EDIT: Just to clear up some confusion, let me say that I am not asking about “cheap” or “junky” woods to make cheap and junky furniture. Rather, I’m asking if ya’ll know of any great woods for making furniture, woods that are beautiful, nice to work with, and take a good finish, but that are still relatively inexpensive. There are woods out there that meet these criteria. And you can make truly fine furniture from them. So, with that in mind, please read on and add your thoughts. END EDIT.
What do you do when the prices of your favorite furniture woods, like cherry and walnut, keep going up but the economy and the money you have to spend on wood have taken a downturn? Well, I need your help to answer that question. Do you know of a good alternative to traditional (and often expensive) furniture woods? I like ash. It’s widely available on the east coast (where I live), can be had for just a few dollars a board foot, isn’t too hard to work. And, to top it off, it has a lovely color.
If you have a particular favorite, let me know. I’m working on an article about just this topic, and we’d like to hear from our readers. Ya’ll (as we say back home in the South) are all over the country, and might know of a great, under-the-radar, wood.
You can post a response in this thread, or send me a PM.
Thanks. Matt
This is my personal signature.
Edited 1/31/2009 6:24 pm ET by MKenney
Replies
Out here in Utah, Alder, and it's brother, Knotty Alder are readily available at low cost. Although softer than cherry and walnut, I have made a few pieces with it and they turned out great. Also, obviously, recycled hardwoods can be found in a lot of unusual places if one is willing to ask, search and do some demolition.
lostcreek
Thanks, lostcreek. Alder seems to be a popular choice. I've already had several people mention it to me.This is my personal signature.
After reading the pre headline suggesting "non junk woods" I'm glad to see so many mention Pine. It is cheaper than most anything else around here in Florida, however the box stores around my area (Belleview) sell really crappy stuff at top dollar prices.
I have made several pieces of my grandkids furniture out of Pine, and D. Fir I've used both clear and color on both, with great results. And for those that think Pine is easy to work with, it can be very taxing. It swells & shrinks per day, it's real soft and can be over sanded or planed in a heartbeat. It does take time do do "shaped" projects.
And As I've said, you can get some real nice tint variations on Pine
Harry
[email protected]
m,
sometimes it's nice to get away from serious walnut, cherry, mahogany and the like and just relax with some cheap big box pine. one worries less about wasteful mistakes, it's easy to work and easy to finish, doesn't cost much and if i get to the big box the day after a lumber delivery, i can pick through some good stuff.
eef
eef,You can certainly find good lumber at home centers. Of course, if you're going to use it for furniture, you need to make sure it's dry. That's especially true of any construction grade lumber. Thanks for your suggestion.This is my personal signature.
Hi Matt ,
Depending on the project I think the answer may be to purchase the material of choice but only in lower grades #1 common and such , some grade into narrows as well .I just bought Eastern QSWO here in Oregon but in a narrows common grade and paid like just over $3.00 bf .
Rustic Oak sells for about $1.50 bf , Eastern soft Maple would be my #1 choice for usually $2.00 per bf or less , pennies more then Poplar but much more integrity .
regards dusty,a boxmaker
Dusty,Buying lower grades of wood is a good suggestion. My only concern would be finding them at a retail lumberyard. I'll look into for sure. Thanks.This is my personal signature.
Matt , You asked for alternatives for the higher priced lumbers, typically any hardwood retailer/ wholesaler distributor that caters to the industry can get or will often carry a variety of grades in the same specie , especially Cherry .
Call any cabinet shop tell them what you are looking for see what they tell you , they may have what you need or send you to the source or get it for you if there is no listing under Hardwoods in the Yellow pages I would be surprised .
Whether the average consumer knows it or not , some of the sheet goods may be a different grade then a cabinet industry hardwood supplier may have when you get it from a big box store or a retail lumber yard .Some of the products they carry are really designed to be consumed by the DIY market as opposed to FWWers or professionals . They can order most anything though if they want to.
Often times the retail lumber yards lumber is surfaced down to 3/4" on hardwoods and less on softwoods , a face frame 3/4" is fine , but frame & panel doors , drawer faces and ends and such become too thin . Typically the supplier will mill 4/4 to 13/16" , so after surfacing a glue up or door frame it is still thicker then 3/4" and not like 11/16" . I know it does not sound like a big deal but it should be known and taken into consideration when purchasing materials.
regards dusty
Dusty,All your points are good ones, and I'll keep them in mind as I'm pulling all this information together. Although, I don't think I'll recommend to our readers that they call pro shops to source woods. I hate to think of the mail I'd get if hundreds of thousands of woodworkers started calling their local pros!MattThis is my personal signature.
I hate to think of the mail I'd get if hundreds of thousands of woodworkers started calling their local pros!
You might be surprised. There isn't a pro I know who wouldn't be willing to help a little guy out. That includes sources for lumber, etc. You just can't take advantage of a pro's time, like ask him to sand your tabletop for 30 minutes on his widebelt for free.
Lee
I think there are a combination of things you can do to reduce cost, and it's not just about settling for inferior materials. For example, my lumber yard gives a 50 cent discount on volumes of 50 BF, and $1 over 100 BF (mix and match does count). So I plan further ahead now and buy enough material for two projects at once to get to the discount minimums. Secondly, I can save up to $1/BF by buying shorts. Shorts are usually lengths under 6 feet, which is fine for most furniture projects. So between shorter lenghts and higher volumes, I can save almost $2/BF. Aside from that, this is also a good time to look at different finishing techniques such as glazing. Less expensive, but high quality species such as ash can be made to look like walnut or cherry if you use a good glazing technique (which obscures the grain a bit, and hides the fact that this isn't the real deal). So apply rules 1 and 2, along with cheaper species, and you can spend 1/3 what you normally would for furniture stock.
Buying in bulk is a good tip. However, I do want to make clear, for everyone's benefit, that I am not suggesting that anyone should make furniture from inferior wood, whatever that might be. I'm asking for woods that are great furniture woods, but aren't as expensive as walnut, cherry, and mahogany are.I've been told about some great regional woods, and about some great ways to get any wood at less than retail price.So thanks.This is my personal signature.
Completely agree, I have not compromised on materials at all yet, and I was even recently laid off! Believe it or not, by buying shorts and hitting a 50BF minimum, I just scored real Honduran 4/4 mahogany for $7/BF. And I'm in the Boston area, where lumber is typically more expensive than most other regions.
