Hi all, I’m new to this forum. I’m a weekend woodworker, and a frustrated draftsman during the week. I’ve built a 1/2 dozen original pieces of furniture, and designed a couple dozen on my computer. My question is this….how realistic is it to make a living doing what I love? I realize this is an open ended question without any definitive answers, but nevertheless, I’m posing it.
I’ve started taking woodworking night classes with a master craftsman, a person who makes his living teaching and building custom furniture. The long-range goal is to make some extra scratch making some furniture, possibly for a living. I just don’t know how feasible it is. Seems to me that people are willing to spend good money on not-so-good furnishings. That seems like a market ripe for the picking.
Anyone out there making a living with their woodworking?
-Drew
Replies
Sure, it is possible to make a living strictly doing wwing -- but only if you're willing to eat water on your Wheaties.
Chris Becksvoort admits to making a little under $35m a year -- and he's one of the best there is.
The best solution is to have a wife that has a steady job, with good benefits, and a great salary.
Ok, although my wife is as supportive as they get, she doesn't have the salary/benefits/etc. that it would take. I have no problem living the simple life though (but wheaties and water is pushing it). Maybe something like Bill Arnold has going on....retire early and make my hobby a paying gig. Is it too much to ask to have a cool couple million to take care of mortgage and insurance so I can live my dream? Everybody now....visualize rivers of money flowing my way!! thanks yall :)
Drew,
I'm not sure why you brought my name into this discussion. I don't know who you are since you don't have any personal information in your profile. But, then, many of the folks on the Forum choose to remain anonymous for whatever reason.
I wish I had the "cool couple of million" to which you refer. Far from it! Two divorces in my lifetime took its toll along with exes that could outspend any amount of income. Fortunately, I am now with a lovely woman who makes my life wonderful regardless of the amount of income we have. We dedicated ourselves to remain debt-free and pay all our bills when due. We live in a nice neighborhood, we have no mortgage (paid it off a few months ago after much discussion with the financial advisor at our bank), and my wife has a steady job that won't go away. She makes more than the average woodworker, but not enough to drive a Lexus!
Some people fritter away most of what they make on expensive things to impress others. We are as we are and you can take us or leave us. All of us have known the type of folks who decide they can't associate with you because you drive a pickup truck. It's their loss, not ours. Take us for what we are or get outta Dodge.
I'm sure I could be gainfully employed rather than making furniture and other items for our home. I'm slowly, but surely, developing relationships that could lead to some good commissions down the road. I'm also building some speculation pieces that will, I hope, be gallery quality so that might be another direction to go.
Each of us has to decide what's important in our lives. The most important thing for my wife and me is a loving relationship. It pleases her that I can build things to make our home look nicer. I'm pleased that I can take a deep breath after a lifetime of working for the other guy and do what I want to do.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Sorry Bill, didn't mean to offend or imply that you're loaded. What I meant was that I saw your web site, and it looked like you were able to retire early and put some time into building a second career at woodworking.
Thanks for everybody's 2 cents. The way I figure it, you've gotta work, so it might as well be doing something you like, right? The trick is making enough money to support your family!
For now it's a pie in the sky dream, but given time, I'm sure I can get something going.
No problem, Drew. I just thought I'd take the opportunity to explain a bit more about where we're coming from. If I had had the confidence to take my woodworking to a higher level earlier in life, I probably would have been tempted to give it a go. By staying with my 'desk job', I earned enough to help get us set up for what I'm doing now.
Being a bit (a lot?) older than some of you who want to make woodworking your career helps -- no kids at home! My kids have also learned that Dad will no longer be a soft touch when money problems arise. We have friends who feel obligated to feed their kids all the money they need even after they're married and have their own kids. Call it 'tough love' or whatever, I had to make my own way and the only way my kids will ever learn is by having to consider where every dollar is going.
Thanks to being frugal from the beginning of our relationship about 13 years ago, my wife and I can now be in a situation where she supports us, but primarily because she wants to keep working. The way she is, I don't see her 'retiring' even when she qualifies for it. Her attitude is 'the longer I work, the more that goes into the 401k and pension funds'. Wow! I love that gal!!!
