Hi there,
Anton Gerner from Australia here.
Just a question that I would like answered.
For years I keep hearing about how MDF is banned in the USA.
Is this true, or just a myth?
Everyone uses it here, however I stopped using it about 1 year ago for health reasons and because I feel plywood is a much better product for fine furniture.
Replies
It's alive and well in the US, so to speak.
Take care, Mike
Hi Anton,
When I enquired and searched on this, the conclusion was that the US uses a low emission formula MDF, but the 'old' MDF that used to release significant amounts of formaldehyde (now a declared carcinogen) as it off-gassed is actively discouraged.
I'm sure that others from the USA will have more information and better data than this (ie: any truth to what I was told???)
Cheers,
eddie
Dear A,
MDF is very available in the US, I can't speak to its out-gassing, but I agree that plywood is a much better material in almost all circumstances. For paint grade shelves, we use it occasionally and for paint-grade panels as well.
John
Edited 5/18/2006 12:55 am ET by Jmartinsky
Sorry, but I disagree. Plywood has it place but so do solid, MDF, MDO, laminates, etc.
To limit one's self to "mostly" a single material is similar to limiting one's self to one finish or one saw.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Dear Tree,
I never said that I don't use it, I just think that in almost all circumstances, plywood is a better choice, including MDO, which is a plywood. I place MDF at the bottom of my list:1) Mainly because I hate the dust.
2) It doesn't take a fastener all that well.
3) It doesn't machine all that well.
4) It isn't all that strong.On the other-hand, it IS heavy! I had four sheets of 1" MDF (4x8) on my truck over the winter. They had been fork-lifted on, when I went to off load, I thought that they had been frozen down! I use it for shelves and panels when the budget doesn't support plywood. So, enlighten me, what applications do you see for MDF?John
For something that needs to be very smooth and will be painted, there's nothing that will beat the face of MDF without doing a lot of work. Plywood isn't even close. It was never meant to be used for structural pieces anyway. By density, it's lighter than some hardwoods and is 'only' 105#/sheet. I don't hoist it as much as I did before but I still can and I'm pushing 50. God, I hate saying that.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I agree about the painted surface, it has its uses, but to me they are limited. It can be a time saver for shelving although I still prefer ply. I guess that I'm "old school". 105# per sheet is for 3/4", yes? I sure hope so, because that 1" felt like a WHOLE lot more! Of course, I'm pushing 40 here, so I'm not as tough as I once was! Think of all the strength I'll gain in the coming ten years-!! Thanks for checking in.John
For general information MDF weighs approximately 48 lbs a ft³. Therefore, elementary maths reveals that an 8' X 4' X 3/4" piece of MDF (2 ft³) will weigh about 96 lbs and a piece of 8' X 4' X 1" MDF will come in at about 128 lbs.
The weight of the stuff certainly makes it something less than fun to handle but, so far, I manage 8' X 4' X 3/4" sheets of the stuff ok. I guess when I get fat, lazy, and finally give up playing rugby on a fairly regular basis (which I probably ought to do as I'm no spring chicken at something over fifty) then I'll be looking for assistance moving the stuff about, ha, ha-- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Wow, that IS disappointing! I was hoping for something closer to 200 lbs, or at least 150!John
John I did a bit of double checking on MDF weights using a manual I have from European makers of MDF. It occurred to me that my off the top of the head numbers might be wrong. I found however that I was about right.
They state that MDF weighs between 600 and 1000 kg/m³ depending on the specifics of the board manufacturer. Some boards are made lighter in weight and are intended more for looks, whilst other boards are denser designed more for structural integrity. Also, thinner boards tend to weigh more per cubic foot than thicker boards. This is due to the greater proportion of denser tighter packed outer layers compared to the less densely packed inner core.
There are roughly 35.31 ft³ in 1 m³ and 1 kilogramme weighs approximately 2.2 lbs.
Picking a middle figure of 800 kg/1m³ for weight results in MDF weighing near enough 50 lbs/ft³
Using the upper and lower weight extremes of of 600 kg/m³ and 1000 kg/m³ provided by the manual results in MDF weighing between about 38 lbs/ft³ and up to 62 lbs/ft³.
50 lbs/ft³ seems like a reasonable safe bet for apportioning the weight to most common or garden MDF.
I think I'll just pull my anorak around me a little tighter, adjust the plaster repaired bottle bottom glasses on my nose, and leave quietly, ha, ha. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
I was surprised to hear of such a myth. We have plenty of MDF here as well as an ultralight verison and a formaldehyde free version called Medex. Some of the most expensive high end furniture uses mdf for the core of veneered panels because the stability.
http://vca-inc.com/custom/index.html
No, MDF is readily available and in no way restricted. Go here for some info: http://www.design-technology.org/mdf.htm
Because of the formaldehyde, there is a push on to reduce the risks but everything is voluntary.
