A friend of mine let me have the tree he was taking down from his back yard. The tree service didn’t know what species it was but was fairly sure it was a nut tree. I’ve attached several pictures, including the heartwood, sapwood, bark, etc. The “Split” is a 2 1/2 – 3″ thick piece I dropped from about 4′ onto another piece. Would walnut do that?
Thanks in advances for your guesses,
Mitch
“I’m always humbled by how much I DON’T know…”
Replies
It appears to be, a picture of the leaves would confirm it for me.
It might also be butternut they both look similar when freshly cut. but Black walnut has a little darker heartwood than butternut and that appears to be dark enough..
I am going to take a guess but I dont think it is walnut.
My guess is hickory.
Not hickory!
hickory has a cream colored wood doesn't have that dark heart wood doesn't have that bark and doesn't have the distinct differance between the early wood and heart wood.. It's eaither Black walnut of Butternut.
If the leaves come out somewhat like ash pairs on opposite sides of a twiglet then it's Black walnut if they are more like maple or oak then it's butternut..
Looks like walnut to me - hickories I've seen have different, quite distinctive bark. The walnut I cut down several years ago sure looked like that in section.
Leaf pics would definitely settle it, I think.
Jason
Edited 10/18/2005 10:28 pm ET by JasonQ
Mitch,
I looked at all of your pictures, and checked your profile for your location. The bark, and inner (orange color) bark is a dead ringer for Sassafras. The golden color of the innerwood looks like the correct color for Sassafras. While looking at the picture of the "split" if it was walnut it should have turned dark brown when the air hit it. Walnut resembles the color of the pictures when first cut (more greenish/than golden) but it should have turned the expected dark brown within a few minutes. Another way of checking is taking a fresh piece, do a little slicing on it and see if the odor it puts off has a candy smell. Lastly, you can take a thin crosscut piece and hold it to a light and you should see some holes running through it, like you would with a piece of oak.
Hope this helps. BTW if it is Sassafras, you can make some very lovely pieces of furniture from it. I do all the time. It was either on this forum or Wood Mag that a few months ago some folks started a post on making sassafras furniture (worth checking it out). If your interested in seeing what furniture looks like made from this stuff send email and I'll show you a Chimney cabinet I made out of it...
Robert
Robert,
Thanks for the info on sassafras. The bark's not much different, and I'm glad to hear that if it is sassafras, I can still make quality furniture from it.Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Too bad we don't have Joe around to answer this one. My guess is that if it is walnut then it's an English walnut. We have a lot of English grafts on black walnut around here and those do split like that. Color looks right too.
Your close up picture seems to show a distinctly ring-porous structure, which rules out walnut which is a semi-ring-porous wood. As well, the rays, visible on the picture, would not be visible on walnut. Identifying wood via pictures is pretty "iffy". I suggest getting a clean slice on the end grain, then flipping to chapter 10 in Bruce Hoadley's book "Identifying Wood". You may not figure out what wood it is for sure, but you can probably rule out a whole lot of them.
Herm,
I may have to take a slice and view it. It's really a PITA to boil the stuff 'til it floats to the top to get a good specimen - but probably worth it at this point. Thanks,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Definetely doesnt look like Black walnut, it is to gray. Most English walnut has more sap wood than that but is closer to that color. If I could smell it I would tell you for sure. Green walnut has a very distinct smell. Either way my guess from the available pics is that it is not walnut. Shane
Herm,
One other thought. How can you tell it's ring-porous? The distinctive rings, by themselves, don't dictate that a wood is ring-porous, right?Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
The distinctive rings that I could see on the picture do indeed indicate ring-porous. If it was semi-ring-porous, the earlywood pores would be relatively large but would continue on into the latewoodand diminish gradually. The earlywood pores in ring-porous wood are large, then switch dramatically into small pores in the latewood material (as in oak).
You're right, Herm. In fact, the slices I took were from latewood samples, and the pores were both large and uniform. I have to admit, it's hard to tell by eye what's ring-porous and semi, but your observation's on the money. Thanks.Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
I'm coming in here late but the pictures just jumped out and yelled OAK at me. The rays are so promement in the picture showing heart wood, sap wood, and bark, few other woods have such promenent rays. However, if the wood smells like sassafras, all the oak in the world can't fake that. Is the stump near by? Stick a shovel into the ground and scrape some bark off the root. If the roots are still fresh the perfume of sasafrole will fill the air around you. You won't even have to bend over and pick up a piece. As far as smelling like root beer, the FDA took that carcinogen (sasafrole) out of our root beer way back in the early 60s and root beer hasn't tasted as good since.
BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in South'n Murlyn'
If you have a twig with buds it will be easier to identify.
J.P.
Does it have a distinctive smell?
To me, there is no wood that has a better aroma then walnut.
Mike
I'm sticking with Sassafras. I went up in my field this morning to look at my stack of Sassafras. I found a board that had some bark on it. Same color bark, texture the same as yours, as well as the familiar orange/reddish inner bark (the inner bark reminds me a little of a pumpkin's texture and color).
Also when I had my logs milled the color of the inner wood (my logs still contained a lot of sap) matched the color of yours - golden brown. My lumber's grain was the same as yours in the picture. Have you tried the sniff test on this wood yet? As I stated in my first post if it gives off a candyish sweet smell then it would be Sassafras.
Robert
OK, I'm taking an educated SWAG here - based on cross-, tangential and radial sections under the microscope @ 40X, I think this is walnut - either black or English. I base this on the following observations:
Fairly abundant tyloses (fillings in the pores);
Semi-Ring Porous
Crystals visible in some areas
Fine rays, not visible with lens
"Gashlike pits" aka reticulate thickenings in the latewood vessels
All of THAT said, it could still be butternut, and, given that it does have something of an odor that possibly could be called sweet, it's possible that it could be sassafrass - but then why the tyloses?
I ruled out hickory because it is distinctly ring-porous.
I don't know. Let's hope it makes some nice furniture.Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Mitch,
It seems like you have your heart set on some type of Walnut, B U T I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. I don't want to seem to come off as a know-it-all, but I'm about 99.9 percent sure it's Sassafras. Especially when you confirmed it had a "sweet" smell. I've been building furniture with it for years and using it as a secondary wood on some furniture. It looks almost like oak when its stained, only about 1/2 the weight though.
Still, I'm assuming your a woodworker so I know you'll put it to good use. That candy smell will almost become overpowering (when dried) later on when you use it...
Robert
From your pictures it does look like sassafras. Cut into the bark and you should smell root beer....Dale
Well, here's a pic of Sassafras, for sure. Does have that distinctive smell. Sassafras Tea was made by boiling the roots. Drinking two cups is kinda like taking ExLax.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Mike I'll remember that next time I eat too much cheese, : " >.......Dale
Hey Dale -
Take a look at the endgrain on that Sassafras pic I provided. Question - If a board is going to cup, why does it tend to cup away from the center of the tree as this board has? It seems to me that the mechanics involved would make it cup toward the center. I.e. - the expansion would be greater farthermost from the center. With this board, is it because of the checking that is present? (check lines running outward from the center perpendicular to the growth rings)
Duh, never mind, I'm having brain farts this morning. When drying it's undergoing contraction not expansion! And, the contraction is greater the further away you get from the center of the tree. The checking is actually relieving stresses during drying which tends to keep bowing to a minimum. That's why furry grained wood with interlocking fibers tends to cup more and check less (when the boards are unrestrained). During drying the growth rings are trying to straighten out.
That also explains why drying a stack of wood to fast causes checking in flat sawn boards. The board is held flat in the stack and cannot cup, so it does the only thing it can do. It trys to rip itself apart.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Robert,
"It seems like you have your heart set on some type of Walnut, B U T I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. I don't want to seem to come off as a know-it-all, but I'm about 99.9 percent sure it's Sassafras."
I guess you're right. But as you said and have shown, you can build some pretty nice stuff w/ Sassafrass. I guess the bottom line is, I haven't heard anyone say that it isn't material for making quality furniture, whatever the species.
Thanks a LOT for your help and advice.Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
as well as the familiar orange/reddish inner bark
The inner bark caught my eye too. I don't know that I've ever even seen a Sassafrass tree, what with me living in the northwest and all. But, I've seen a fair amount of Walnut, both Black and English, and that orangish/reddish inner bark doesn't seem right to me either. I have never seen inner bark that color on Walnut. Perhaps Claro Walnut might since it's a pretty warm colored Walnut. I dunno... But, I would bet against it being Black or English Walnut.