Anyway, good luck in whatever direction life leads you.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
DOes you wife have a sister. I'm like you similiar backround. Been doing it for near 35 years. But I been struggling alone :) SO whats your secret ?There are four boxes to be used in defence of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order - Ed Howdershelt
"DOes you wife have a sister. ..."
Nope. She's truly one of a kind!
"... I'm like you similiar backround. Been doing it for near 35 years. But I been struggling alone..."
How long have you been 'alone'? After things cratered with my ex after 20 years, I thought I'd just want to be alone for a while (like the rest of my life), but then my true soulmate came along and here we are!
" :) SO whats your secret ?"
Well, if I told you, then it wouldn't be a secret, would it? On the other hand, this isn't quite the right forum for that type of information. :-)
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Bill, I wish you hadnt let me down with this post and your honesty. I was about to hit you up for a "loan" for a Unisaw.Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
You hit the nail on the head.
My $.02
Alot of the love is lost when it is needed to pay the bills. I end up doing alot of carpentry work and a few built ins (my shop is not yet set up for full time production/custom cabinet work). I too would rather build furniture and have long term goals like you do. Might be the grass is always greener deal on this one. My true love is charity work. To be truely appreciated is the greatest pay of all.
I have been in the woodworking Biz in Nebraska for 31 years now.I love it. I have learned from some fine Craftsman over the years.It is in my sole.However, I have never made over 35-40k per year in my life weather I was self employed or worked for someone else.
My wife has been with me threw thick and thin.(She has a very good job)
The years have done a number on my health. Things, I could have prevented if I would have used hearing protection and a respirator.
The amount of tools a man needs to do a good job a this profession is well very pricey.
Very best to you.
Remember there is alway something to build.
Jimmy
Definitely possible, but marketing and management skills are more important than woodworking skills. Your woodworking skills have to be good enough to meet your customers' expectations, but without marketing and management skills, the woodworking skill is useless. You also have to pick your niche carefully, and find a segment of the market where you can make some money.
I was real close to six figures net as a one man shop before I got sick last year and had to stop for a while. It took me a long time to get there, but that was because I insisted on doing things that I liked to do, and often accepted challenges that nobody else would do - often for less money than I could have charged. Apparently my customers liked what I did, too, because I never had to advertise for work in 15 years. The money started really coming in when I started doing on-site repair, which I don't enjoy nearly as much as creating and designing things, but when somebody will pay you $80 for 10 minute's work, it's hard to pass up. Government contracts were great, too.
No matter what you choose to do, it gets to be a job most of the time. There's a lot of just plain work to balance out the rewards of creation and completion, and then, of course, ther are customers. I have been blessed with good ones, because I always worked by referral, but even the good ones can be a trial at times.
My advice would be to work on the side, 20 hours a week or so, until your work is good enough that you can earn at least $60 per hour of shop time. That may sound like a lot right now, but it is bare minimum for a one-man shop, since you'll be doing well to spend more than half your time actually producing. Maybe the most important thing is learnig to ask for the moneyand get it, and to walk away from jobs where the money isn't there.
The biggest difference between amateurs and pros is the tyrrany of the checkbook.
Michael R
To add to what Michael said, what you are able to gross is immaterial: it's how much you are able to net that most affects your ability to sustain a business at a level that will support your family.For me, the most germane question was, "Will I still enjoy this work when I absolutely have to do it on the basis of sustained productivity and profitability?"Good luck,-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
I do it full time so don't believe people when they tell you , you can't make a living woodworking. Its simple. you take all your profit invest it in antacid stock, heart disease and mental illnes drugs and bill collecting companies and your sure to make a profit.