I think part of this is going to depend on what you are looking for and even more where you are located. I can get cherry at my main supplier (a bit of a drive but worth it if I am going that way or need a lot of wood) cheeper then I can get almost anything else. So I tend to default to cherry. I know that others have commented on cherry being more pricy. So I think this may vary.
Doug M
Cherry at a good price is hard to come by in most locations. Of course, if you happen to life in PA, then you've hit the jackpot for walnut and cherry.Also, I've definitely picked up on the emphasis on buying regional lumber. In other words, the empahsis on buying what grows in abundance where you live. It's something I've always done, but I'm glad that so many others do too.This is my personal signature.
I haven't bought any wood yet, I use reclaimed skids mostly. Made my patio furniture out of it and it's lasted quite well the past few years. From hardwood skids I get oak, usually. A bit of work ,granted, but can turn out quite nice. I trimmed a case I made for my ring clip pliers in quartersawn. Sometimes machinery crates are made of teak or mahogany veneered plywood. Of course you should get permission to take such. You can also find some wood by tearing down old furniture, such as sofas or chairs. Good for small projects or trim, once the nails and staples are out.
Matt , Who is the target market of your writings ?
Are you catering to the DIY crowd or aspiring and accomplished makers ? I think you should recommend that your readers look for a real hardwoods dealer to purchase materials of any importance .There may be more sources then we realize . I have seen a few lumber yards that did have nice hardwoods they do still exist I think .
From someone who has owned and operated a cabinet shop for over 27 years I will tell you this , any materials left after a job are paid for at that point and is like money in the bank . I have always been happy to help if I have the material to spare , I can always buy more and it can be a source for fishing money or beer money or more tools .
regards dusty
Dusty,As with anything that we publish in the magazine, we hope that all of our readers would find it beneficial in some way. Even someone who's been building furniture for a long time might not have considered a wood like vertical grain douglas fir for furniture.As for the generosity of professional woodworkers, you don't have to convince me. I learned to make furniture from a guy who invited me into his shop, let me use his tools, gave me wood, spent hours upon hours helping me when I needed it (he taught me how to hammer veneer with hide glue, for example). And I know that many posters on Knots are pros, and give their time and knowledge to whoever asks. At any rate, thanks for your comments and time.MattThis is my personal signature.
I buy green lumber and air dry it myself. Local sawmills are great people to get to know. My last major purchase was two years ago (so I am just now beginning to use the wood) was 1800 bf of cherry and walnut at $0.80 per board foot. It's "run of the mill" so it turns out to be about 25% FAS, 25% #1, 25% #2 and 25% junk. But I am usually able to use about 85% to 90% of the wood, some of the lower grades, if structurally sound, get used in lieu of secondary woods on the interiors or backs of furniture. I have a couple people who call me when they get a load. I'm usually johnny on the spot with my flatbed trailer.
I know someone with a portable saw who can saw out boards for about ten cents a board foot. I have ash cherry and maple on my land and have him saw some every two years. Quite a lot of the wood is less than perfect but my teacher, who was Japanese, taught me about the Japanese aesthetic that holds that the best board is the imperfect one that has been lovingly patched or repaired. I think that it is called wabi sabi. My students are always looking in my shed for a board with a split in the end so they can let in a butterfly across it. I have no problem using a board where another piece of wood has been let in over a loose knot or some other flaw. Since I like to make my face frames and drawer faces and doors 7/8" I have the stock cut oversize and sticker it under cover for at least two years per inch.
I'll often do a prototype in pine while working out some of the trickier parts of a job - and I've even done a few finished pieces in it. I actually like the look of pine with a clear finish.
I've also done a few pieces in polar which can look very nice if you do a bit of cherry picking when buying the stock. Skip past the pieces with the green, purple, or black areas and grab the "white" boards.
Now that I'm getting into the Minwax water based stains, I'm finding that I can get a good finish without the blotching that wrecked so many projects before.
This end table is red oak with a Minwax water based stain and it's the first oak project I've done in years that doesn't have the grain screaming out from across the room. - lol
Dave,Pine and poplar are good suggestions. As for red oak, I guess I need to work on my finishing skills too. Otherwise, your furniture looks too mass-produced.Thanks.This is my personal signature.
Some deals can *sometimes* be had online.
Poplar, painted, can certainly be fine.
I wonder also, when you see a sideboard or end table from Crate And Barrel or something - do they just dark-stain poplar?
I can't imagine they'd be using mahogany if they didn't need to.
-Paul
Paul,Some of the Crate and Barrel, Pottery Barn, etc. furniture that I've seen is made from tropical hardwood. Nothing to get excited about, though. I would guess it's whatever was cheap at the time it was bought. I've seen some made from soft maple too. I've not seen any made from poplar, but that doesn't mean they don't use it. With a "good" spray finish the underlying wood almost disappears.MattThis is my personal signature.
I agree that sometimes good deals can be found online, but the drawback is shipping. I started selling figured hardwoods and the like online this past fall and even with decreased prices sales are still quite slow. Interestingly though if sales were consistent it would allow me to sell even lower and still make it a viable business. Ever considered Sassafras. Although one of the softer hardwoods, it has good natural luster, has a fine texture and ages to a mellow brown just shy of walnut. I can be found under Jason's Hardwoods at woodfiner. 2 cents.
One of my new "favorites" is Red Elm. Very interesting grain and mellow brown colour.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Bruce,Red elm was mentioned by one to me by one of our contributing editors. I don't think I've ever seen it, but I will soon. I'm a nut for wood (and the lumber yard), so you've piqued my interest.MattThis is my personal signature.
Red elm was used in the 20's as an oak substitute, but it has a more interesting grain pattern. It stains beautifully and works very well,but can move a little more then a most of woods. It's grain pattern is really interwoven and steam bends very well. It is not that readily available, but worth it if you can find a supplier. I think most of the supply comes out of Canada because of the dutch elm disease.
Matt,
I will second Dusty's recommendation of soft maple. Lots of integrity for $2.00 bf or so.
I will also recommend Hickory. Shop I work just for bought a bunch of kiln dried FAS for $1.37/bf. It does take a little more effort to work, but the results are worth it. Hickory has become quite poplar both in premium grades and rustic grades for kitchen cabinets and built in furniture.
