Hi all,
I’m about to inherit all of my fathers WW equipment. For the most part it’s really nice
stuff, vintage Rockwell-Delta planer, lathe, joiner,drill press, bandsaw. The only thing
I don’t like and griped to my pops for years is the early 80’s Sears tablesaw. The
fence has never been all that great, and the carriage supporting the blade always
seems to move realtive to the fence. Long story short, I’m in northern CT. Where do I
start obtaining skills to use all this stuff, and what’s a good saw? My pops
always wanted a Delta Uni-saw so I’m pretty partial. Any thoughts would
be welcomed and appreciated.
Replies
IMHO, you start learning by getting a whole bunch of cheap wood and building birdhouses, boxes, you-name-it, as nice as you can, without plugging in. I.E., learn about wood and joinery first.
Once you start to get the hang of things, add in power tools one at a time as you find operations that would be more efficient for you with them.
I sit on the fence in the hand tool/power tool debate -- guess you could tell. I think it's VERY useful to develop skills on both sides of that fence. My experience is that, if somebody gets on the power tool bandwagon too soon, they never really develop the hand skills -- instead, they become good machinists.
As for a saw, I'd say SawStop, especially for a beginner. (They didn't have SawStops until recently, so you can't rule them out just 'cause Pops didn't lust after one years ago.)
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
(They didn't have SawStops until recently, so you can't rule them out just 'cause Pops didn't lust after one years ago.) LOL. Yeah..... pops was always preaching safety, so you're most likely right. In the little bit I've done so far, I'm realizing the more I know... the more I really don't. I appreciate the advice to focus on the fundamentals and keep it simple.
-D
Local high schools/colleges often have introductory woodworking programs during the evenings. If that fails you could try to find some local woodworking clubs or even another garage guy. Most are willing to share.
I think hand tool skills and machine skills go hand in hand. The best woodworkers don't seem to differentiate, prefering to do things in the most efficient way, and yes hand tools are often the most efficient way for certain tasks...
Scroll down to the bottom of the front page of Knotts. There is a place to click for Woodworking Clubs. check CT and Mass, since you're in northern CT. Try the Woodcraft store in the Norwalk area. I know they offer classes. Also try the Adult Ed. program in your school district. Get a couple of Introduction to woodworking books from the library and start reading. You may even want to try the local High Schools woodworking teacher for a 'loaner' book. There are a couple of good books written by Feirer. He writes books for High School shop courses. They are always a good place to start. Take your time when working with ANY machine. The first aim is to have the same number of fingers attached to you at the end of the work session as you had at the beginning! And, as important, ask questions here on Knotts. We may not all agree with each other, but we are always willing to help.
I won't even touch on the topic of table saws. Everyone seems to have their own favorite brand, although many of us are now seriously looking at the SawStop units.
SawdustSteve
I would strongly advise getting a video on safety such as the one Marc Adams has on DVD..in fact, I have an extra if you're interested. Would second the recommendation for a SawStop if you've got the funds..it's a great saw...there are also some videos out there on basics of the various machines,TS, router bandsaw etc. Check around to see if there are any woodworker clubs...it's fun to learn on your own but the process gets sped up quite abit from learning from your elders ie more experienced...also if you have the time, taking a week long course in fundamentals at a recognized WW school is well worth the investment. Good luck, I'm sure you will love the journey.
Neil
D,
An alternative mode for deciding what to make is to consider what furniture you or a relative would actually like to have. Why build a birdhouse or other simple thing if no one really wants one? Also, if you aim (relatively) high to start with, you may come on with your woodworking skills much faster than going the safe route of building only simple things.
If you do make a fairly complex thing first go then it may have a glitch or bodge here and there. But you will learn more from this than making a simple thing that you get completely right first time. Learning anything is usually accelerated under adverse conditions and with high demands of your concentration and other inate abilities. If the potential recipient of your first piece has a high expectation, you will try hard to meet it. If you are building a practice birdhouse for no one, you will be far less motivated.
There is also the danger that if you start with simple things and find you can make near-perfect ones, you will be seduced by that pleasure and "stay simple" forever, never risking potential disappointment from less-than-perfect and more difficult-to-build pieces.