Woodworking is getting harder and harder to make it. A few always do. Your woodworking skills won't be the problem. You have to compete against the going attitude that is prevelant in this country. Thanks to Walmart, red chinese army and the immigration problem. There is a full blown attack on eliminating the middle class in this country. By both parties. So your best bet is to work on getting contacts in the upper crust who can afford what you do. Sell a few peices and get into it gradually and hopefully full time. you'll find that getting a full 8 hours a day woodworking will be frustrating goal. unless you can get your SWMBO to handle the sales, marketing and bookkeeping. Or you like 16 hour days. I live for them :)
I've been woodworking full time for about 7 years. My wife has always been a stay at home wife, so paying the bills and trying to stay afloat has been hard. Some of the problems of being a full time woodworker is job burnout (believe it or not), having to keep pushing yourself and trying to stay motivated, long hours, fickle markets. The area I live in was saturated, for a number of years, with full time furniture shops so to get a nice retail price in my area for my products has been nearly impossible. So about 99% of my sales are wholesale. Then there's the flood of Asian furniture to contend with, resulting in a number of those woodworking businesses being unable to compete with low priced furniture and having to close or do something different. Had it not been for finding cherry trees available and getting them sawed, and drying them in my kiln in order to keep my operating costs down, I seriously doubt I would have been able to survive all these years.
Finally, having said all that, I still love woodworking as a whole, and I don't forsee doing anything else. I also agree with the earlier commenter that your much better off if your wife is able to bring in some additional income and if your fortunate enough to live in an area where you could do alot of high-end custom work it will be a big plus. As for me, my wife finally after staying home and seeing all the children being raised might get the opportunity to work a little starting this fall when our last little one starts school...
Is there a career in being a rock star? ;)
Yup, you can make a living but you might end up being a wedding singer.
OK, enough with the analogies.
My experience while being solo and working in a few shops as a worker pretty much confirms the other responses.
I'm going to assume you are referring to a career as a designer/craftsman. People would buy from you because they love the things YOU build.
Not a cabinetmaker or contract woodworker which means little to no design involved. People buy from you because they need a service and you have the skills and equipment. Many shops could execute their design which they already have worked out to some degree. Kitchens or cabineture seem to be different business model.
I find that the marketing aspect is one of the most important for design based product. You have to be able to get across to people the difference bewteen hobbyist skills and professional skills regarding design and execution.
No offense to the quality a hobbyist can produce.
But an experienced designer/builder will be able to provide exclusivity. And design skills with technical skills are not a common combination. You want to be the only source for what you are selling. Anyone with basic skills can build a Stickley knock-off.
One of the better crafters in my area made his money in another business and bought property wisely. So he is able to woodwork as much or as little as he wants. The thing I really appreciate about him is that he sells for a fair market value even though he is doing it mostly because he loves it.
Then again there is another guy that sells his hobby just so he can buy a new tool. Whats worse is he shows at an annual local craft show so tons of people think they should get a handmade dresser for $500. If he were relying on his woodworking he would not survive. But he works for the local university and loves woodworking so he is happy just to get his material investment back. He is the equivalent of the Chinese in my market because his price is not realistic. Luckily he is not much of a designer.
Before I became a woodworker I was a buyer and manager for a hip furniture store. I saw a lot of design and was always amazed that we could have two superficially (price included) similar tables and one would be the seller. Small details seemed to make the difference. I don't mean chamfers or tapers but slight differences in the angles and proportions of those details. One "works" and one doesn't. So it does help to have design skills if you are going to have a product for which people are going to pay a premium.
I do know of a couple of guys that do strictly creative, high end woodworking and make a living. That living means being able to own your house and support your family. But they aren't living in McMansions and don't drive Escalades. Plain old middle class. But they get to do what they enjoy the most and have the respect of their peers. They are also both geniuses but I don't know if that is absolutely necessary.
You can make a living but that is a pretty subjective concept. If you just want to build then good jobs are hard to find. Clean, well equipped, safe shops are not the norm in this industry. But look hard enough and they can be found.
Woodworking; if you're in it for the money, look elsewhere, there are easier safer ways of doing it.
You have to love it and if everything works out maybe you can be one of the "rock stars". But there are a lot of us "club musicians."
Last thoughts is to have all the equipment you need to produce efficiently, the space you need to maintain workflow, and enough money to pay the bills for 18 months indepent of your business income. I always thought the money reserve was to cover the time you build a customer base. Seems like its true function is to keep you going while you get your s**t together. Meaning there will things you'll need to do or equipment to buy that you didn't know at the outset.