Also a little known wood to most but readily available here is red gum. Very beautiful landscape type streaking coloration and nice tight grain. About the same hardness as poplar I believe. Also not very much $$$$
Good luck on the article,
Lee
I second the hickory vote -- lots around, and relatively inexpensive.
I've used soft maple quite a bit and like. I've also used red gum (black gum too). But hickory didn't come to mind. Thanks.This is my personal signature.
I like Ash, The Oak Family, and Pecan. Would like to do something with Walnut oneday, but not done so as of yet. Mesquite is another wood that looks great , but is alittle hard to find in good dimentions where I live.---------WW 57
Some good alternatives for Mahogany are Spanish Cedar (about 1/3 the cost) and Quaruba (about 1/8 the price) I do alot of Doors and Millwork and find folks are quite pleased with the look and feel of either. I dont like Afican mahogany or Indoneisian mahg, they are both very unstable and seen to get a lot of grain lift along edges
I with lostcreek on the choice of Alder. It's a bit soft, but it's easy to work and ccan be finished dark, light or inbetween (use anti-blotching techniques!).
but here in NH the prices of all lumber has dropped dramatically over the past year. Not sure if it's the same for plywood
Bob,
Not sure how it is all over the country, but here where I live the hardwood costs are going down also. The plywood, however, is going up since a great deal of it is made overseas. The higher costs are associated with the recent rising fuel costs according to our supplier. I do think that may change as the container loads of ply show up (they spend a few months out on the sea usually) and the market starts to get flooded.
Lee
Matt,
One way that I've reduced the cost of my lumber bill is to start branching out beyond my regular lumber retailer to the portable sawmill crowd. It's taken a bit of searching (I called some of the tree services in the area and found out to whom they sell trees), but the cost for comparable lumber is about 1/2 to 2/3. Many of these sawyers require a bit of a drive, but you can find much more interesting lumber than at the retail store. Also, they don't seem to mind if you dig through their stock to find the right thing.
Aaron
Aaron,Like you, I too eventually started searching out sawyers, wholesalers, and the like. This is a good tip.This is my personal signature.
Matt,
Volume also makes a difference on cost. If you can a group together to buy Bulk that helps. Our Woodworkers Source in Phx, will sell an entire bundle (1000 sq ft)at a huge savings. Only issue is there are some crappy boards.
AZMO
-----------_o
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
M,
So you want to use cheap wood for woodworking.
Personally I completely disagree with that approach.
If I am going to take three weeks to build a project, the cost of the wood is tiny compared to the "cost" of my labor. Why would I waste my time making a great piece of furniture out of cheap wood? I always recommend using the best wood you can find. I recommend using cheaper tools, but better wood. But no one pays attention to me, so you shouldn't either.
But you ask an interesting question. You received some predictable responses. I don't like predictable responses. So here are my thoughts.
Who makes more furniture than any other company in the world? IKEA.
What do they use? Yup, you guessed it. MDF. They put cheap veneer on it. So the most popular answer in the world to cheap wood is MDF.
The second answer lies in history.
Have you ever visited George and Martha's old place. I believe the name of it is "Mount Vernon". If you haven't, I would recommend it highly. The first few times I went there, i didn't realize that most of the woodwork was "fake grained". (faux finished). They used cheap wood but painted it to look like expensive wood. This is a time honored tradition. It takes great skill to do it well. Practice practice practice. But, using good fake graining techniques, you can just buy the cheapest wood you can find and make it look like crotch mahogany or crotch walnut, or anything your heart desires. I believe "fake graining" is one of the world's highest art forms.
Hope you got some ideas out of my message. I may joke a little, but only in a serious manner. :-)
Have fun.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,I have been to Mount Vernon, but not for some time. As for painting faux grain, the article really isn't heading in that direction.As for your suggestion that I'm looking for cheap wood to make furniture out of, I think you've misunderstood my question. What I am asking is which woods, other than the usual suspects (cherry, walnut, mahogany) can you make nice furniture out of and save a little money. I've seen some drop-dead-gorgeous furniture made from ash, vertical grain douglas fir, hickory, etc. I've seen some flat-out-make-a-clock-stop ugly furniture made from expensive wood. I'm all for buying nice wood, but nice wood doesn't have to be expensive. And not all expensive wood is nice.And I wouldn't turn my nose away from well done veneer work, even if were down over MDF. IKEA doesn't fit that description, but some great woodworkers out in wild do.This is my personal signature.
Edited 1/29/2009 9:28 am ET by MKenney
Mike (I think it's Mike apolgies if it's not) -
Here in NC, red oak is king for being dirt, dirt cheap and a fine cabinet wood. Generally, clear red oak can be had for about $3 b.f. in decent widths, though this if from a commercial lumber supplier. From the big box stores, it's frighteningly expensive.
For an unusual wood, Spanish Cedar seems to be quite reasonable, easy to work, and is a dead ringer for mahogany if it's correctly dyed in the finishing stage.
As for domestics, Hickory and Pecan are good choices if you're a power tool worker. I would not recommend them if you primarily work with hand tools. They're ridiculously hard when kiln-dried, and often have interlocked grain that means tearout when worked with anything other than very high-angle planes.
What I might suggest is focusing on the source of the lumber. Generally speaking, you can get an incredible deal on lumber that's cut from someone with a WoodMizer sawmill, though you will have to dry it. Kiln drying adds enormously to the cost - Walnut, in big sizes, is available in NC for about $3 a b.f. air-dried (and still a bit wet - you'll have to air-dry it the rest of the way). Kiln dried, the same quality is $7-$8 a b.f.
Finally, Beech makes quite nice furniture, but it's often cut as "utility wood" for making pallets and other things, so it can be difficult to find in the sizes and thicknesses that a lot of furniture makers would want. But it works extremely well.
