Is there a “best” brand of lathe tools?
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I’m shopping for my first lathe tools and I see a lot of brands out there.
Which are considered the highest quality? Sorby? Henry Taylor? Patience & Nicholson? Others?
Replies
I've only been at it a couple months, so I wouldn't venture a strong opinion about which are best. I think that may be a sort of personal thing anyway, as with most sorts of tools (ex. LV or LN BU jack plane?). One that's not on your list, but I think is excellent is Thompson.
Buy a cheapo set of HSS first and learn how to grind the profiles you like before purchasing an expesive set.Sharpening lathe tools is not obsessive like cabinet chisels plane irons etc.honing and polishing to 25000 grit. Alot of the time the tool is used straight off the grinder.It is something you do every 10 or 15 minutes .Also the shape is a matter of choice with the factory grind being only the starting point.With regard to " best", all the brands mentioned and some others Crown, Hamlet are good and very similar. The bigest difference is P.M . technology as they hold an edge longer but are harder on the grinding wheel.I think LV have a cheap set of HSS probably made in China like their Forstners
Ditto to what Jako said. I'm just starting with the lathe and tools also, and given the learning curve for grinding the chisels, I don't want to learn on expensive tools. Bought a selection of Benjamin's Best from Penn State, same tools we used in class. I already know they'll work just fine, suppose they might need to be sharpened a bit more often, so the folklore says. But I can use 'em up and then fork out for more expensive ones if that seems wise.
Lee Valley would be another choice I'd not hesitate with.
Forest girl, I found that Benjamins Best do not have to be sharpened more than an expensive brand, no more or less time between grinds. I have 4 sorby's and a Henry taylor skew. I actually prefer the BB skew to the Henry Taylor because of it's heft.
mike
"I found that Benjamins Best do not have to be sharpened more than an expensive brand...." Hi, Mike. Bonnie (Klein), our instructor, said basically the same thing and encouraged us to conserve our $$ where we could by not buying tools that cost 2-4x as much as the Benjamin's Best. Thank you for confirming that, as we all would rather buy wood, right??
I fudged on my first post because I knew there'd be a few posts that extolled the longevity of the edges of expensive tools -- better steel, all that stuff -- and I couldn't speak personally to that issue.
BTW, could you weigh in on my sharpening post, this thread. Thanks!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/1/2009 11:41 am by forestgirl
i started out with the "economy set" from LeeValley, inexpensive, anice complete set and good quality steel
ive never used "top of the line" tools
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1,330&p=56745
but these ones certainly do the job
really cheap sets will drive you nuts walking back and forth to the grinder every couple of minutes, these LV tools hold an edge very well
Those "really cheap sets" may not be high-speed steel? I just sold the Delta set that came with my used Jet 1236. Took them to class to see if Bonnie could help me reclaim them, since the previous owner, may he rest in peace, had let the tips on several get too hot and turned color. She put the ixnay on them due to the type of steel, too much of a hassle for tools that would have to be sharpened way too often.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
the leevalley set are hss, according to their catalog, and it was on that basis, that i bought them
im no turner, and even worse im sure at grinding turning tools, but the set from LV has served me well and continue to do so
for a beginner or occasioal turner, they offer a good selection of very robust tools at a decent price
I just read your post on grinding wheels. 60 grit and 120 grit is perfect. Usually I use the 60 grit for almost all lathe tool grinding. I do use the 120 afterwards on skews. I have even stoned skews on softwood turnings.If your grinder turns at 3450 rpm's like mine, try this . When grinding a gouge ,turn the grinder on and let it come up to full speed.Then turn it off and grind the tool til the wheel stops. Repeat as necessary,usually two or three times for me. This gives me a sharp and single facet grind,very important as I'm sure you know. If you have any problems grinding a single facet,try it. Not exactly sure why this works,but I think my success rate is about 99%.I have friends that I showed this to and they grind almost everything this way, including plane irons chisels and such.
mike
I found that Benjamins Best do not have to be sharpened more than an expensive brand, no more or less time between grinds. I have 4 sorby's and a Henry taylor skew. I actually prefer the BB skew to the Henry Taylor because of it's heft.
The BB lathe chisels, I strongly suspect, are made in either China or Taewan and then rebadged by stores around the world. I have a set, badged "Carba-tec, that are identical. I have seen others around Australia that are identical save for the name.
These are presented as good entry-level lathe chisels. What does this mean? I use them and fine them excellent. There are more expensive chisels around, but while they look nicer, I am not sure whether the steel is any better. Which brand is better? No idea - Hamlet sure look nice.