Good luck.
Drew,
For me, woodworking is an expensive hobby, paid for by my profession.
My father was a master craftsman, one of the best, he started and closed down three furniture factories, before he opened a steel manufacturing business which ran very successfully for around 20 years. He then sold his shares and went back to woodworking as his retirement hobby and got enough commission work, just to keep him busy. He passed away in 1996, leaving me with some of his skills. We were a family of three children and each of us have around 4000 sq ft of housing full of my fathers furniture. Mine has travelled with me around the world.
Personally, I would love to do woodworking full time, but I understand the business world well and know it's the wrong thing to do.
I believe you can make money in woodworking by going into two directions. For both, you need to be very well connected to people who will market and sell for you on a sales commission basis. The sales person in turn needs to be well connected to custom furniture stores and the industry.
The first and probably most successful would be mass production of cabinet components, off shore, exporting the lumber and importing the finished product, while selling at a better price than the current market.
The second, would be that one in a million chance of making products which are really high end and becoming famous with people living in high places.
If you are an average woodworker and can live below $50k per year, re-modelling and woodwork thrown in as part of the deal, should be very possible. You need enough money to buy that first fixer upper house though, with the beer cans and the broken car engine lying in the front yard.
I have been a professional woodworker for twenty five years, selling boxes and small stuff to gift shops and galleries. Yes it is possible to make a living, but, BUT, you must be very truthful with yourself with regards to the marketability of your product. That you are pleased with your production doesn't work; the question is does it sell in the volume that is necessary to support your desired living. Then if the answer is yes another question is presented to you, "are you willing to make this item day after day, year after year, for so long that you may no longer be able to distinguish yourself from the machines you burn out.
Would I do it again if God offered me another twenty five years? Emphatically yes. It is the greatest exercise of freedom and challange to the imagination. But I would do it differently and not lock myself into a handful of products, I would work harder to add every dimension to my skills, and I would be more technologically alert for in the end the profession is as much about marketing and technolgy as it is about boards and table saws--maybe more about.
Good luck to you.
I'm one of those lucky guys with great wife! She doesn't make a ton of money as a teacher but it comes with a steady paycheck and great benefits. When we got married we decided one of us should be home with the kids when they were young. As a deparment head of a large custom cabinet shop, my wage was good and steady but didn't offer the kind of benifits that her's did. We built a shop behind the house while she was expecting and I started building cabinets and bookcases during naps and evenings. It didn't take much to make up the difference between my take home pay and the cost of a sitter, and I wouldn't trade anything for the time I had with the kids. Eventually word of mouth spread and I got some bigger jobs. I now have a core group of clients that I build really nice furniture pieces for, and kitchens by word of mouth. I also have gotten some good contacts through a specialty wine shop that I have done work for. I now have to turn work down, and that's a good thing. It allows me to pick and choose the work I do. Next fall both kids will be in school full time and I will have to decide what to do when I "grow up". I like the idea of staying a one man shop, though I know I'll never get rich doing it. Like the others have said it's all in what you want. To me the flexibility it gives me to be able be there for my family is worth the lower income. Building real custom kitchens (which I don't really enjoy) gives me the contacts (and income) to nab the furniture jobs I aspire to do more of.
I had the luxury of being able to take my time and build skills and clients over time with out the pressure of having to put food on the table. I don't think I ever would have had the courage to drop my regular job for the uncertainty of a one man shop. As previously advised you may want to ease in slowly, part time, and build your skills and client base. The other advantage is you can take the profits and buy tools and build up your shop with out having to go into debt. The one good thing if I try to expand is I don't owe anything on my equipment. If I hit a slow period I know we can meet all our bills and I can hunt work without panic.
What ever you choose good luck!
Brian
I spent my high school and college years pleading for a way to learn to build furniture. Lots of laughs, "but seriously..." I did what I could, however I could, with no equipment, training or support, but lots and lots of desire. I started work for a picture framer/glass restorer/furniture restorer and that got me in sorta the right direction. I wanted to do the best work in the worst way, but spent most of my time thinking I couldn't do it, much less how, where, when etc.