M,
Many excellent woodworkers gave you the excellent answeres to the question asked. I merely provided some fun and extraneous thoughts. Sometimes such blue sky techniques result in creativity. Sometimes they merely result in dumb ideas. But the only way to achieve creativity is to let the mind wander. One doesn't hear much about the use of MDF and about fake graining here on Knots. Too bad. Both provide some interesting opportunities.Hope my strange ideas did not harm you permanently. :-)
Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,Don't worry, my skin is too thick to be harmed by the friendly denizens of Knots. I do appreciate you creative thinking, but I also wanted to clarify that I have no interest in "cheap" woods. We interested, as always, in making beautiful furniture. To do that you've got to have nice wood, but you don't have to spend big money to get it. That's all.Have a good day.MattThis is my personal signature.
Matt,
Thanks for the nice response. You know I was only trying to provide interesting answers because you had already gotten the more obvious answers. You are after very nice furniture. Me too. I am a big fan of faux finishes when done well. Mt. Vernon was a turning point for me. I don't think that FWW gives fake graining the respect it deserves. Veneering is also a time honored way of saving money on expensive wood. So maybe my response was not so far of line. Of course, coloring within the lines all the time is very very dull. I find in general the Knots denizens are a VERY conservative group. They don't stray far from the home. That is both a good thing and a bad thing. They stick with the tried and true, but you don't get a lot of venturesome projects, which entail a good deal more risk. Don't get me wrong. I love it here. Maybe I am a conservative at heart with a creative mind which causes internal conflict all the time :-)Enjoy,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Just a quick note on Spanish Cedar. Some have mentioned that it's a good substitute for Mahogany. Well, as it turns out, they're both in the same family, Meliaceae, so there's good reason that one can imitate the other well.MattThis is my personal signature.
Edited 1/29/2009 11:03 am ET by MKenney
Excuse me for calling you "Mike" previously, Matt. As a scientist with at least a decent knowledge of biology, I can tell you that being in the same family doesn't mean the properties that woodworkers care about will necessarily be a good match. Particularly in the botanical world, there are sometimes vast differences between different species in the same family.
An example is the North American persimmon - it's in the same family as African Ebony, and while I can assure you that it's dang hard and heavy, its appearance isn't a very close match for Gabon Ebony or Macassar Ebony.
Oh well, I'm at least surprised to find out that they're in the same family, which probably just reinforces your point.Don't worry about calling me Mike. I didn't think twice about it, and wasn't bothered.MattThis is my personal signature.
I have been to Mount Vernon and the furniture on display there IS NOT THE ORIGINAL, they use the cheap furniture look a likes because of all the traffic they get which needs replacing on a regular basis and the traffic would destroy the fine hand made pieces that were made often using fine grades of cherry, walnut etc. I am of the opposite school use high quality tools, they make my job a lot easier, and use good real wood because nothing looks as good as the real thing! As for inexpensive nice woods I personally like soft maple it looks nice finished and is easy to work with here in California. I also use Alder, poplar and if it is special job white oak, hard to work with but a beautiful species and I can get it a reasonable price for about $3-4/bf.
I like to use figured sycamore, looks like lace wood, at $3.50 a board foot for drawer fronts and sides of a chest of drawers. I use red alder at $3.00 a foot for the frame. Though red alder is soft, it acts as a good simulacrum of cherry at a fraction of the cost. These woods allow me to create and experiment in furniture design that I could not afford otherwise
I have had problems working with our local Sycamore do you find any problems like splitting chipping etc.?
I haven't had the problems you mention. As with all figured woods I lightly mist the surface of the wood with water several minutes before machining. Doing this softens the top 1mm of the wood preparing it for surface planing. I get far fewer chip-outs this way. It also helps if you use seriously sharp planer blades.
The cracking you mention occurs some time though it is usually associated with case hardened boards. Due to sycamore's low price/low profit margin I think that Kiln operators some time rush the process creating case hardened boards.
Maldy,
About Mt. Vernon. I meant that the woodwork in the house is "fake grained", not the furniture. I like good tools and good wood too. I don't know anyone who doesn't. But with skill, one can make masterpieces with adequate tools and cheap wood. I would rather use the good stuff.
Have fun.Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Living in the midwest oak and walnut are relatively cheap. I have found an amazing amount of good but cheap wood from the local classifieds, craigslist, and estate sales. This link, http://www.woodfinder.com/ helped me find a local lumber recycler in my area. His main business is pallets and he has contracts with local municipalities and tree services. He also cuts and kiln or air dries local hardwoods and sells them "retail" two Saturday's a month. Rough sawn A+ QSWO goes for 4.25, rift sawn is 2.75 (my favorite), A+ walnut is 5.00.
Hope this helps.
Greg
If you have the capacity and patience for resawing reclaimed lumber, there is much to be had. Always check (as best you can) for metal hiding somewhere in those old beams or what have you, but some great wood is available. The more you are willing and able to truck home and resaw yourself, the better the initial price. Of course, depending upon how you value your time, this method may become pricey as well.
Matt,
I did not read the entire thread so I don't know if anyone has mentioned sassafras.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b202/bacsibob/BlanketChest-1-Jan07-1.jpg
A bit softer than cherry or walnut, nicely different color and a wonderful fragrance when cut (think root beer).
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Semper Fi!
Bob Ross
WalnutAcreWoodworking.com
When saying cheap woods or woods for little money all is relative. I have not seen anyone mention ebay specifically. Here is an example I was interested in, but decided not to purchase:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200296898195
I priced the freight from Tennessee to Houston through the seller just for this bundle and it worked out to be about 4 dollars a BF for padauk with me picking the wood up at the terminal.
I bought 12/4 sapele from the same guy with some other items and it worked out to be less than 3 dollars a board foot for his less than perfect materials. Below is a baby gate I made from that material:
http://finewoodworking.taunton.com/item/1230/baby-gate
I don't consider these cheap woods, but given steamed walnut and cherry are almost $6/BF here in Houston and minus poplar the next cheapest is 4/4 brown maple at $2/BF it is is a nice upgrade for not much more money.
You have to have a different mindset and efficient storage ideas to make this philosophy work or have friends willing to blindly split the load with you.
Also having a resaw capability when buying big is a plus as you can size the lumber to specific needs and do better matching when buying a thicker lumber stash.
Buying off eBay is an interesting idea. Personally, I don't think I've got that much adventure left in me. When I'm making a piece of furniture, I like to look through the stack and pick boards for color, figure, quartersawn, plainsawn, etc. There's also the small issue that lumber yards are perhaps my favorite place to go. I could spend all day looking through lumber stacks. But I do admire your ingenuity.MattThis is my personal signature.
