Two years ago, I bought a Delta contractor’s saw. At the time, given all factors, it was the best buy for me.
It cost me about $500. Today I was in the big blue box store, and I noticed that the same/similar model is about that same price.
But I got the new Tool Crib catalog yesterday. And the Delta contractor’s saws in it, had prices approaching $1000. Maybe I missed something, but the specs read very much the same as my saw — same fence, same size motor. The only difference was that the Tool Crib version had one cast iron wing — mine has both wings being steel. Still, one cast wing doesn’t seem to be worth twice the price.
Did anyone else see this? Is there something that I missed?
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
Replies
The saw you saw recently probably is Delta's own Taiwan made clone of your somewhat older Contractor Saw. When they came out with their new US made models they took their tooling to Taiwan and manufacture the saw in their plant, sourced a Taiwan made motor and a specially designed a locally made fence. This saw is designed to be price competitive with other Taiwan Contractor Saws.
It is an excellent saw and a great value. Recent comparison tests have rated it very highly and given it a "Best Buy" recommendation.
Delta's current US manufactured saws have some newer features and higher price.
about the only difference I see between the X series and plainum is the accessories and extras they through in plus they give ya a 5 year warranty wih the x series
Darkworks: No Guns No Butter squilla and the bling bling.
AFAIK, both the Platinum and the new "X" series are US made. The 650 is neither a Platinum or an "X" and is made in Taiwan. Looking at it, it is virtually an exact replica of the pre-2000 model saws. For years it was the basic Delta Contractor Saw.
You are correct, the differences between the Platinum and "X" models are almost all marketing differences, not mechanical.
The advance pricing information on the Delta X line of tools, which are in transit to the store where I work part-time, suggests that Delta has raised the prices on all of the "new" tools. It is probably going to make those Jet tools look like an even better deal.
Can't really see how anything could make Jet look better!
HeHe Jeff! How's that for tool arguing nonsense! ;*)
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages/?msg=13278.1
Don
Edited 8/1/2003 1:49:31 PM ET by Don C.
It doesn't seem like anyone answered why Delta's price has for the most part doubled, or am I reading these posts incorrectly. I would be interested in any insights.
Will
I think the reason is as was said. The saw is now made in Tawain rather then the states. The motor is of asian make now rather then what I assume was formerly a Marathon, although I'm guessing on this one.
I bought one of the last delta, open stand, 14" bandsaws that was made in the states. Orginally cost five hundred and something, and I got it on close out for if I remember correctly, $399. The current Tawaneese replacement for this saw cost even less, and has a few more features then my saw. Quick release tension for example. Many bench tools also now carry the handle of "Shop Master" to identify that they are imports, and not one of the originals that look exactly the same. The BOSS for example does not say BOSS on it anymore. Just shop master.
Don
Thanks to all who responded. I guess that I have gained an understanding now, of why the new contractor's saws are so much more expensive.
It's because the contractor's saw division of Delta has decided to commit corporate suicide. They must want us all to buy our products from a competitor.
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
I think the basic quetion is whether one is willing to pay to have a "US Made" product. For example, my 1987, or so, Delta Contractor Saw cost me $799 at that time. It was only available with solid steel extensions--in other words, it was the basic saw. It was last offerred as a "Made in US" saw in 2000 (I think) and sold for about $599. In other words, in a time of greatly increasing prices, Delta had actually lowered the cost of the machine.
If you look at the Pentair Annual Report, you will see that they are not making a lot of money. They have to probably raise the price of their products to remain viable. Or, go to a lower production cost operation off shore. What's wrong with that? Your new car costs you more every year and it's mostly marketing and/or cosmetic changes.
Edited 8/2/2003 1:03:16 PM ET by Howie
"What's wrong with that? Your new car costs you more every year and it's mostly marketing and/or cosmetic changes. "
I'm old enough that I remember a lot of years that had rather tremendous inflation rates. But I would have trouble citing any other example in which a similar product from the same company doubled in price. Although Detroit has had some outrageous price increases, they never doubled anything in one year.