Then I had an epiphany. Simply put, "Someone has to do this kind of work, why not me?" Sounds trite now, but it was a revelation for me. Then I saw the first issue of Fine Woodworking (cue violins), and I knew that others were making wonderful things and on their way to making a living by doing so. I walked into the best local shop I could find and started at minimum wage. Within 3 years, I was building curved staircases. Another 7 years, running a 6 man architectural shop that won the AIA craftsmanship award. Long story short, I now have a 4 man shop doing the best architectural woodwork in the area. A 35 year overnight success! (Acornwoodworks.com)
The point is that someone has to be the next succesful woodworker. Maloof and Krenov will not live forever, though I mean them no disrespect. Someone will take their place. Someone will make a nice, fair, honest living making beautiful things everyday. Why not you?
Dave S
Thanks for all of the excellent insight. It pretty much confirmed my thoughts on the matter. It's not only the design/build aspect of it, but also business, marketing, etc. etc. There's a lot to consider, and easing slowly into it is probably the best way to go. I especially like the idea of slowly building a client base and reputation and working from there. Money for new tools/materials is a nice touch too!
As of now, I've got a relatively well paying, albeit sometimes tedious, job with a pension (remember those?) and a chance to retire in my 50s. Too tempting to chuck it all, but I can dream, can't I?
Thanks again for all the insight, I enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts.-drew
Drew -
Read Countertops thread for his (and my) ideas on how to be successful.
A lot depends on your locale - i.e. a large metro area where rates are higher - or middle of nowhere.
I'm working at $40 hour, but even that may be a little low, I'm finding. I live nor far from Minneapolis/St. Paul, and my sister pays $65 for a massage.
Best advice I can offer is find an underserved niche in the market.
Hi Drew,
Not much I can add to the excellent responses you've already received. I've been a full time pro for 20 years and whenever someone asks how to go about making a living at woodworking I respond "You first have to believe $8000 a year is a good income." I get the laugh but then make sure they know I'm serious.
Best of luck to you, Steve
You have to think about the market for what you make and how to be productive, not just creative. Henry Ford didn't sell the model T for $500 because that what it cost him to make it. He improved his production processes so that he could sell the car for $500 and still make a profit, because $500 was the price that the market would bare. The fact that mr becksvoort makes $35k in a good year does not surprise me. He states that his backlog is 6-12 months. Clearly he has built up a good customer base, but his productivity is lacking, IMO.
How would I improve productivity if I ran my own shop? Number one with a bullet is to outsource the rough milling. Pay $0.15 bd/ft to have your lumber surfaced and ripped on one side at the mill. That frees you up to do all of the real work. After all, your core competency is supposed to be designing and building furniture, not the apprentice work of planing. After that, I'd just make two or three of everything. That can keep your price competitive with the high-end furniture shops. The setups are the time-killers on most projects.
My teacher Berthold Schwaiger has the best (in my opinion) situation I've seen. He teaches night classes and during the day has a team of 10 apprentices to help build his designs. He's reached that level where he can offer apprenticeships no cost/no pay and have people build up their skills over the year while also selling studio-art furniture and taking commissions for custom furnishings. Ideally I'd like to do the yearlong apprenticeship then get a studio of my own, but like everyone else, I've got a mortgage and family to feed. Realistically I'll finish my classes and sell an odd piece or 2 in Berthold's studio or on commission in a local store.
What originally got me thinking about this was an article I read about a guy who makes humidors in his small garage shop. Don't remember if he's making a living at it, but it's a niche market that affords him some extra money.
Drew,
I had the same thoughts years ago. Go on my own and make sawdust from sunrise to sunset. I learned that in my location woodworking is a tough business. After looking at my options, I chose my plan "B". I will wait until I'm 55 yrs old to start the business. At that point in time I'll have a 30 year pension from my company, my house will be paid off, I will have a shop with no loans, and my kids will be grown, and out of collage. I estimate I can earn $10K to $20K a year working part time in semi-retirment. With my pention, and no loans outstanding, I think that will hold me until I get old enough for IRA's and social security. In the mean time, I continue to learn and build a small base of customers. That's my plan "B".
