A couple of months ago I saw an ad in Fine Woodworking about “Taking Your Woodworking Business to the Next Level” or something like that. I’ve been thinking about going pro so I bit and called the 800 number. A week or so later I got a packet of information from a guy named Ray Sutton who claimed to have run a cabinet shop in Southern Calif. from ’85 to ’99. His program, “The Woodworker’s Ultimate Business-Building System!” is marketed by Ridge Publishing Group, Inc., in Wichita, KS.
The system appears to be a marketing plan for people in the woodworking business. It’s about $800 to $1,000 depending on which package you get. I filed it away until I get closer to making a decision. Then today I get a call from a kid (he sounded remarkably like my 24-year-old son) named Chris who was giving me a high-pressure sales pitch on a program with mentoring that cost $2,000. He wanted my credit card number and a “commitment” right then.
I’m not opposed to shelling out some money for knowledge and I do need the help, but I’m having trouble figuring out just what it is that they are selling. I’d like to talk to others who have done the program to see if they feel it was money well spent.
Anyone out there who knows about this guy or his program? I realize that it is proprietary information, I just want to know if it is worth the money. I’m especially interested and motivated to start my own business because I got laid off last Wednesday. I don’t want to work for “The Man” anymore.
Brandon Ford, Lincoln City, Ore.
Replies
Well I've not heard of this guy, but most, if not all, promises of fame & fortune (if you just by my program, book, tape, video, etc.) are empty. IMHO, save your money (most of it anyway) and start with something like Working at Woodworking by Jim Tolpin. It's a good primer for an individual looking at beginning a cabinet shop (or any shop for that matter), and does NOT paint an unrealistic picture of the biz. I highly recommend it.
B: contact the Better Business Bureau about them.
I suggest going through S.C.O.R.E., they even have on-line counseling and are free. There are many reasonably priced educational opportunities at community colleges as well as endless websites. Pick up the starting your own business book for dummies. Don't give anyone your credit card info for an over the phone sales pitch, ever!
Your entire post just screams ripoff.
Most of these deals you get very little for your money.
Spend a small fraction of that $2000 in the bookstore. Maybe take a small buisiness management class or two.
Since you're out of work, you may try to get hired at a local woodworking shop. This would give you some insights into the market in your area. Give you a first hand look at how it works.
Someone starts pressuring you to buy something NOW and it's time to walk.
At least look over what they sent you very carefully. Ask for some former clients you can contact for references. Get a list of what you get for the money. It's liable to be a binder full of papers and a video tape or two (approx. $100 value). Then check out the BBB for complaints they may have recieved. You'll have to check out the one where they're located, some BBB's are on the internet.
A generic marketing plan probably isn't worth the cost of the paper it's printed on.
Best of luck.
Bill
Save your money. The ad reeks of scam. You should have a local Small Business Administration near by. There's lot of free help available if you look for it.
BFORD
Ditto everyone else's post. If you were high-pressured for a credit card, you are looking at a RIP-OFF!
You'll learn more from a community college program or even a book. If you really want some experience, beg Sgain Dubh to let you work for free for a month. You would never regret that experience.
Sorry about being laid off. Don't panic and things will work out.
Best of Luck...
sarge..jt
Lincoln City -- you're west of me by about 50 miles.
Save your money and instead invest it in marketing materials. As an estimate, you are probably going to have to spend somewhere around 35% of what you seek to earn your first year in marketing. Yes that much!! and it well depend on what you make and how you expect to sell it. It could be more; it could be less, but 35% is at least a realistic starting point.
The coast offers a distinctive market and certainly there are many existing outlets between Astoria and Brookings. Portland offers opportunity as well but in all cases, the competition is fierce. Unless you have an unique and distinctive product/product-line, you will have difficulty getting into the various galleries and shops and most likely that will be on a consignment basis. As such, you will have to invest a lot in labor and materials and may not see much income for several/many months if you go that route.
Out of area opportunities is another entire matter and requires a completely different approach.
If you want to talk specifics, send me an e-mail. I used to provide support when I was at OSU Forest Products Department.
Somewhere near Sublimity.
Scam the scammer. Run your own ad stating that you used to run a telemarking/small business mgmt 'business' for 14 years and you now have a sure -fire program to teach others to take their $2000 scams to the next level for only $3,500 if you act now.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
If you want to spend money on marketing advice (which in and of itself, is not a bad idea at all) you should spend on someone in your local area who knows the communities you want to sell in and is also knowledgeable about the advertising options available and their relative costs and returns on dollars spent!
Once you decide what you want to build and sell, you can share that specific information with people on this and other WWing boards and get plenty of advice that's backed by experience in the field. For instance, if you want to design, build and sell one-of-a-kind high-end pieces, then galleries, a web-site and networking with designers in your area are 3 elements of a marketing plan that will give you the kind of exposure you'll need to expand your business. If you want to build cabinets and such, a slightly different approach is in order.
Between advice you would get from this forum and some input from a marketing consultant in your geographical area, you can get the information and guidance you need, I'm betting for far less than $2000.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is......
Never ....*NEVER* give your credit card number to anyone over the phone whose repute is in any question or the firm is unknown.
In addition to the 35% of marketing expense, I suggest you put aside enough money to live on for at least six months without any income. When the cash flow begins, as I'm sure it will, be tough with yourself and realize you need to divide everything you make into three piles:
Pile 1 is for taxes. Even self employed people have to pay taxes. You need, or probably should have a business license. This incurrs various local city, state taxes. Fact of life. You'll need to fund your FICA (regrettably it's refered to as "self employment tax" by the IRS!). In my case with a consulting business I have to file quarterly taxes, pay city of Bellevue B&O (business & occupation) tax and a state tax as well.
Pile 2 is a fund for upgrading your equipment, little business expenses like sharpening saw blades, new blades, finish material, sand paper .... the list goes on. But just what little amaturish woodworking I do I find I have quite a bit of 'consumable' expenses. Sure you'll probably want to charge this against the project as well but the proceeds from the sale should be earmarked to replace those consumables you 'consumed' in its creation. Perhaps a third of a woodworker's income is overkill but in my business, which involves computer software and hardware, plotter paper, printer cartridges and the like, it goes pretty fast.
The last pile is what you live on.
This has been my approach since becoming self employed over six years ago. No, it's not in the woodworking field but the concept is valid no matter what discipline, art or craft one pursues. So far I've been able to keep my equipment and software up to date, have a good inventory of supplies, never have to dig into my 'living pile' for taxes and haven't gone (too) hungry in all that time.
Good luck.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
I am very skeptical and cannot caution you strongly enough about this. Usually, with these types of "opportunities," about the only thing they could offer that would be worth your investment is if they told you to set up a strategy that would get other people to send you a thousand dollars or two. And I've just told you the secret for nothing.
Thanks everyone! As I was reading them I could hear myself saying the same thing.
I already had the Jim Toplin book ordered. The other suggestions I will act upon as well. There are some good galleries here on the Ore. Coast that sell furniture. I have some ideas for some pieces that would be different from the work they carry now and be more useful as well.
I'm working out of my garage and keeping my overhead low. I also have some a stockpile of some wonderful wood that should keep me going for a while.
Thanks again for your advise and good wishes.
Brandon
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