Make no mistake -- I truly want Delta to survive as a power stationary tool supplier in the United States. I like their products, and I own at least five of them. And I'd just love it if they are able to sruvive while employing some Americans. God knows we need to keep some manufacturing jobs somehow.
It's just that my opinion is that the buying public is not likely to pay almost twice the price for anything, just to keep an American factory open. I challenge any Breaktime reader to cite a specific example of a foreign product that is truly comparable (quality, size, materials, features) to an American priduct; where the American product is more than 80% higher in price; and where the American company has survived.
The sorry truth is that because we have already lost so many good manufacturing jobs, we can't afford to pay double just to keep the last few jobs here. (Used to be possible at one time, but no longer.)
And with that in mind, I sincerely hope that the marketing guys at Delta know something that the American buying public doesn't. If they do, then maybe they have a chance at survival. If not..........
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
I don't think we are talking apples and apples here. Delta's model 36-444 US Made Contractor Saw is still beign sold at $599. It is a basic model with steel wings and a UniRip (Cheap) fence and a 1.5hp motor.
The new X5 saws have cast iron wings, extension tables, Biesemeyer or Unifence fences and, most importantly, a dual horsepower motor that produces 1.5hp at 120 volt and 2.0hp at 240 volls, and they have a lifetime warranty. These saws are only slightly (about $100 dollars) more than the comparable prior model "Limited Edition" saws. Hardly "doubled in price".
The Taiwan made clone of their older contractor saw is sold at $490.
So, you can still buy your saw at $500-600.
I just took a look at Amazon to see if I could figure out what's going on here. There are a couple of contractor's saws, the most expensive being model 36-431, priced at $850. It has the Biesemeier fence system, which will run up the price. You may want to check on the other features.
I bought a 3 HP Unisaw five years ago and still think it's the classiest machine in my shop. Just turning it on makes me feel good! I spent about $1300...it's the 32 inch model with a Unifence. My only add-ons are a tenoning jig and an aftermarket miter gauge.
Although others may disagree, I am of the opinion the table saw is the heart of your shop, and deserves the greatest investment. You'd be hard pressed to convince me there's a better table saw out there for the money than the Unisaw. And the price on that tool has not changed appreciably.
I also noticed that the on-line offerings are as you mentioned. What had me starting this thread was the latest of the printed catalogs from Tool Crib.
In a special section of the catalog devoted to the new "X-series" machines, there are two offerings for the contractors saw. The lesser of the two has the unifence, and the other has the Beis. The lower price of the two is $949, and the higher is IIRC $999.
Both have the dual voltage/dual HP motors -- as does my two year old $500 model. (Mine also does not have the unifence, but it does have a very nice, very adjustable, and very versatile aluminum fence with "minitrack" slots. For me, this is at least as good as the unifence.) My fence has a 30" rip capacity. I honestly don;t remember what rip capacity the new offerings have, maybe it's 50".
Both of the tool crib offerings have at least one cast iron wing, mine has steel wings on both sides (one since replaced with a router table).
And the lesser of the two new offerings, as I mentioned, is $949. Although I'll agree that that is not truly double the $500 I paid, I'm sure bost Knots readers will agree that is is very close to twice the price (actually, it's a 90% increase).
I'm not arguing the quality of the new offerings. I trust Delta as a machine supplier, and I recommend them to friends, based on quality. It's just a bit hard to swallow a 90% price increase in a two year period.
Like I said in a previous post -- I really do hope that the marketing guys at Delta know something that I don't. If they do, they will thrive, and be around when I need to replace my tools.
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
Whatever. You restated all your earlier posts when I was hoping to get more specific on actual features. You pay lots more for cast iron than steel because the process for manufactuing it requires aging, etc. Also, the premium fences are more expensive, whether you think your's is just as good or not.
