I’m going to make no comment here. I only offer this link:
-Chuck
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Replies
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
LEE
Does it have oars?
Didn't he end up getting THREE planes for that price?
This is interesting!He did get three planes -- guess he figured he'd keep two and sell the original, auctioned plane. I think it's a bit snakey, but it's his right; if this gets back to Jim he'll likely feel somewhat disappointed. The funny thing is that the seller placed the starting price at what HE payed for the plane at auction, and there was only one other bidder who went nearly as high as him. I think that it's a poor auction strategy, but what he added to the auction is more backing to the idea that Krenov _used_ the plane. He is assuming that the number of people willing to pay that much has multiplied since the last auction. For collectors, there might be something to the fact that this is the very first that Krenov decided to sell (he has sold others since then, several posted on Woodnet, for $250 each).Knowing that I can get one directly from Krenov for $250, with a handwritten letter addressed to my name, even if I had the dough, I wouldn't pay $1200+. We'll see if anyone takes the bait. I think that it was a bad idea to have a high starting bid as opposed to a reserve price.My take: let's watch and see. It's an opportunity to observe perceived aesthetic and spiritual(?) value blowing economics out of the water OR perhaps lightning does not strike the same place twice???-Andy
He's got the plane starting out what he paid PLUS a reserve... who knows what his reserve is... He might as well have a Buy It Now price of $5000....
The seller is overlooking a major change in the situation since he bought the plane in the original auction. Jim Krenov is now selling his planes directly for $250 -- a set price that did not exist at the time of the first auction. This fact is, however, known only to a limited number of people. On JK's website, it says not to inquire until further notice; however, I know of a number of people who have done so and have already had their planes delivered (with Hock blades, better than the blade in the auction plane, and with more interesting wood).
So, it wouldn't suprise me if this guy doesn't achieve the high price he hopes for. By now, the original guy who bid him up might have learned that he can get one of these planes for $1000 less.
-Andy
He did get three planes -- guess he figured he'd keep two and sell the original, auctioned plane. I think it's a bit snakey, but it's his right;
I agree, if in fact, he actually got the additional two planes; or was this just an attempt to diffuse some of the discussion taking place at the time? If he didn't get the additional planes, JK has really cut the pins out from under him by asking only $250 for one.
Personally, I'm inclined to believe he did get them and that was Mr. Krenov's attempt at putting the lot of them more in line with what even he felt they were worth. After all, JK often said that you shouldn't get emotionally attached to your tools and he would give his planes away as gifts. Even my favorite, the little cocobolo polishing plane.
Regards,
-Chuck
Chuck,
I've been in touch with the family, and he really did send 3 planes -- I'd have to be a really cynical individual to believe otherwise.There is also an eBay auction of a Krenov cabinet:
http://cgi.ebay.com/James-Krenov-original-cabinet-on-stand_W0QQitemZ120082055305QQihZ002QQcategoryZ12515QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemThe starting bid is $15000. Needless to say, JK did not charge that much for his cabinets.
It's a sore subject; the only thing I feel bad about is that JK apparently never made enough money from his work to be able to live comfortably after his health declined.
-Andy
Andy,
Your right, if the family confirmed it then I certainly have no more doubts.
So as I see it there are two ways to look at this auction:
The seller either feels that this plane is worth the full $1200+ because that is what he was bidding on and that is what he won. The other two have no part in it. Like you said, that's his right.
Or that he is operating under the assumption that nobody knows that JK felt he overpaid and sent him two additional planes to make up for it (man, that has to be an ebay first). In which case he should be starting the bidding at around $400.
A little snakey.
It'll be interesting to see how it ends up.