Lataxe
Edit: Have a look at this fellah's first piece here. http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=42237.1 Not bad, eh? You could do that maybe?
Edited 6/19/2008 5:13 pm ET by Lataxe
While I disagree about starting simple, I think you make a very good
point concerning making what interests you.
The question of how to get started seams to be a reoccurring one. It
strikes me as an odd question. After all you have an interest in
working with wood, surely you must have some direction that is
intriguing you.
Start there of course. Whatever it may be, move forward and experiment
and explore! I'd say keep it simple at first ( but we can agree to dis agree about that). Then let it develop from there.
Then you will be asking all sorts of questions that the people
here can answer with an amazing collection of experience and knowledge.
there are some good books on woodworking projects for beginners that start with developing basic skills, lots of pictures, and detailed explanations. taunton press likely has a few. or "ask the experts (link above)" to recommend such a book.
H,
I wouldn't dismis starting simple, if this is what a newbie feels more comfortable doing. But the "start complicated" route is also viable albeit a different journey perhaps.
The first two things I made were a bookcase and a coffee table.
The bookcase was a straightforward thing and I copied it from an existing one. It had housing joints for the shelves, a shiplap back in a rabbet, a few simpe curves on the top and a plain foot mitred at the corners. It was neatly done and still looks like a classic small bookcase today. I learnt a bit from making it.
The coffee table had inlaid banding, profiled legs, mitred M&Ts, an undershelf and any number of fancy mouldings on the edges, around the legs and so forth. I made up the "design" myself. This object, when I look at it now, makes me cringe. Yet I learnt 10X from making it as I did from making the bookcase. These days it's used as a "treat it anyway you like" table in the grandchildrens' playden. It doesn't lack strength and the grandchildren are as yet ignorant of the finer aesthetics. (Phew).
It was this early experience that prompted my suggestion to the OP.
Lataxe
I'm glad you replied, I've been thinking on this today.
Perhaps I'm not so sure of the start simple philosophy.
My life started and continues to be centered in crafts of one type or another. So maybe I don't have much perspective, for someone just
embarking on this sort of thing.
But when I've tried to teach someone it's just seamed more comfortable
to deal with just basics at first.
Yet, even the most intricate construction is just fundamentals at
heart isn't it?
Perhaps, taking your time and pursuing a loftier goal is more
rewarding. While it certainly is more educational.
So in short- I have know opinion anymore :) Chuck
Chuck,
Too funny! Now would ye be havin an opinion on a middle of the road piece? Somewhat challenging and yet not overwhelmin.
:-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Any fule kno that making furniture in the middle of the road is bound to lead to disaster. Mo and we other cyclists of Knots might swerve round it, to preserve the Campagnolo from unsightly scratches and spelks. Even Ray might think twice about trying to jump his Injun over it, that machine being somewhat elderly and rare (like Ray).
But the first trucker to come along will surely delight in reducing your hours of loving labour to matchwood in 0.4 of a second. I can see his evil leer now, as he makes them pipes roar behind his ear.
Perhaps we all ought to have a collection to buy you a shed?
You're not from Yorkshire are you? ("When Ah were a lad, we had to eat dead rats from t'gutter whilst Dad med wooden legs from broken palletes int' middle of road usin' a catseye as 'is bench and a flattened old sardine tin to shape 'em....").
Lataxe
Mr. Jester,
If I didn't know better I'd have to say you be The Angler of Galgate. If yur fishin for Pine I must say you present irresistable bait!
From your post it would seem you have much familiarity with lorry operators. Perhaps a long ago fencing session or three whilst astride your two wheeled steed.
It seems here in the States them commanders of multi-wheeled beasts enjoy flattening anythang anywhere near the road objects, both living and not so living........
Would that be a custome we Yanks inherited from you blokes?
Not from Yorkshire but do like the puddin,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 6/21/2008 9:09 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob,
When I were a lad, several centuries ago, I spent many a summer holiday going out with Uncle Cornelius in one or other of the vans or lorries he drove for various food-manufacturing firms. There was the Prudho Bakery, St Ivel Cheese and latterly Wrights biscuits.