I certainly like to pick through the lumberyard as well and it becomes a different mindset to "bring the lumberyard to you" as when purchasing in bulk you may have one project in mind for the wood with alot leftover.
I end up looking through my sizable stash and thinking of "what project would this wood look good in?" I sat on this curly cherry with alot of sap and fairly thin cocobolo (both bought on ebay for a good deal) for a long time before it called to me for this project:
http://finewoodworking.taunton.com/item/1092/sock-stool
I don't think this idea is uncommon as you see Krenov poking through his stash in his books as well as many others.
I do the same thing with hardware on ebay and do searches for brass hinge for deals and sometimes end up finding something sweet for 25% of the cost....I am young enough to know I will need that butt hinge sometime. I guess I like to troll ebay as much as the lumberyards :-)
Poplar is my pick for a cheap date in the workshop. It is easy to work, planes beautifully, and can be fine sanded, oiled and waxed to a marble-smooth finish (albeit with lots of elbow grease). It also works pretty well for incise carving.
But be careful where you buy. Some of the major home lumber chain stores in my location charge nearly $4.00 per BF, but I get it from a nearby hardwood supplier for $2.40 per BF.
Pick your boards, from greenish to nearly white with interesting grain pattern combinations. Sometimes a cheap date can be a real winner!
and the money you have to spend on wood have taken a downturn?
I found that to be true even when I HAD MONEY!
I have my favorite woods to work but I will purchase ANY wood I think would work for a project I have in mind that I see at a reasonable price.
Important comment from me follows:
I do not run a business where the species of wood is mandated by the client. I have much more freedom and options. As in do nothing until I see some wood at a reasonable price.
... I like ash. It's widely available on the east coast (where I live), can be had for just a few dollars a board foot, isn't too hard to work. And, to top it off, it has a lovely color...
Ash is endangered.. I think.. It is going the way of the long lost American Elm. Elm, now that was a wonderful wood of many uses!
Ash is one of the woods I love to work but expensive in my area (Chicago). Nice selection of sticks but a bit expensive. So is Hickory that I like to use but not as much as Ash. (Never worked a 'true' Pecan).. Maybe someday?
I like Santos Mahogany and Sapele but the dust is terrible! Clogs up my shop vacuum filter in seconds!
And I just love using Purpleheart with other woods..
I gave up on using Maple after a few issues with those trees on my property. As in when my house lifted up on one side. I love trees so that little teeny tiny little tree that was to close to the house .. I left it alone and let it grow. BIG mistake.
Two Maples cost this home owner much grief and money to fix.. Yes, I still love trees but not sure why?
I may get four Lee Valley Rooter Pots and grow some Poplar roots.. One pot each for.. Black, brown. yellow and white trees. The black will will be like Ebony and cuts like the mother plant. The brown will be like mahogany. The white like Birch. The Yellow like Orange Osage.
No Maples in my genetic selections!
Hi Matt
My preference is to use local hardwoods, such as Jarrah, Tasmanian Blackwood and She-oak. However, there are times when I want to build something cheaply, quickly, or just have fun and not worry about mistakes. Then I tend to work with cheap pine. This can be stained, or you can dress it up by adding a piece of hardwood.
Here is an example of stained Pine, with a little Jarrah trim, in a Shaker chest of drawers I made for my son several years ago. This was one of the first pieces I make with handtools alone.
View Image
Last week I made this little bookcase for my office waiting room. Again pine and dressed up with a little Jarrah.
View Image
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek,That's a lovely dresser. I especially like the feet. But I have this odd feeling that Jarrah and Tasmanian Blackwood may not be local species where I live! Pine, however, is a great wood for building furniture. Some early American furniture was done in pine, and a lot of furniture in the South Eastern US was done in pine.Thanks. MattThis is my personal signature.
Derek, jumping in on your post, but we have a lot of Aussie trees here in Phoenix and I was wondering if you could offer an opinion on some species.
I have found some small logs of Acacia stenopylla, or Shoe String Acacia around. Seems to be an exceptional material, with a great red/brown color. Have you ever used it? Mine is drying until next fall, so I have not worked with it. Any other Acacias you use?
We also get a bunch of Eucs here, are any of those worth using? Most don't seem to be that special, but they do burn forever in my outdoor fireplace.
AZMO <!----><!----><!---->
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Hi Azmo
I have absolutely no experience of Shoe String Acacia. From what I know, it grows on the Eastern (other) side of Oz. I Googled for it and could not find any references to it being used for furniture. Sorry.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek,
Austrialia is much like Texas, seems to go on forever.....
This link was posted earlier, so I was poking around looking at some of the acacias that are used, and found the Shoe String. River Coolibah area? Anyway, a nice photo of the wood.
http://www.rarewoodsandveneers.com/pages/specimens/rarewoods/rarewood03.htm
Thanks Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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I can't believe no on has mentioned veneer! If the project makes it possible, veneer is a great way to add highly figured and high grade wood at affordable prices. I realize not all projects and designs make using veneer possible, but I've found it's a great way to inexpensively kick up your design possibilities. For example, I bought the curly cherry veneer for my secretary for $50, and used less than half of it! Wood goes a LOT further when it's less than 1/16" thick.
ND Matt ,
Stunning work ! Thank you for sharing that I'm in awe .
Which parts were veneered and which were solid ?
regards dusty
Geez,
Put that thing in the knots readers gallery! Beautiful work.
Lee
Thanks, actually I finished it a couple of years ago and posted about it then. All the drawer fronts are veneered, with cock beading. Both sides of the drawer fronts are veneered to keep the wood stable (the inside with less figured wood). The slant front is solid curly cherry. That one piece cost as much as the veneer on all the drawers.
My point with the original post was that most people would be surprised how far your money goes when buying veneer. It's a very economical way to add expensive and highly figured wood to your projects.
ND,
I agree with Lee about putting it in the Readers Gallery.
Where'd ye git the veneer?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I bought it from Tom Volpe, who I found via the OldTools message board. I don't know if he's still selling wood. Ebay can also have some nice pieces.
I like Beech and Hard Maple for furniture and have also used hickory and elm - available in the Niagara Peninsula.