In 9 years, 8 months, 9 days, 6 hours, and 24 seconds, I can semi-retire, and start my woodworking business. But who's counting.
GRW
I would think a 6-12 month backlog means your pricing is too low. It's somewhat personal choice, but I wouldn't want the presuure that comes with that sort of work load. I'd rather scare some off, if indeed that happens, with higher prices.
"I would think a 6-12 month backlog means your pricing is too low. "
Boardman,
So, how much higher should Sam Maloof raise his prices? LOL!
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
6-12 months back log is a pretty comfy feeling when you are making ($$) what you need to survive and I would guess a little more. It's not all about the $$$. Write a book and do it for free.
It seems that everybody here who says you can't earn much in woodworking has been trying to compete with either large cabinet operations or retail stores. I think that is a huge mistake.
I am only a competent woodworker, nothing real special, but if you have a picture, I can pretty much make whatever it is and have it come out right the first time. I am an excelent finisher, if I do say so myself, and that is one of the keys to my niche in the market place. I could never compete in price with a retail store, nor would I want to. My prices run four to ten times what stores would get on a comparable item, and they are probably still too low.
The only way for a small shop to prosper is to offer what other shops can't. You have to have something that sets you apart. The most important thing is to find customers who want things they can't get elsewhere, and who are willing and able to pay for it. These people are usually at the top end of the market, and expect excellent work, but they are where the money is for a small guy, in my opinion. My key specialty turned out to be that I can apparently do a better job than anybody around at giving people exactly the finish and look that they want, from ancient to the most modern, with glazes, Faux grain, gold leaf - anything.
There's also a huge demand for all kinds of furniture repair - touchup and damage repair, upholstery repair and cleaning, recliner mechanisms, leather repair, especially if you can do it in the customer's house or office. There's one guy in town who gets $130 an hour for leather repair. I charge $80 an hour for one guy with a van. Point is, if you can develop the skills, there's money, but you have to go where the money is. You'll never make any money in a small shop by doing work for price shoppers. The customers you really wnat are the ones who are asking "who can best give me what I want."
MIchael R
Edited 3/24/2005 12:18 pm ET by Woodwiz
Michael,
I have a friend in Atlanta, who does exactly what you are referring to. He has no web site, does only kitchen cabinets and real high end furniture for customers who appreciate craftsmanship. He built his business up through word of mouth only.
Neil's success though is based on having a wife who works as a VP for a fortune 500 company, she is very well connected and they move in high circles. This gave him the opportunity to build up his business over a period of almost 20 years. People take pride in owning a piece made by him. He is also well connected to some Architects.
I believe he grossed around $140k per year from a one man shop, with a helper some times.
The challenge is to get well established while not having a financial burden in the early years.
My story is kind of the same. When I started doing custom work, my wife was selling real estate, and I got some good contacts through her, but very soon I had too much work and started gradually raising my prices.
I 15 years, I have never had to solicit work, and never had to deal with tire kickers At the time I had to shut down temporarily, I was hovering on the threshold of 100k net, not gross, which was my minimum goal as a one man shop. I had planned on at least doubling that, but I will have to have employees to meet that goal, and you always make a lot less money when you first start employing people. By my experience and projections, I will have to have at least four employees to net what I can on my own. That means advertising, office help, and lots more.
In the meantime, while I've been off, I've come up with an idea that could be worth millions, so who knows what's going to happen now.
Point remains, if you're going to make decent money you have to go where the money is, and fill a need that's not being satisfied. That's maybe not the only way, but it has worked for me so far.
Michael R
You are right about finding a need which is not satisfied. Successful life in every aspect, no matter what you do, is about making sure people need you. I sigh every day when I look at the people around me, trying to take home a monthly salary, by playing company politics and protecting themselves.
Why did you shut down?
Why did you shut down?
Had to have a heart valve replaced, and they had to do a bunch of other stuff first. Never had any serious problems in 59 years, other than getting busted up a few times. Guess I'm making up for it now, but I'm fine, just dragging my feet a litle going back to work because of these other opportunities. I'm thinking I might want to take some time out to make some real money, and then go back to woodworking on my own terms, not the market's.