If anyone said it is banned, they are wrong.
What's the reason for the question?
No, but it should be banned. Just think what a better world it would be if cheap computer desk and kitchen cabinets were made out of real wood intead of MDF. We wouldn't have to live with white melamine covered shelving that warps grotesquely. And, a 4X8 sheet of almost any other material could be carried by one person. But most importantly, we wouldn't have to sit at a table that has a two dimensional photograph of real wood, laminated in plastic, and glued to a piece of MDF, and have it called furniture.
Edited 5/18/2006 1:37 pm ET by Handrubbed
"if cheap computer desk and kitchen cabinets were made out of real wood"
Isn't that an oxymorom neatly defined, Handrubbed?
I can't see any furniture maker making bespoke cheap desks and kitchen cabinets out of solid wood at western society wage rates. Can you?
If cheap as chips is what's required it seems likely that we'll have to knock the stuff out of man made board covered with plastic laminates or melamine.
The low wage rate economies can surely make much of that kind of thing cheaper again if it's made to a standard pattern in a mass production set-up? Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
and glued to a piece of MDF, and have it called furniture. Geeeeeeeee
was I insulted?? LOL..I made a very large six section library (book shelf?) Using that so called garbage MDF, Real hardwood face trim, and veneer plywoods.
The sections fill one wall about 50 foot long and almost 8 foot tall.I think it turned out beautiful. SO does everybody that has seen it.Yes, I am not that fond of cutting MDF, BUT it makes a perfect surface for paint and laminating veneers (on this project the veneer was 1/8 hardwood ply.) onto. All mating surfaces for the MDF and plywood for the case were made with lock miter bit (Easy SQUARE glue-up's).I wanted to use all veneer plywood but about 1/3 more total cost than using some MDF (laminated on top with 1/8 ply) for the shelves. All shelves have a slot for sliding hardwood 'book-ends'. A bunch of them.Sombody posted about machining MDF being hard/bad? It makes a PERFECT edge BUT you have to be carefull with it (ply edges damage easily too!)1/3 off of EXPENSIVE to make sure is nice!Anyway, Just me, and I have found that MDF has 'it's place'..I use it for jigs and bench tops often.
Please don't anyone take offense at my comments about MDF. I was referring more to the cheap KD type furniture and crappy kitchen cabinetry that permeates the market today. Sure MDF has a place; but that place is in stead of real wood. usually it is used to cut costs, but sometimes it is the best way to fabricate, I realize that. As the old saying goes, "There ain't noth'in like the real thing...". For many of us the real thing is just not always affordable.
Please don't anyone take offense at my comments about MDF..Geee.. None taken.. To each their own I say! Really. To get me mad you would have to try really hard!
For many of us the real thing is just not always affordable.YA said it ALL I think!
For years I keep hearing about how MDF is banned in the USA.
Is this true, or just a myth?
No it is not banned, but one can certainly hope...
Thanks for all your replies.
The reason I was wondering if MDF was banned was because for years I keep hearing stories about it is banned, yet I keep seeing it in books and magazines from the USA.
In Australia stories grow and grow until everyone just believes them.
So how many states do you think the US has? My wife's from Melbourne, and for some reason definitely was sure we had ** (a wrong number).
BTW I'm not making fun. I know Australia has seven states, and would venture to guess that far less than 10% of Americans know that. I will also admit I had NO idea how many states Australia had, before I met my wife. Hehe.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
<<In Australia stories grow and grow until everyone just believes them>>Then you'll probably want to pass along the one about Bigfoot, who prowls the Pacific Northwest seeking vengeance on men who cut his stands of fir, cedar, redwood and MDF. His MDF grows 5-10 feet a year and is guarded by baby-eating dingoes. But we steal 'em right away. Lucky, in these parts MDF grows in rectangular sheets and are a cinch to load in the back of the pickup and be gone afore the dingoes wake up.
I can't believe that another secret has been exposed. Now the whole world will figure out the origin, and PETA will become involved, then more regulations and red tape.
It's a sad day, indeed.
I have had a VERY difficult time finding MDF core melamine.... I just located a supplier who can get it on special order. I understand that there is a fair amount of formaldehyde in applying the paper to the MDF. Thus, I imagine it is not tops on retailiers list. But it is superior to the presswood offerred by most. I'm using it for cabinets near the laundry room with treated wood in the base/toe-kick.
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
Thanks I forgot about THAT one... LOL
dude just about everything anymore is built with that stuff
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