As well as enjoying the many squashed and broken bits of grub, left after the deliveries all over the north east of England, I would get lessons in traffic, driving and all the rules of the road. These included many arcane rules known only to commercial drivers of circa 1955 - 60.
Any road up, these holiday sojourns within the cab of crash-gearbox vehicles of dodgy handbrakes and 28 HP (0 - 60 in 87 minutes) gave me invaluable lessons about driver behaviour, not to mention an extensive mental map of the district, which both served me well in later years as a cyclist.
Sometimes I drag the protesting ladywife to a tram museum or even one with trolley buses. Those early experiences left me with a fondness for old vehicles and their primitive technology. Is there anything more romantic than a Commer two-stroke diesel lorry, all shiny red, yellow and green, prrrraping up a country road in high summer, with a load on?
Lataxe, nostalgic for lost & gone aspects of his youth.
Lataxe, old top,
Old and rare are we? Aye, but not frail. Injuns are like tractors, they are:
"You can't wear out an Indian Scout,
Not its brother, the Indian Chief.
They're built like rocks, to take hard knocks;
It's Broughs and Vincents that cause the grief."
Yer Pappy had pallets, and sardine tins? Go ahead and rub our noses in your pampered childhood. Rats too, eh? Only time we had meat, was when my brother found an animal cracker once.
Ray, saving for a down payment on a penny box of matches
I came here looking for the same information about five years ago. I also inherited my father's entire woodworking work shop. Fortunately, it included a Delta Unisaw, but I would get a Sawstop if I were buying today!
I took a couple of classes at Woodcraft which helped me get over my fear of some of my tools. My number one goal was to learn how to use all of these tools safely, which should be anyone's focus starting out.
The best advice I got, and it proved invaluable, was to find an experienced woodworker and ask to apprentice under them. I was fortunate that an excellent craftsman worked from his house near me. I started off offering to sweep floors and sand. I worked for him 10-15 hours a week for about a year. It was the best experience I could have received.
I also agree that building something you have interest in, whether simple or complex will be your best motivation. Good luck!
You are all quite the friendly bunch. I appreciate all the advice, and I'm sure I'll be back to ask questions and "lurk" to see what everyone's building. I have a little skill from working with my dad, but I consider myself a wood-butcher at best. It's a little off topic, but FHB (I subscribed to FHB, pops did FWW so we had both to trade.) had an aricle on wooden basement hatch doors that I liked. I have old wooden hatch doors now, that need to be replaced. Probably be my 1st set of adverse conditions after setting up and adding to the burn pile.
I'm assuming the Saw Stop accepts aftermarket tennoning jigs. The dinosaur craftsman miter slot is too narrow to do that. Just thought I'd ask
Thanks,
D
Wishing I started young like AndyFew
dcarroll3000,
I think thee is a Woodcraft in Manchester, CT. and a very good school in the Hartford area Ct Valley or something like that...they advertise in FWW.
This is an expensive hobby. It's good to build support on the home front with some strategic pieces. Once the CFO is on board things can go easier...
"I'm assuming the Saw Stop accepts aftermarket tennoning jigs. The dinosaur craftsman miter slot is too narrow to do that."
Yep, it's standard 3/4".
But don't rule out the dinosaur so quick. I've got one and, with constant attention to the rubber fence <G>, it does pretty well. I solved the tenon jig problem by taking a belt sander to the jig's guide rail. Only took a few minutes and it works fine on the Sears-o-saurus now.
One more comment on beginner advice. Over the years, the best work I've seen from beginners could hardly be differentiated from that of seasoned woodwizards. The trait that all these successful beginners shared was extreme patience. They didn't worry about doing anything fast, just right. That's a skill/habit that, if developed now, will serve you well forever.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I would strongly suggest you consider taking one or more courses at one of the better woodworking schools. I also started on my own but then took several week courses at Marc Adams school with many of the people who write for FWW or PWW or the like. There are a number of similar quality schools in your general region as well. I came away from the courses I took with a much better understanding of how to approach a project and how to properly use both hand and power tools and when.
In a posts earlier, Neil suggests a video by Marc Adams. I don't know about your time or money constraints but you might try Marc's website for introductory classes. Great stuff.
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
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