Good morning everyone,
For years my main bench has been laminated maple top on top of a few make-shift cabinets and drawers. The top is 96″x30″x3 1/2″ thick. I am (and have been for a while) in the process of designing a new bench thith drawers and closed cabinets under. I recently built a deck which left me with some 4×4 Ipe’ (Ironwood) cut offs. Does anyone know of any reason I should not use these and a few Ipe’ 2x’s for the legs and strechers ? Certainly the strength and weight is there. I think my only concern is the glue used to hold the tenons together, will gorrila glue work ?
Thanks,
John
Replies
Hey, if you have the material and are willing to work with the stuff, then go for it. Yeah Gorilla Glue will work, but Titebond III will also work and it's a lot less of a mess to use. It's water based, so clean up is a snap and it does not expand to 3x's it's volume like Gorilla Glue. Wow, did you say 4"x4" chunks of Ipe'? Who needs the weight room when you got that laying around?
Adam
Yep 4x4 3 feet long. That's why i figured it was cheeper to use them, then to pay for the weight in the dumpster ! I will give the tight bond III a try on some samples.
Thanks,
john
Also I think I've seen where Gorilla glue is not as strong as the other glues by quite a margin.
Well, I know from experience that you can indeed starve a joint using Gorilla Glue. Moisture is the key to that glue working properly. I was not aware of that some years back and I did not moisten each joint with some filtered water. After cleaning up all the hardened foam I was almost done with final sanding when all and I mean all the joints fell apart. After contacting to co. I found out it is recommended that there be 14-16% moisture content on the joint. Not so with Titebond WATER based glues!
I have to second the advice against using Gorilla Glue in this application. I fell for the hype that it was stronger than regular old wood glue, but I no longer use it. A thought on the Ipe: consider ditching the glue altogether. To resist the wracking that a bench suffers, draw-boring pegs, removable wedges, and/or threaded rod are excellent means of having a rock solid and disassemblable bench. Not to mention, that Ipe is probably still in the 14-20% MC range being a 4x4 and may continue shrinking for several years. I know it is a more stable species, but even if it shrinks by a hundredth, it's likely to crack the glue line. Drawboring and threaded rod joints allow for this without the joint being compromised. Good luck it will be a beautiful bench.
The only problem I foresee with using Ipe is that when it comes time to flatten it, you're really going to have a chore on your hands.
I have to flatten my top about once a year, because of the seasonal movement. Ipe is not a wood that is kind to hand planes. Of course, there are other methods.........
Just for your consideration. However, if you have the wood already, then get busy building that new bench, and show us pics when its done.
Jeff
I built a deck out of Ipe several years ago at a friends house. I can't say I enjoyed the process, but it sure was beautiful when finished. Had to pre-drill every frickin' hole, even with drill tip screws.
Hey Jeff,
Thanks for the input. I think you missunderstood.
The top will be maple. Only the legs and streachers will be Ipe.
John
I misunderstood. Sorry.
Jeff
Great use for the Ipe. You should be fine with titebond 3 for the joints. I have been making some wood doormats for the house out of some scrap Ipe and that stuff is nasty to work but very strong. If you are going to peg the joints The Japan Woodworker sells the #2 size miller dowels in Ipe. Anyway if your joints are tight it should make a great base for your bench just don't drop it on your toes.
Troy
Here are the pluses I can think of for ipe (and I considered it myself):
1. It's going to give your bench some major mass
2. I bet you don't have to level it all that much. It's really stable.
The minuses:
1. It will give you a hernia along with the mass. The stuff is scary heavy.
2. It's very abrasive, so if you slip, your chisel or plane blade will probably not damage the benchtop, but I'm not sure about the blade.
3. It's color. Benches tend to be light colored because it's easier to look at your work. I'm not sure if I buy that theory or not, but I know Ian Kirby said it should be light, and Frank Klausz said it didn't matter. So that one is up to you.
It looks like people are confused here, jpat. Your original post said using the Ipe' for legs and stretchers NOT bench top. Also, maybe using wedged through tenons or threaded rod might not be a bad idea as was suggested. It would make it somewhat of a knock down assembly. That way there is no risk of a glue failure of any kind. If the wood's been with you for some time, I don't think moisture content would be an issue, so Titebond III would do just fine.