I’m just starting out in furniture building and I am a bit concerned about the cost of making mistakes using QS white oak or mahogany. Being from Canada, Doug Fir can be found at most lumber yards and is considerably less expensive than oak or mahogany. If I can find it, the tighter the grain the better but I have made bed rails from dried and sealed sapwood. It's easy to work with and not too hard on my jointer, planer, and mortiser. I'm wondering, why is it that I don't see many projects made with Doug Fir?
One reason is that it's considered "construction lumber" and not durable enough for furniture because of its softness. I say that's bunk - I make many 18th century cabinets and 6-board chests out of Eastern White pine, which is really soft, but I think (and those that have the furniture think) it's a beautiful wood, and the marks it shows after years of use simply add an antique feel to the furniture.
And I've seen some really stunning wooden interiors in homes that were entirely of douglas fir - joists, paneling, and built-in cupboards all of fir. The effect had to be seen to be believed.
John,I would think that Douglas Fir isn't widely viewed as a furniture, at least in part, because of where it grows: out west. Furniture making in the US got its start on the east coast. So east coast woods, like walnut, cherry, and eastern white pine, have been used for a long time and seem to have a bit of momentum behind them. (I should note that this is just a quick, off-the-top of my head explanation.) But Douglas Fir, especially when quarter-sawn, is a striking wood and you can make beautiful furniture from it. I have seen a fair amount of furniture made from it, but as I recall, it was all made in the last few decades, and mostly on the west coast.But you should never let what other people choose for furniture wood prevent you from using Douglas Fir.One word of caution: if you buy construction grade lumber, just make sure its good and dry before you build with it. Construction grade lumber is usually around 15-20 % moisture content. Furniture grade lumber should be around 10% (preferably lower).This is my personal signature.
John , It's like the others said , more availability in the Western states , it was plentiful and cheap and local . The homes built in the PNW used DF and other local species some Victorian and most all local Craftsman style homes from 1905 - 1920 maybe before featured CVG DF .
DF has been a primary wood used in doors and windows as well as structural grades . The trim and moldings and built in furniture is the same style as other same era works but done in local woods .
I was in a home that had birdseye Pine , Redwood , and Black Walnut as well as CVG DF in a stunning array of grains , all local species .
The picture shows the intricate work they did with Fir for a stairwell banister in an earlier house . Many turnings and porch columns were Fir also .A few of our woods are treasured in the Orient cVG DF and Port Orford Cedar are several .
regards dusty
In the Phoenix area, soft maple and knotty alder are good choices. The alder is great if you are going for a more rustic look. I've bought it for as little as $1.25 bf.
To save money, I try to stay away from the big box stores for purchasing my project material. They may sell it cheaper, but the way they store the wood upright makes it hard to get straight boards, meaning more work at the jointer and planer, and less material to work with. That nullifies any advantage to the slightly discounted price. Also, the rotation of employees means I might get someone who knows plumbing inside and out, but nothing about wood, trying to recommend project wood to me. Stick to the local specialty shops.
The warehouse guy at my local hardwoods dealer knows every piece of wood in the place, and if I dont know what I want specifically, he can suggest some great choices and rattle off all the prices in his head. He just turned me on to a large supply of soft maple with just the character I was asking for, cheaper than some other wood I had considered using.
I like to use local hardwoods, instead of going for the "tropical" or "exotics". They are a cheaper and easier to use, plus the environmental benefits of using local timbers. Two of my favorite domestic hardwoods are Poplar and Ash. Polar is great to work with. If you can find the white boards, they are even better. I don't understand the negative stigma attached to it.Ash is great. On one project I was making for a family member, I was going to use Ash, but I couldn't find it in the short time-frame that I had. The lumber dealer suggested Hackberry. It was great! It had wonderful grain and was easier on my tools then Ash.
I've never seen hackberry at a lumber yard, but I'll keep my eyes out and give it a try.MattThis is my personal signature.
Hey JP -
Those "South American hardwoods" are generally rain forest lumber. They can be brittle when made into cheap "Pier 1" furniture. I won't buy either.
crashj,It's definitely a good idea to stay away from home centers when buying furniture grade woods. In my experience, they're far more pricey and the wood is already surfaced. Thanks.MattThis is my personal signature.
Habitat for Humanity and dumpsters are my friends. When I need some good flat ply with a thick face & no voids, I head for my cabinet door collection. When I need some nice tight-grained fir, I head for my stud collection. Last week, I found a stile from an exterior door--absolutely clear 8/4 something that looks good. My best find was in the discard bin at Habitat. I paid 71 cents for a 6ft, 10" wide perfectly flat board. Didn't know it was Honduran mahogany until I started working it. Habitat finds can also save me time. Contractors often donate left-over glued panels and moulding, etc., that I might not even be able to shape with my tools.
I know what you mean about the economy wrecking havoc on wood prices and I definately agree about searching out salvage yards and demolition sites. I have been stashing and hording wood for 25 years. Even through all the complaints from everyone that Ill never use it or its just too old or where am i going to store it? I have saved walnut from the trim work in my first house and have accumulated all sorts of species from the cabinet shops I have worked at knowing someday it would all be worth the effort. Well I have finally found some extra time and have just completed setting up a modest workshop that I can finally make all my efforts of saving wood pay off. Moral of story----save any decent lumber that you might come across in your life and always think towards the future. Charly-Killingworth,Ct.
One way that I have saved money on some "nice" wood without breaking the bank is to go to some of the small sawmills in my area and get some of their cut offs. This has provided me some great oak/cypress/pine/greenheart. If I am using some pine or oak and would like to dress it up I will collect some pallets from the auto supply stores. I noticed that many of the rebuilt auto parts are rebuilt in South America and the pallets that are provided for there transport are made from the local wood in the country of orgin. I have gotten every kind of S. American hadwood there is from these pallets. The trick is to know how to disassemble the pallets so as to have some usable wood. Also look for plumbing fixtures pallets (almost all toilets are made in S. America).
I was given a large amount of old growth redwood that came from vats. Whats your guys opinon on using this for a set of dining room chairs. This stuff is harder than the stuff they sell today so thats what got me thinkin Greene and Greene. All real close crain and some of it is QS. Planed to 1 3/8 thick and 6 to 8 in. wide.