BTW, model numbers are the most reliable way to do an apples-to-apples comparison...not general feature descriptions.
Look, I have problems with Delta these days too. My last few purchases have been Jet...a 6 " jointer that came out before Delta introduced their's, and a 2HP dust collection system...Delta just didn't make the grade there.
My opinion, having both brands, is that Delta stuff is better made (fit and finish), their documentation is comprehensible (not an English translation of Chinese by a native Norwegian speaker) and their support more helpful.
>>And the lesser of the two new offerings, as I mentioned, is $949. Although I'll agree that that is not truly double the $500 I paid, I'm sure bost Knots readers will agree that is is very close to twice the price (actually, it's a 90% increase).
I think the point is that the same saw you purchsed for $500 is still available for $500. So, Delta did not raise the price of YOUR SAW. At the time you purchased your saw, Delta had a premium line of contractor saws called "Limited Edition" that sold for $800-900.
The new X5 line of Delta saws are comparable to--and replace--the "Limited Line" and are less than $100 more expensive. They also have some new features.
Compare any price increase to the "Limited Line".
>>For me, this is at least as good as the unifence<<
YesMa'am: This is probably the greatest differentiator. For you, the fence you have is good, but it is not a Unifence. Unifence, like Biesemeyer is a premium fence and typically add somewhere around $300 to the price of a saw. There is the majority of your difference. Cast extensions are typically around $65. What about mobile support?
Gotta match apples with apples...
Another, perhaps stupid thought: The prices quoted in the original post are from Tool Crib. When I checked Amazon, I saw lower prices. But Amazon IS Tool Crib, so how can they have different prices in their catalog than on the web site? I've not received a Tool Crib catalog in a long time (or else my wife throws them away upon arrival...).
On the other hand, if you're just looking for something to complain about, let us know so we stop wasting our time trying to address your issue.
OK, so I must be just imagining everything. I imagined that my saw has the dual HP motor, even though I noticed the difference when I hooked it up to 220.
I imagined that I only paid $500 for it, even though I remember what a deal I thought that was at the time, and even though DW would NEVER have let me spend more.
I just imagined that the fence is not one of those crummy stamped steel things that the $200 saws all have, even though I have made numerious jigs that slide nicely in the mini track slots.
And I only imagined that I saw a catalog from Tool Crib that had no less than eight pages devoted to Delta's "new" offerings. And that the two prices in that catalog were $949 with the Unigfence and $999 with the Beismeyer.
OK?
By the way -- I give up. I'm signing off of this thread. You won't hear from me on this subject again.
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
I'm done too. But I just want to clear up the dual horsepower motor thing for others. The Delta Dual HP motor will have on it's nameplate, 1.5/2.0 HP. If it only has 1.5HP, it is their standard 1.5 single HP motor.
Howie,
Exactly what are the new features that the X series has that the limited and platinum series doesnt. I couldnt find any difference. That doesnt mean that there arent any diferences it means that I checked them out and didnt notice any.
Darkworks: No Guns No Butter squilla and the bling bling.
I don't know specifically. Did you check the Delta website?
Also, Delta guys hang out on the WoodNet and are quite active. You might be able to get one of them to address that question.
As far as contractor's saws go, the only real difference I see is in the $100 or so higher price, the 5 year warranty and the freebies offered. It's more marketing than anything else. I believe the bandsaw did have some modifications.
The bandsaws have the larger (16" x 16") table, blade tension quick release, and a built-in 3" DC port (cast into the frame behind the lower wheel), just like the new made-in-China Shopmaster saws. But according to someone on WoodNet, the X-series bandsaw (along with the Unisaw, HD shaper, and some of the other machines) is still made in the US.Be seeing you...
Ron the X series is the same as the old saws. Just a new name to attract more youthful buyers.
Personally i think its a joke but hey, im sure those marketing guys got paid well. It will get passed onto us as consumers somehow....
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