Adam
Hey Adam,
Yeah maybe i didn't word it properly. Top will be maple, legs and stretchers will be Ipe.
I too came across some problems with the gorila glue. I always spray the joints with water let is soak and wipe it off. I think we are always afraid of that ouzing mess and just dont use enough. I take it that the Titebond III is like the regular Titebond that we all use, just a water proof formula.
Thanks to everyone.
John
Dear John,
That sounds like a good use for Ipe. Personally I have done a bunch of decks and have yet to find a glue that really holds well. Resorcinol isn't bad if you don't mind the mixing or the cancer. Tightbond 3 isn't bad. Gorilla Glue is outstanding for some applications, such as gluing the top on the bottle, it also excels at making a mess and staining hands. Other than that, it is pretty much useless. My only caution about gluing Ipe is that I would treat the glue as a secondary, rather than a primary form of joinery. That is I wouldn't say, glue two pieces together without some type of mechanical fastening and preferably a joint of some type. You know how you can just edge glue most woods? Well, that doesn't really work for Ipe. Experiment a little and break a few joints and see what you get. If you find something that works well, let us know. I would love to be able to find a reasonable way to glue this stuff up.
Best,
John
Well if you are looking for lighter weight legs I think you could by some cast iron legs for the bench :) I built a table out of the stuff (little 3' round job) and it really needs two peaple to move it! On the other hand it was 6' from a house that burnt to the ground and it is in perfect shape. It kind of scares me that Ipe is fire rated. (no joke it is)
Doug
I have a 38"x84" desk top I built of ipe from 5" wide boards that are glued with titebond and has 3/8" dowels every 6 inches.
The desk was underwater for 3 weeks during hurricane Katrina and amazingly survived without any warping or joints coming unglued. The resto f the desk was made from oak and well... warped like crazy. I refinished the ipe top after entirely too many hours of removing and sanding the old finish that was ruined. It looks as good as new now.
This wood is extremely heavy and was really difficult to work. However, it would be great for a workbench base. When I was given the ipe boards years ago by a friend who had them left over from building a deck I was told they were only good for decking and that I would only be wasting time if I tried using them to build a desk top. I now disagree.
Dear G,
Wow! That's quite a yarn! Two questions, what were the dowels made of and which Titebond did you use?Best,John
Hello John,
The dowels were made from teak. I had many teak dowels left over from my boat restoration days.
Some other furniture I built from teak back in the early 1970's survived the flood also. Unfortunately, as much as I like teak, the cost makes it too expensive to use on larger/newer projects. . but I also do not have any desire to use any more ipe..too heavvvy and hard.
I used Titebond II glue. I wiped down the gluing surfaces of the ipe with MEK to remove any oil (an old habit from boat building days). I recommend this for any oily or dense wood before gluing.
Happy Sawdusting,
Greg
Not sure if you've already glued up your Ipe legs and stretchers, but if you haven't, give PL Premium polyurethane construction adhesive a try. It is some of the most tenacious stuff that I have ever used, and has much better gap-filling ability than gorilla glue.
I use it in my shop all the time. It will stain your hands though.
That's a construction adhesive and isn't designed to give you an invisible glue line. It's plenty strong but won't look all that great in a fine WW glue-up
Excellent point. I do not use it where aesthetics are a priority. However, with careful application, a glue line would not be visible in a mortise and tenon joint.For me, a workbench is one of those function over form jobs, and when trying to join a difficult-to-glue wood like ipe, glue joint strength is of most importance to me.If I were making an Ipe table top (or something besides shop furniture), I would use some other adhesive though.I'm glad you pointed that out because I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there that have never used PL Prem. and do not know its qualities, good and bad.
My wife built this table out of IPE. She used Titebond III. It has been on the IPE Deck for over a year - no issues. It took 2 men and a boy to move it to the deck!
That is one sharp table! At least you don't have to worry about the wind blowing it around!
Something I've been thinking about trying: Ipe has such incredible stiffness that it might be feasible to make structural parts out of much thinner stock, almost as if it were metal. That could lead to some interesting aesthetics.
-Steve
I took the liberty of resizing your pic so it's easier to see, at least for me anyway.
OK, maybe I'm being selfish! Besides, I wanted to see more of your woodshop. :-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
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