Wayne
Edited 2/3/2009 8:27 pm ET by hammerelbow1
This is an interesting question. What do the boards smell like? In other words, what was held in the vats?As for their suitability for building furnture, I would think that as long as they are dry (around 6-8% moisture content), they should be fine. But if I were you, I'd start a new thread with this question. That way, you might get responses from people who might not read this thread.MattThis is my personal signature.
I was told they held beer. But I've never heard of redwood beer vats. And they smell like redwood. I was thinking that the wood would be too soft and after some use the joints would loosen up.
Wayne
Edited 2/4/2009 8:36 am ET by hammerelbow1
Find a local sawyer - maybe someone with a portable mill. If you don't need a lot, I find there is a great deal of good wood left in the sawmill "slabs" - the first cuts from a log to square it into a cant.
I've got a lot of red oak slabs that have beautiful wood in them. I also have a lot of "Virginia poplar". Here in Virginia the tulip tree is also called poplar although I don't think the two are related. The wood does turn green in places when milled, but I haven't used it in a project yet. Still waiting for it to dry. One more year (at least).
I've also got some ash cants. Ash tends to move (stretch & warp) when it's milled so it's hard to get a good piece. I'm letting the cants dry and then I'll try to get some boards.Bottom line - working with a local sawyer you can get nice wood at very reasonable prices. They typically charge about .50/bf for milling. Then you just have to wait a few years while it dries!
"What do you do when the prices of your favorite furniture woods, like cherry and walnut, keep going up but the economy and the money you have to spend on wood have taken a downturn?"
One thing is not to give up as well. Local sawyers are usually much cheaper then retail yards and they can cut to your spec.
Another option is a group buy. Find some people in your area and order a 500-1000Bf order and spilt it up along with the discount.
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/ Is a site where I meet many local people and bought local cut wood at a great price. It can be had air and Kiln dried.
There is more then one place that sells wood. That and price does not equal quality.
OK like many others I use wood from the sawmill, a tiny fraction of the cost of wood at retail..
what I love is Tamarack..
IT's vibrant color contrast is spectacular and I only pay 20 cents a bd.ft. for it.. As for hackberry, ahhh it's boring.. a bit greenish and not an exciting wood in my humble opinion.. Sort of like working with elm without the nasty problems that elm has..
I use it for subflooring and joists in my house but not where it's heavily loaded because it isn't all that strong..
One wood that doesn't get much interest lately is basswood.
It's light and carves easy plus much of it is completely knot free. In addition it can come in widths over 24 inches if your sawmill has the capability..
Finally Boxelder!
Now that is a wood that can be wickedly beautiful.. I've seen red streaks that look like lightening bolts or brillant yellow streaks. Evan sometimes green or brown.. They contrast beautifully with the white of the soft maple which boxelder is part of the same family.. Since there is little developed market for boxelder it's often sold to the pallet mills for 17 cents a bd.ft. Rare to have really big planks of it. but if you do it should be placed somewheres where the color contrast is sharply defined..
Milling and drying your own wood is a great way to save money. Everything I make comes from reclaimed timber. These are mostly either yard trees or trees cleared by a developer. Here in Ohio I get oak, walnut, beech, ash, cherry, sycamore, osage, maple, elm and hickory. Sawyers typically charge about 40¢ a board foot for flat cut and about $1 a board ft for quarter sawn. You can sticker it and let it air dry or take in to a kiln. It's a great way to get furniture commissions too. People like to have things made from their tree and their cost is relatively low because the wood is almost free.
Sycamore is cheap. According to
my instructor Master Cabinetmaker
in Selmer TN, Mike Gray (Old English Fine Furniture),
sycamore he's worked with is some of
the most beautifully figured wood
he's seen.
I acquired some sycamore 100+ year old
barn beams and he's right. It is
beautiful wood with nice coloring,
gold & pink.
Ed Newton
Fayette County TN
Fine lumber for a project is still the best route to go IMO. Instead of substituting cheaper lumber, I try to be more selective in the projects I accept.
But, again, there is plenty of fine lumber available for less than $5 a board foot. Saving up and using cherry, walnut, or mahogany (or some other pricey wood) is fine, but we shouldn't think that those are the only woods that fine furniture can be made from. They're not.MattThis is my personal signature.
I am in Michigan and around here Cherry is not that bad, at least compared to pretty much any other "good" wood.
As for the point of the OP, maybe we should just list woods that we think are fairly cheep. Personally I do not have any idea for a wood cheeper then Cherry/Oak and it's like, that would be a good wood for furniture. So a list of suggestions seems a good idea, but I am afraid it would be very local.
Doug M
I like working with Oak! Red Oak & White Oak are the 2 types I can get hold of at a fair price. BUT!!! I'm buying my lumber from the Amish sawmill and it is all rough cut. I stack it, (taking up a good portion of shop area) but at 80 cents a board foot? I can wait the six months or so for drying enough to work with. I don't have a way to keep the humidity at a certain % but I keep the temp at about 62 degrees F, So far I haven't had much problem with the lumber splitting or warping. I do have to plane everything which in the end I have created something from the rough cut lumber. It is a lot more work but the savings is well worth it.
Man where are you at that the Amish are that cheep?
Doug M
Central Michigan! and that 80 cents BF is there #1 oak, very few knots!
I get lots of mahogany from foreign motorcycle dealers skid crates.The Japanese sell us lots of cycles but japan does not have it's own packing crate wood--so they import Phillipine mahogany for crates.motorcycles are shipped two at a time, bolted to skid crates.The dealers throw out the crates.some of the mahogany is yellow and lightweight and useless.The better stuff is reddish and heavy like oak. taking apart a typical crate yields 2X2, 3X3" and "1/2"X5 in." Because the crates are built with screw nails it is best to take apart with a sabre saw and lose a few inches on each end. Trying to pry apart screw nailed boards just splits the board you are trying to save.A typical crate will be 65% keepers and 35% throw away--but you got it for free anyway from the dealers trash.It saves your back when you disassemble the crates on sawhorses (working at waist height).The mahogany is rough sawn and sometimes out of square--time must be invested to dress up your free wood.The crate dimensional lumber is suited to home made molding and the 2X2 and 3X3 usually end up on a router table for profile cutting.The lumber seems to be the same on all Japanese motorcycle skid crates--Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, etc. Phillipine mahogany is softer than other varities and has open pores like oak. some projects will need a paste wood filler or at basic minimum at least a sanding sealer to fill those pores prior to the application of final finishes.This idea does NOT work on all skid crates.for example most lawn tractors are domestic U>S> production so those skid crates are poplar or southern soft pine and not worth the labor of taking apart.The above takes work--but the price is right
I am always looking for cheap wood but there are consequences:
Ebay:
Is good for specialty wood. I have been buying Spalted Maple lately. Depends on other bidders though- some I got for the minimum bid, for others I had to sneak in a last price at the last minute. So far, quality and service has been good. All in all, I think I have done better that buying from a dealer. No board has been greater than 60" Most shorter.