Agreed on the smell test too. I don't know how I'd begin to describe the smell of fresh Walnut to someone who hasn't ever smelled it before. But, it sure is a very distinct smell. Nothing that I've ever been exposed to in my 41+ years smells like fresh Walnut except Walnut.
I don't think it's walnut, are you guys sure it's not locust?
Notice in Mitch's closeup that there seem to be rays running perpindicular to the growth rings. My Sassafras sample does not exhibit that characteristic. Black Walnut doesn't seem to exhibit that characteristic either.
I'm wondering if it might be some species of Oak??
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Here's a picture of some cutoff pieces from some Sassafras slabs. Comparing them to Mitch's pics you can see the distinct orange color (inner bark). Notice how deep the outer bark on his pictures and mine are. The heartwood on my sample is several months old but still resembles that "golden brown look". Also the sapwood on my sample has started to turn black (been left out in the elements); when it was cut it was creamy white like Mitch's sample.
BTW the bench that the pieces are displayed on is made outof sassafras stained with water based natural antique cherry.
Robert
Here's a couple more pictures...tried to add them to my previous post, but couldn't get there from here.
Robert
Robert, can you take a close up pic of the endgrain? I think that will tell more.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
If your going to the trouble to take a macro pic please have a clean surface of the wood, ie razor blade cut would be nice....Have you smelled the inner bark yet?
Mike you got the gust of the reasoning, at least in my way of thinking. Most cupping as in 'U' , seems to happen in lumber cut from small diameter trees, ie 10" or less. Obviously, you can make a board cut by wetting one side as in laying a board down in the grass.
Dale
is this better?
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Thanks Mike,
But I meant that post to go to the orginal poster of this thread. Seems that he's not wanting to answer or address any of my question to the species ID that he wanted to know about.
Come and see me this winter......Dale
Hi Dale,
Believe me, I had no intention of blowing you off at all. I think with all the posts I missed some responses, like yours. Sorry.
Yes, the wood smells sweet - I'm not sure if it's like root beer, but it would seem like sweet odor would rule out walnut.
I took some small slices with a razor blade to put under the microscope. Do you want to see a slightly larger sample like that, or would a cross-section pulled from the end suffice?
Again, my bad on the lack of response. I truly appreciate your input and was digesting it even though I didn't respond. Let me know about the slice.
Best regards,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
I looked at your picture and I thought I saw 4-5 "faint" rays running perpendicular to the grain. I'll try to get a closeup tomorrow of my Sassafras. With my pictures I was trying show the similarity of Mitch's logs with that of mine as to the color of the inner bark, depth/characteristic of the outer bark and the color of inner wood.
A few years ago I was given one of the largest Sassafras trees I ever seen. The wind had blew it down. There was another standing nearby and I was able to talk the owner in letting me harvest it as well. The standing tree was the straightest, it yielded 4 10' logs, with a diameter of (best I remember) over 30". Some boards where 15" wide, no knots. I'm still using this lumber. I sold about 200' feet to my brother to build some furniture with, and it turned out that some of the boards had "beautiful" tiger striping in them. Unfortunately, only a few of the boards had that striping and apparently he got it all because I haven't seen any more of it since. This same spot of woods has a grove of large Sass trees, and one of them is the grandaddy of them all-could very well be one of the largest sass trees in the state. I'm keeping an eye on it as it is starting to decay and was hit by lightning at one time. I may mosey over there in a few days and take a photo to post on this site...
This summer I had some sass sawmilled. We quartersawn one of the better logs, to my dismay no rays or flakes were exposed, and I'm doubtful sass would ever have anything like what white oak would produce. Happily though it does resemble flatsawn red oak.
It would be nice to see more woodworkers using this wood. Soft hardwood that's easy to machine, stains and finishes well, and best of all it is relatively cheap. A lot of the sawmills around here consider it a little better than pallet material...Sorry went a little long!
Robert
I had a Sassafras tree on my place that was about 18" in diameter. Took it down and sectioned it up with my chain saw. I actually sold some handles and knobs that I made from it. Rest is still out in my shed. Got several more of them scattered around the place.
One thing I'd like to get into is some of the Kentucky Coffee Bean trees I have. I got a couple that are about 2' in diam and must be 100' tall. First branch is like up at 60'.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
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