Are there different qualities of HSS and there are HCS? Will one make of HSS really hold an edge better than another? And if there was, could you really tell the different when you sharpen on a 60 or 120 grit grinder?!
The good news for newbies is that these chisels are cheap and decent. Also that you cannot burn the steel or damage the temper of a HSS chisel. Still, it is far better to learn your sharpening on the BBs of this world than the expensive ones.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Hey, Derek. I'm only a couple months into turning, but I think like every other area of woodworking and tools, there is good enough to get the job done, and the joy of using fine tools. The BB may be the sort of marples blue handles chisels of the lathe tool world, but I would never suggest that marples were the best chisels available or that there was no reason anyone might want some LN, Blue Spruce, etc.
In Australia, I would think you might have tried the PN stuff? I've heard good things.
I'm getting my feet wet with bowls, Dunbar's Windsor stool, and odds and ends likes tops and tool handles. Do you turn much?
I'm getting my feet wet with bowls, Dunbar's Windsor stool, and odds and ends likes tops and tool handles. Do you turn much?
Hi Sean
I've been turning mainly spindles and tool handles (lots of my detail/marking knives especially) for about three years. I would not claim any special ability.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Oh, in case it wasn't clear I don't claim any special ability either. I was just curious about you as I don't recall seeing any postings with Derek's bowls etc., and would have been curious to see. FWIW, here are some shots of my early efforts:
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Hi derek ,there are different kinds of HSS available for some tooling but the only difference I have seen in lathe tools is P-M (powdered metal) These are indeed harder than ordinary HSS .But they are still soft enough to be able to reshape .Something that is difficult with Carbide tips.My experience with lathe tools has been that it is essential to grind the tool for the purpose.eg a long lady's fingernail grind to a stubby laborers finger grind for different purpose. jako knee deep in architectural turning as we speak!!!
Derek, last night I mounted the new wheels on the grinder and set about my first grinding task on the Benjamin's Best, that of turning a 3/4" x 1/8" parting tool into a skew. This is something that Bonnie suggests, in order to get a skew that's only 1/8" thick. I figured "What the heck, why not?" and set about grinding the daylights out of the parting tool.
By the time I got half-way through, I was feeling pretty darned relaxed about grinding away on a new chisel. But best of all, the tool never heated up beyond the point that I could touch it. Yes, it was hot, but not fatally so. The pink 60-grit wheel on the HSS worked just great, no quenching necessary.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
What is the benefit of a skew that is only 1/8th inch thick? Just curious.
I'm sure she told us, but I had so much thrown at me that weekend, I'm not remembering. Keep in mind, she works mostly on a midi-lathe on smaller items, that could have something to do with it. I decided to go ahead an give it a try, just for fun. Certainly is economical -- the parting tool cost me $12.50.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG
No matter how much you heat HSS on the grinder, you will not affect the temper. The colour of the wheel is irrelevant for HSS lathe chisels. This only becomes important when you are working with blades other than HSS.
Grind in peace.
Regards from Perth
Derek
FG,
I got a real good deal on lathe tools - the set of eight pieces cost something like sixteen dollars. They came from Silvo hardware when I was building a GF clock. Uh, that must have been Uh thirty nine years ago. Haven't used them much since then but I did sharpen them up the other day.
Too funny, Tinkerer. How'd the clock turn out? I love grandfather clocks.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Actually. the clock turned out quite well for this novice. It was the first piece of furniture that I ever tried beyond high school. I got the lathe to finish the clock. My wife was expecting something like an apple crate with a clock mechanism mounted in it. When I finished it, she and I had an agreement that she was going to pick me up from work where I was building it on off hours and we would take it home. She called up and said, "You had better find another way home and take me to the hospital." We had a first child - a girl that night who claimed that she and the clock had the same birth day so they should be united. So now I would like to build another GF clock. She lives in Minnesota so I go visit with the clock and family about once a year. I have been fascinated with clocks for most of my life. I would attempt to send a pic but don't have one on digital.
Edited 11/4/2009 12:27 pm ET by Tinkerer3
Edited 11/4/2009 12:28 pm ET by Tinkerer3
I'll echo what Jako and FG said: start with cheap tools to learn which grinds you like. Cheaper tools also tend to have softer steel which means they are quicker to regrind to a new profile.
and www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Not a best brand but is clearly a best kind! Buy one good carbide tipped tool with a replacable insert and learn how to use it. If you want to do bowls, start with a circular tip. Do you use a carbide tipped saw blade? Does it cut or scrape?
I haven't seen any carbide tool in my recent search. Who carries them?
