Replies

1. 
   rmk | Oct 22, 2007 06:31am | #1

   Don't be so negative about drum sanders. I recently purchased a Powermatic 24" double drum sander which has turned out to be a great machine. I sand some tough woods such as Koa and ebony and have not had a problem. It has plenty of power, 5 hp, and does not slowdown at all. The sand paper last a lot longer then I would have thought. It is considerably cheaper than a wide belt and works better then the less expensive wide belts. It comes in a 25" or 37" wide models. As far as an open end sander that is one I would stay away from. Good luck in finding a sander.

1. 
   Woodman880 | Oct 22, 2007 06:56am | #2

   As an owner of a drum sander perhaps you can tell me about your experience in relation to what I want to do. I am interested in a sander that can level out boards I have glued together. Obviously I try to get them as close as possible when I glue them, however when I’m dealing with long boards, sometimes they can be out of alignment in spots as much as 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch. Do you recommend a drum sander for leveling out such a situation? I’ve heard drum sanders don’t work real well leveling out boards.

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Oct 22, 2007 01:54pm | #4

   Whoa! Glue-ups out of alignment by 1/4"? If that's the case, correction would reduce the thickness of the glued-up piece by 1/2" (1/4" each side). Sanders are usually not used to thickness a piece this much -- that's what planers are for.

   Sounds like you'd be better served by improving your glue-up technique. There are a number of ways to improve your glue-ups that will reduce, or eliminate, this problem. First, you can often correct this problem by starting to clamp at one end and adjusting the elevations of the pieces as you work your way to the other end with clamps. Biscuits often get a bad rap, but they are perfect for aligning long gluelines. Dowels work well too. As another poster suggested, cauls are a third way. Any of these methods will work well, will cost a lot less than a wide belt sander, and will avoid needlessly making large quantities of expensive sawdust. ;-)

   That said, I'm still a bit puzzled about your original question. How long is "long"? How thick are these pieces that end up 1/4" out of alignment? How is the stock prepared prior to glue-up? All these things may bear on how to best solve the problem.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

1. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 24, 2007 03:43am | #16

   negative comments I’ve heard about drum sanders..I tend to agree with Mike.. Tend? I agree! Yes a drum sander or belt sander can 'flatten' some sticks but I do not think that is what they are designed to do. ( I do use mine to do it though ) Never tell anybody!

2. 
   rmk | Oct 22, 2007 07:55pm | #6

   I would say that it will work fine. I can put a course grit on the front drum and a finer grit on the rear drum which alows you to sand more wood off on each pass. It may take a little longer than a planer but does go quickly. As far a being flat you will get just as good flattness as a wide belt as long as you don't have an open ended unit. I always use it to sand my laminated table tops flat and other veneered panels and have not had a problem. I even used it on a face frame with no dips.I previously had a Performax 16-32 which I had several problems with such as the long time it took to sand the wood, about twice as long as my Powermatic, the open end would pop up when I inserted a board. The Performax is light duty and not ment for business use. The object is to get a good quality unit. I checked out several drum sanders at the AWFS show and thought Powermatic was the best quailty. I also thought the General and the Steel City sanders were ok. 

3. 
   Hastings | Oct 23, 2007 12:43am | #9

   Woodman:"I’m dealing with long boards, sometimes they can be out of alignment in spots as much as 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch."Are you not trying to solve the wrong problem? If you could get more accurate alignment along the full length of the board, you wouldn't need to think of such aggressive sanding to get to a smooth surface.Why not get a Festool Domino? It will align those boards and add to the strength as well as give you a far more versatile tool for many other tasks.Regards,Hastings

4. 
   Dave45 | Oct 24, 2007 07:24pm | #20

   At the risk of being insulting, I think you should take a long look at your gluing technique.  Some misalignment is almost inevitable (for me, anyway - lol), but 1/8" is too much and 1/4" is outrageous.

   Assuming that you're prepping your stock correctly (straight edges, square with the face, etc), I would suspect your gluing and clamping methods.  Too much glue will allow the boards to slip as they're clamped, too much (or too little) clamping pressure can cause problems.  Trying to force a bowed board into alignment can be a problem. You may force it straight, but it will want to curve again and may move while in the clamps.

   Are you using biscuits, dowels, etc.  The argument about biscuits adding strength to a joint continues unabated, but there's little debate about them helping with alignment.

1. 
   Woodman880 | Oct 24, 2007 07:50pm | #21

   1/8th, 1/4 is an occasional occurrence because the boards were not planed, etc. I’m just looking for a simple way to slap 2 boards together and sand them down.

1. 
   frenchy | Oct 24, 2007 09:46pm | #22

   Woodman,

    Then in that case run them thru a planer.. sanders don't take that much off per pass.   1/4 inch would require as many as ten passes depending on..........

2. 
   Dave45 | Oct 24, 2007 11:45pm | #23

   Woodman -

   I with Frenchy on the idea of planing instead of sanding.  When I mentioned stock prep, I assumed that you were using dimensioned lumber.  My bad. - lol 

   You can get one of those "lunch box" planers for a decent price (I have a Delta 12.5" that works just fine) and one pass thru it will equal a dozen passes thru a sander.

   It took some practice on my part, but my glueups come out pretty good and a few minutes work with a scraper and/or a ROS fixes whatever problems I get.