As a side note to anyone who is facing heart surgery: It isn't as big a deal as everyone seems to make out. It has its risk, and it takes a while before you're doing pushups again, but I was home in four days after surgery, and the overall experience was about a 7 on a discomfort scale of 10. Never even needed any pain meds. Amazing!
MIchael R
Hi Drew,
I have followed the discussion and the responses you have received have ranged from not likely to "if you're lucky." That is not too encouraging.
I read your post really carefully and it seems you have only built half dozen original pieces which leads me to assume you have never sold any of your pieces. I think that answering this question as a hypothetical will not be very helpful for you. As others have said you should try it out on the side and see if there is a market for your work. If there is then you can chuck the day job and if there is not then at least you have a great hobby, maybe have collected a few more tools and learned more about business and about your own abilities, talents, skillls, etc. I wish I took the same apporach before trying to go to open my own business in an unrelated profession. Good luck, Tom
Oh jeez....I thought you were talking about someone like US. I don't imagine Sam feels any pressure whatsoever!
If a putz like me had that much stuff backlogged people would be barking at me every day to hurry up.
Nevermind......
Put it this way... Is there a career in being a gigolo? Sure - if you're young, good-looking, and hung well. In other words, do you have what it takes?
If you want to make custom stand-alone furniture for a living you have to be an outstanding craftsman with a thorough knowledge of furniture styles and history. It would help a lot to be fluent in several styles (able to build something beyond Shaker and Arts and Crafts). You need to meet people well and present a polished, professional appearance or, alternatively, go the whole nine yards with the 'artist' look. However, be who you are. If you tend to the artsy side, then embrace it. I meet clients wearing, at minimum, a sport coat and tie but usually a suit. I'm old school, but it works for me.
Poor people don't commission custom furniture. You need to be comfortable with a well-heeled clientele and not mind working with very demanding people. You have the be able to give them the full 'treatment' but really be able to deliver the goods (kind of like a gigolo, no?). You have to be able to price your work aggressively. When you think you've arrived at a price, add another 25 percent or so and then you might be close to charging what it takes to make a profit. Further, you have to walk with enough of a swagger that your potential clients rarely bicker with you about price. If you get into a pissing match about the cost of a commission, know that there is at minimum a 99.9999% chance you're dealing with a broke-dick and move on to the next deal.
You need a decent sized metropolitan area from which to draw your clients (or set up shop in Aspen). Barring that, you need a national reputation. Ultimately, you'll want both.
I can't remember the last time I built a piece for a home that was worth a dime less than $600,000 (and that's on the low-end). I routinely look up addresses with our county register to check assessed property values for people who've contacted me. I always give the courtesy of the initial meeting, but I like to know when I can, or shouldn't, get my hopes up.
Let me repeat - POOR PEOPLE DO NOT COMMISSION CUSTOM FURNITURE. Let me add - VERY FEW MIDDLE CLASS AND UPPER MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES COMMISSION CUSTOM FURNITURE. You might get a deal or two here or there, but not enough to make an entire career.
What I'm saying applies to a business selling custom furniture not bulk plywood goods. That's another can a worms and the guys over at Breaktime can probably help you more if that's the area you're interested in.
Edited 3/24/2005 3:03 pm ET by cstan
"Sure - if you're young, good-looking, and hung well."
That's been my secret.
Charles,
Throw in a bit more diplomacy and don't look down upon the unprivileged, (those who are poor and not well hung :-)). When people know what you stand for in life and there is mutual respect, they would want your heirlooms, as it represents a part of you, not only wood.
Give it a try and I'm sure your order book will grow.
Jelly, as crass as it may sound poor people simply are not commissioning furniture where I live.
It would be irresponsible for me to pursue business that simply does not exist. I have my own family to provide for.
And from my post above....
I always give the courtesy of the initial meeting, but I like to know when I can, or shouldn't, get my hopes up.
I've never failed to meet with somebody who has expressed interest in my work.
Edited 3/25/2005 9:32 am ET by cstan
Is there a career in woodworking?
Well, if ya don't mind going broke.. there is..
Sorry.. I had to...
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