Search using Google for carbide wood turning. For example -
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=26B92C2EF9D30E7E&search_query=carbide+wood+turning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFfgP7HBbiA
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-Carbide-Woodturning-Chisels-Lathe-Woodworking-Tool_W0QQitemZ360200777582QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53dda3af6e
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbide-Woodturning-Chisel-Wood-Lathe-Woodworking-Tool_W0QQitemZ360201095036QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53dda8877c
They are not difficult to make - a piece of steel rod flattened (ground flat on the end with a hole tapped in it) and a handle.
You asked about the best.
Patience & Nicholson:
http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=tools-pn
Edited 11/4/2009 9:50 am ET by Marsupial
To answer your question directly: I really like the tools that Doug Thompson makes. Great steel, great price, stay sharper longer than anything else I've used. No affiliation, other than I have 7 of his offerings and will buy more. Nice guy to boot.
http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/
Rich
If you are just startilng with turning, then it'll be a long time before you will notice a difference between reasonably good and super good. One doesn't need a Masseratti for his first driving lesson. When you have developed your technique to a fine point, then is the time to consider super quality tools. Any handicap you may have experienced will only have caused you to concentrate more on your technique. All of this doesn't apply if one has unlimited resources.
Tom
"When you have developed your technique to a fine point, then is the time to consider super quality tools." Amen. Not to mention sharpening. I had to re-grind my skew chisel twice before I got it working half-way decently. Was afraid it'd be 3" long by the time I figured it out, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG
If you are having a little difficulty with the skews, try my method (if you are in a position to do so). This creates razor sharp edges in seconds.
Keeping in mind that you cannot burn HSS, I use a disk sander (on my disk sander-belt sander combo), working with 80 grit if I need to regrind, 120 for general work, and 240 for the sharpest edges. I do this freehand, but it would be easy to come up with a rest/jig if you need this.
The following image is of a rouging gouge being honed ...
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Just make sure that you allow the direction of the wheel to turn away from the bevel.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek, great timing! One of my classmates from the turning class was presenting at the Port Townsend Woodworkers Show yesterday and we talked about sharpening on a belt sander. I mentioned your set-up with the combo.
My combo's been sitting in storage since the electric crew outfitted the shop, but it'll come inside soon. The problem I was having was mostly related to getting the correct angle on the double-bevel. Second was getting a nice clean bevel with z-e-r-o facets.
Do you use a straight-across-the-tip skew, or do you curve yours? I wanted to make one with that nice curve, but the curve always disappeared by the time I got done with the bevels. practice, practice, practice.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Do you use a straight-across-the-tip skew, or do you curve yours? I wanted to make one with that nice curve, but the curve always disappeared by the time I got done with the bevels.
Hi FG
I have skews that are both straight and curved. How are you doing the curved bevels - there must be a reason you are finding it difficult (because it should not be).
Regards from Perth
Derek
Everything is completely freehand on the grinding wheel right now. Funds for accessories are non-existant and will be for a month or two. Probably just need to practice a bit.
What kinds of tasks do the curved and straight do best? I understand the whole thing about skews wanting to catch, but that doesn't seem to be an insurmountable problem.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'm watching Richard Raffan's DVD right now, watching him sharpen the curved skew. Will have to make a couple tool rests for my grinder -- I have the same one that's in his shop for the DVD, but the tool rests were removed. A bit of a drawback, that. Thought I could make do without, but perhaps not, as it looks much easier when the tool has something to steady it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
During my search for tools, one of the sites (unrelated to Oneway) just raved about this jig. http://www.oneway.ca/sharpening/vari-grind2.htm
This guy uses a chain saw for turning.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=60875507198
M42 Steel for Chisel
The best Wood turning chisels are made of M42. M42 is basically a HSS steel that is doped with 5 to 10% Cobalt. The M42 cutting edges stay 5 to 10 times longer sharp then on a common HSS tool. I hear you: carbide tools are harder and should be sharp for longer, but my answer is. Carbide cutting tools are great for metal due to the smaler free angles. But free Angles for wood should be bigger, therefore cutting edges for wood are to sharp/ pointy and are just that easy to damage weare faster. Im a retired Swiss gov certifyed tool and die professional, and with that said i guess i know a few things about cutting tools.
One problem, most wood chisels are made of the common HSS steel, it is hard to find tools made of M42. Carther and Son with Wodworks are the only ones i found so far that manufacture tools that have M42 steel tips. The tools are a bit expensive but they do last longer so worth while in that regard. Sharper tools translate to nicer finish, i guess that is a no brainer. (Me, i heat sanding) By the way, I'm not related to the Carters, I'm just a guy that knows what he wants. PJ
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