2. 
   RickL | Oct 22, 2007 01:20pm | #3

   Have you considerd a stroke sander? Friends and I have bought and seen them for as little as $200 for industrial grade machines. It is my first choice over a drum sander and even when we had a widebelt we always had a stroke sander in the shops I've worked in. A widebelt for $1,000 new is a dream and not realistic. A new stroke sander is $1700.
   stroke sanders are one of thee best kept secrets in woodworking.

   You might try curved cauls for your glue ups. I can glue up a 4' x 8' panel in one shot with perfect alignment. I always plane my lumber to finish thickness before gluing up and only have to sand the planer marks off.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/22/2007 6:23 am ET by RickL

1. 
   Woodman880 | Oct 22, 2007 04:36pm | #5

   Stroke sanders are a mystery to me, I'll check into them.

1. 
   RickL | Oct 22, 2007 08:18pm | #7

   You will not find much info on stroke sanders. It was briefly covered in soem of the early FWW but I've never seen any in depth operational info on the subject. I would have to say I'm pretty much an authority on the subject having used them extensively over the years for wood and metal. SCMI, Grizzly, Progress Machine, Woodtek and many others make and sell them. As usual FWW falls short on real world info for the small shop.

   You need to fix your aligning problem with your panels. The curved caul would be the perfect solution.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 24, 2007 03:44am | #17

   The curved caul would be the perfect solution.AND a FLAT! surface to clamp to!

1. 
   RickL | Oct 24, 2007 01:30pm | #18

   The panel is between pairs of curved cauls every 12" or so. The cauls rest on a couple of beams. This is your flat surface. It's basicallly a poor mans Plano clamping system only better. The Plano cauls are flat which doesn't keep the middle of the panel from shifting the boards and the curved caul method uses clamps already in most all home shops. It's based on a very old method for clamping veneers and is so simple but not many folks seem to know about it.

2. 
   brad805 | Oct 22, 2007 11:37pm | #8

   Given you have used them could you explain a little more about the benefits of a stroke sander?  Do they still leave the sanding marks that people complain about with the drum sanders ?

   Thanks

1. 
   RickL | Oct 23, 2007 01:40am | #11

   It's basically a large belt sander which will give a finish that can go right to staining and finishing. Drum sanders leave ripples kind of similar to the finish that you get from a planer. A stroke sander would be considered a finish sander. With practice one can sand veneers and even marquetry. I know of a casting company that uses it to sand bronze plaques. A few years back I purchased a Mattison industrial stroke sander for $700 to duplicate a hand sanding technique the shop owner previously thought could only be done by tedious hand sanding. We have done special finishes on brass, aluminum and stainless steel with perfect results and hours of labor saved.Many small shops use a stroke sander to sand doors, panels, even dovetailed drawers. It appears the drum sander has eclipsed the stroke sander but only because there aren't enough people left who know how to use these great machines. They do take up more space and are a bit tricky to learn own your own but they are still one of the best forgotten machines around.I am a big advocate of the slot mortiser (pre-domino) but still think and know for a fact the curved caul would solve your problem on panel glue ups which is pretty low tech and uses clamps you already have in your shop. So work smarter, not harder and more expensive.

1. 
   brad805 | Oct 23, 2007 02:00am | #12

   Thanks for explaining.  I have seen these on exfactory, the woodweb and felder's site, but being a hobbiest I have never had the chance to use one.  Now I know.

3. 
   frenchy | Oct 23, 2007 01:33am | #10

   Woodman,

    I'm happy as heck with my drum sander.. Grizzly  it does things that my planer won't do. 

1. 
   Woodman880 | Oct 23, 2007 03:43am | #13

   What Grizzly model do you own? Would you recommend it for leveling out boards that have been glued together?

1. 
   frenchy | Oct 23, 2007 10:17pm | #14

   Woodman880

     G0458, It's fine on those.   Where it really shines is on wide planks  I have many planks much wider than my 20 inch planer will handle and it is the only solution for those..

    They are heavy bruled planks that look like a topographical map of the world as I start to sand them but when finished become as smooth as a baby's butt..

    

1. 
   Woodman880 | Oct 24, 2007 02:58am | #15

   You won’t believe this but that model drum sander is the exact one I was considering. I’m just unsure. Your recommendation sounds strong but I’ve read a lot of negatives about drum sanders. Everyone seems to agree they should all come with outfeed support. People talk about having trouble keeping the mechanism level inside, and they say the machines don’t do a very good job at leveling out glued boards. And I’ve heard some other things. I’m thinking about getting a new hand held belt sander that can be attached to a rectangular support brace that will hold it level as I sand.

1. 
   frenchy | Oct 24, 2007 03:09pm | #19

   Woodman,

    Well, Before My drum sander I tried to do things with my belt sander.. I have several 4x24 belt sanders and while they certainly had a place I wound up with a less than flat panel when I used them..  there is a tremendous amount of skill and patience needed to use a belt sander to flatten a panel out.

    If you have as much variation as you claim in your glue ups I would certainly use a little powered hand planer to remove most of it. because drum sanders work but they don't plow thru wood like a planner will but a planner wide enough to quickly plow thru wood is several thousand dollars at minimum. Plus planers have their own issues..

    Outfeed support is something that you should make rather than expect to have already attached.. I handle wood over 18 feet long so naturally my outfeed tables are larger than yours would be.. If you can get by with a 36 inch outfeed that is what size you need however when I work with boards up to 4 feet long I don't use any outfeed.. I mean the boards don't come shooting out like a rocket, so I can feed them in to about mid point and then calmly walk around to the other side and guide them out.