Adds on Woodworking forums:
I got some beautiful Walnut, Oak and Maple from a guy who did cabinetmaking in the 80's and got tired of storing the wood. Great price.
I kinda got stung on another from someone who had some trees cut and stored the wood for several years. Insisted on selling all 700 BF of red oak and Walnut. A lot of red oak is #2 at best the Walnut is ok. I drove about 150 miles sight unseen and decided to take it. Not again.
Local Sawmill Guys:
I've obtained some good wood at low prices from several but you have to be there at the right time and keep in touch. They may not have much to select from either. They kiln dried it and the moisture content was OK.
The consequences:
Be prepared to work at making the wood usable. You have to deal with cups, bows, etc that you would pick over at a lumber mill. My local mill has a 20" jointer and will at least flatten one face for me. I have a 16/32 sander I use with 36 grit paper to flatten wide boards-- good exercise! I have to cut out bad areas and generally there is not as much usable wood as you wood get from a professional mill. So, it can be cheaper but you have to work more to get the wood usable. How valuable is your time?
Hope this helps.
JC
I have my own chainsaw mill, so I will work with whatever I can cut locally. Siberian elm if very plentiful where I live, is of medium hardness and if beautiful with a clear finish. Ash is becoming more plentiful and I can find hard and soft maple trees to cut as well.
Lee Reiners
I also, love wood that is a little different. I always haunt auctions for the odd lengths of wood stored in the tops of barns and shops. This is often overlooked by the auction people and I point it out at the end of the auction. I usually get any of it for $1-2 a pile.
I was given a pickup (overflowing) load of Hickory that had been mill
ed 20 years before and stored. Ricked and dry. From 6/4 to 1/2" and 6" to 14" wide. A lifetime supply!
I bought a load of black walnut for $15. at another auction. I've found cherry and others this way. Some of these people have stored this wood for 20+ years, and now the estate is getting rid of all the junk. Look in those old falling down sheds in the back.
Check out any pallet plants near-by. I get all the oak I want usually 4-6" wide up to 43" long. these are cut offs, what's left after they cut as many 48" pieces from the log that they can. They'll give them away as they can't be used by the plant.
I hunt highly figured pine for trim and simple cabinets with knots and/or sapwood. The average homeowner leaves this set aside at the lumber yards, they want plain wood. I like it with interesting figuring.
I have a chance to get some Old growth douglas fir Kiln dryed and a lot of it is quarter sawn. anyone ever worked with it? 8/4 and 8-10" wide.
Here in North Florida it is often possible to obtain Chinaberry which machines well, and will take most any stain. It will make beautifl furniture. With the proper stain, it can be mistaken for Mahogany. In fact, it is it the same species as Mahogany.
tache
North Florida? I was born and raised in Jacksonville.This is my personal signature.
Ya, I am actually in central FL. , Just south of Ocala.
Harry
One of my favorite places in Fla. is Salt Springs, which is just north of Ocala, I think. I went fishing there as a kid. Astonishingly clear water.This is my personal signature.
One source of resonably priced woods is to find someone with a portable sawmill in your area. I am in Georgia, and I saw hardwood. I have pecan ($1.50/Bd-Ft), red oak, white oak, poplar, red cedar, hackberry, native persimmon, walnut, sycamore etc. It is all rough sawn and air dried, but there are some beautiful boards that the commercial guys charge an arm and a leg for that can be bought for a very reasonable price if you are willing to dry it from 12 - 15% air-dried moisture to a M% suitable for furniture in a few weeks if you sticker it inside.
My collection now totals more than 15k ft of everything from Cherry to BW simply by stopping every time I pass a band saw mill and getting to know the sawyers and letting them know what I'm looking for. I have a couple of gentlemen who really look out for me and at prices that are completely unrealistic. Sometimes they burn or bury the pieces that I enjoy the most. I have all the equipment for surfacing, so there's no need to buy top grade. an occasional finished piece for them &/or their wife does wonders and really encourges them to keep looking out for me . Whenever they get top grade stuff that I need I buy all they have, so they're happy money-wise too.
I see a good supply of decent wood as a better investment than that amount of $ in the bank!
Of course it also helps that I travel a 150 mile radius in my business, so I'm probably exposed to more mills than a big-city boy...
Good luck on your "findings"
kemo
My wood currently comes from a used woodmizer sawmill I bought last summer. Before I bought this mill I located a local mill owner and had him mill my wood for for me. He charged $250 a thousand. Most of the logs where free and the land owners were very happy to have some one else do the work of there removal . My "wood stash" is quite extensive. I have red oak, apple, cherry, red fur, white fir, blued pine, russian olive, maple, and elm. I have a White pine stationed at the mill ready to mill when I have the time to mill them. Most for under 30 cents a board foot. You need to be pro-active and keep looking for the logs . Some mill owners will go to the wood and mill the logs on sight for a small additional fee. Good option if you don't have the ability to haul logs to a mill.
Hello:
What I did to access cheap wood was buy a 21" band saw and then cut several birch trees down in my back yard and slice them into 1" thick boards on the band saw and dry them in the basement for a year. This yeilded several hundred board feet of good solid birch for my projects
Here in New Zealand, I find one of the best sources of good quality timber, such as English and American oak, Sycamore, some Mahogany and Rimu (NZ Red Pine), is charity shops. They will often have old head and foot boards from old fashioned beds. I picked up nearly 15 such pieces of double bed head and foot boards for about NZ$50. The wood is really dry and straight and because they are old (but not antique)the wood in old imperial thicknesses which is thicker than modern metric thickness. All in all some really nice timber that would cost a bomb, if you can get it locally.
Cheers
KiwiKeith
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