but they sell "Cuban" mahogany yet the pictures they show are of Philipine Mahogany.. Hmmmm,
Honduras mahogany is much deeper red and less brown than their pictures...
Hi there, Xhibitor,
I have just recovered from a quick peek at that Blue Moon web site- they talk of mahogany being sustainably harvested- who are they fooling? Those don't look like branches in the photos. I bet Bacillus, sorry Basilius, and son don't even know the meaning of the word "sustainable".
Apart from this minor winge, I would like to get hold of some of that Narra timber- it is a Pterocarpus species, the very same as Muninga which is being sent into the U.S from Mozambique- a fine timber- maybe the originator of this thread would think about getting it in addition to mahogany?
Frenchy,
I used to live in Panama. We were able to get all the local exotic hardwoods at a mere fraction of the prices here in the US. The economies are very different.
There have been major changes in export laws recently however that will affect your plans. In Panama they have recently prohibited the exportation of "raw lumber". Basically this was done to protect their own forest from being exploited by foreigners. The concept is that in raw lumber only the foresters make any $$ on the product. The solution now is that the export product must be some sort of finished profuct. This may include flooring ,finished moulding, doors, windows, furniture etc. Don't be put off by this however. If you are creative you may still find it very cheap to buy a container of wide flooring that will be useable in your library project.
I know another guy who had all his doors, cabinets, and trim for his new office made in a shop in Honduras. The labor was reasonable and offset the shipping charges.
What countries are you going to be visiting?
good luck, hugh
I’m a woodworker in Mexico City. I question my suppliers re whether their lumber comes from sustainable plots. I never get an answer that satisfies and it is an issue that concerns me. Mexico has the largest variety of pine, around 125 species if I remember correctly. The states of Durango and Michoacan are being deforested at an incredible rate. I’ll go to one of my suppliers and there al always 3-4 guys stickering the little labels/bar codes on the ends of 1x2 & 2x4 that is being shipped up to Home Depot. I don’t know how much they export, but it seems they’re always loading up a huge flatbed.My mahogany supplier just got in several hundred thousand board feet. He says it came from Guatemala. He doesn’t know if it’s sustainable. I’m inclined to think it might be. It appears to be second-growth and it’s milled and dried extremely well (9%MC). At 12” width and less (4/4) I pay $3.60 bd. ft. I still draw from his older inventory which he says came from the state of Tabasco here in Mexico. Nice stuff, definitely virgin (or so I think). 8/4 and 12/4 x 24” wide not uncommon - $7 a bd. ft. Then there’s my sheet-goods supplier. Some of what I buy there are stamped as coming from sustainable growths in Chile and Peru. They had some solid stock not too long ago in 8/4 that came from Peru and was cheaper to buy than pine here at $1.85. Very very similar to mahogany but lighter in weight and color. It goes by two names here, banack and camal. (You’ve got many common names – it can get very confusing.) There’s a large door manufacturer that uses it exclusively and sells to Home Depot here; I imagine you have it up there (US).Anyways, thought y’all might enjoy a little more info.Craig
If you're going to do this, you will need at a minimum two professional firms....a freight forwarder to arrange the logistics and insurance (and yes, they can get freight rates that are much lower than you could), and a customs broker to deal with the import and export regulations. It would be nuts to try it without them; many, many experienced importers do this routinely. I'm one course away from a certificate in international trade, and wouldn't consider doing it without the pros.
You'll have to think about the quantities.....either a 20 foot or 40 foot container is best; costs a lot more to ship in LCL (Less than Container Load) quantities. And, like one poster mentioned, depending where you are looking, you may not be able to ship raw lumber at all....everyone is trying to boost their value-added industries, and it is much more difficult to ship logs and lumber than it used to be. It's also getting more restrictive in where some materials can be shipped because of rules about temperate climates (bugs that can live in one place could also live in a similar climate)....which is why a friend of mine (exotic wood dealer) has the international market in thuya burl sewn up, because it CAN be exported to Canada, but CAN'T to the U.S.
The State Dept. will have a trade section on their website, with guides to new importers and exporters....it's a complex process, and you need to do your homework.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
The only regular importers I know are are drug dealers.. I live in Chicago...
Sounds like there is a little Indiana Jones in your blood. There are all kinds of stories about folks who have set up there own connections in Latin America. Why not some crazy gringo that wants to buy crooked lumber?
Hey Frenchy, A good friend of mine and his architect buddy went down to Costa
Rica or Honduras floating a river. when they were back in the hills in a little hotel, they were blown away by the wood trim, and decided to shop for the yet to be built house trim package. the architect specified all of the doors and trim in some great looking trim, and even the flooring which was a full inch thick almond wood. It took two containers to get it all up here, but they claim that it was cheaper than buying local products.
The biggest caveat was that they didn't dry it far enough. they probably don't need to for their rain-forest atmosphere. His flooring installer panicked when he metered it, so they called me to consult. I brought some end-cuts home and zapped them to oven-dry while measuring their shrinkage and weight. These were 1 X 6" boards and they all contracted about 40 -50 thousandths which took a little while due to density and thickness. So beware that you will need to let this stuff winter over in your new house before you do the library unless you want to be looking into cracks or large putty lines forever-after. But hey, This just means that you don't need to use a humidifier for yet another winter.
This train of thought leads me to wonder. With all of that moisture coming out of that green wood in your house that you have been breathing, as you breath it in and it gets absorbed into your body. Isn't this virtually the way they make wood alcohol? Do you wake up feeling a little drunk each morning? Ha Ha How wood you know.
Rootburl,
AH HAH! That's it, I'm drunk!
wood alcohol fumes,,, sure explains a lot doesn't it!
seriously what do you know about drying mahogany? is it like white oak or black walnut nearly impossible to screw up? or is is more like Maple where exact conditions need to be met or you'll lose it..
Frenchy,
It is possible that the import duty and freight costs are going to be much the same for you as for a regular importer. Insurance is likely to be more expensive though, and I doubt that the foreign merchant will give you the same price on the timber as he does to his regular distributors in the USA. It is also likely that you will be asked to pay in full on order or provide a Letter of Credit from your local bank, which is quite expensive. Consider also your risk on foreign exchange fluctuations and the cost of buying currency forward.
Unless you're in that line of business, I'd suggest you consider doing a bulk order cash-up-front deal with your local merchant.
Regards
Fiddleback,
Are you suggesting you are going to go to central america, overcome the language barrier, make a listing of sawmills, visit them, purchase wood, get it in containers, deal with import laws, ship it to N.A., unloaded, inspected, reloaded on truck and shipped to your house? All this while taking care of your "business" responsibilities on your visit?
When are you going to find time to learn how to post a picture of your finished library?
I buy from a retailer who buys from importers. The retailer buys for $4/bdft and sells to me for about $7-10/bdft. I am happy with the price differential.
I don't think you can import for much less than $4/bdft. You might be better off dealing with an importer.
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