You can tell it is too cold to be out in the workshop....I have time to waste on something like this:-)
-Chuck
Chuck,This is a rare moment when it's warmer in VT than in PA -- we're up at a balmy 18 degrees! However, whatever you're getting, we'll get it soon.It probably was an eBay first (seller sending 3x the item purchased), but it was the first and only time that JK will ever sell on eBay --- and in my estimation, he is as unique as a person can be.I'm almost done building my first Krenov-style jointer, around 19" long, in hophornbeam. I'll post pics when I'm done. Anyone who wants it for $1200 is welcome to it. ;)
-Andy
Edited 2/6/2007 7:09 pm ET by VTAndy
Andy
The eBayer is offering free shipping. Are you? :) Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Hi Tom,Sure, what the heck, I'll throw in the shipping to any state but Florida. I will arbitrarily charge $2.50 for shipping to Florida. And anyone buying the plane from Germany can have it for $1100, since I noticed that the Germans sell Festools for less in the US than in Germany; just my way of saying "thanks."
Andy
We are having unusual warm weather in TX right now. It was 68 degrees today.
Yep, a nice change from the 45 degrees and rain we've had so much of. Nice to see the sun. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Man, can you guys send some heat up here? It's -8 F and dropping! I'm not sure where VTAndy is, but I'll take some heat from him too, :-).
That's sick, we've had STUPID COLD for way too long!............. Believe it or not, it's actually warmer than it was last week -30 F one morning!
I wish it was 18 F here! It would feal like a heat wave!
Shivvering,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Believe it or not, 18F actually does feel "warm" to me now. Once winter is in full swing, it just doesn't feel cold to me until it is below 5F and windy.
Sure, I'll send you a few degrees. Looks like we'll be getting 18F tomorrow, too, but near 0 at night.
-Andy
Bob, no joy on Long Island, NY either. 14 this AM -7 in the breeze. I can't get to TN fast enough . At least there it will be nice shortly after Paddy's day. Pat
That's crazy!!!!! -8 is not for me. I will stick with my 68 degrees, and not a cloud in the sky. We have had absolutely gorgeous wether for the last three days.
It was something like -10 in SWPa this morning and a high around +9. Balmy 20 degrees F. tomorrow.
Can't complain though. We had a great Nov, Dec, and 1st half of Jan. and P. Phil says there will be an early Spring.
Yahoo!
I ordered a plane from JK's website, it arrived here in Canada very quickly, no request for extra money to cover the international shipping. $250. It's a gem, obviously handmade, lots of character, a real pleasure to use. Similar to the one for sale. I'm happy to help JK after I have learned so much from his many books and articles. My only regret is that I sharpened the blade after some use, and now it does not work as well as it did before! Well at least now I know my sharpening technique needs practice - I am still learning from JK.
Daninvan,
Are you one of the guys who was gloating on woodnet.com? Well if you are or you aren't, how about some pictures please!
You know it didn't really happen until we see pictures:)
I remember reading that JK liked to hollow grind his irons. He claimed he spent very little time on sharpening.
-Chuck
Here is a pic. Not sure what the wood species is, but it is quite heavy. The blade is hollow ground.It was not me who was gloating over on woodnet, must have been someone else.Dan
Dan,
You got a better blade than the one in the current auction.
Use it in good health!
-Andy
Dan,
OMG That is too kool. And the best part is that you are using it! It's not sitting on a shelf, you're making shavings with it. That's just what JK would expect you to do. I'll bet if you sent that iron back to him, James would sharpen it for you :-)
All you guys who have been buying Krenov planes should get together in one thread somewhere. You know, one massive gloat.
Where in SW PA? Near Pittsburgh? I am at Morgantown, so have about the same weather.
I'm 30 miles east of Pittsburgh, in Greensburg. We haunt the Morgantown area now and then. I've been to a couple of football games at WVU and we have a niece who lives in the area.
Andy,
The wife had her "Card Party" gang over last night so I spent the evening eating chili and cornbread, and watching hockey with the dog. I took advantage of the downtime to go through the piggy bank and I'm a little short of the $1200....well, I'm a lot short. But I am looking forward to seeing the pictures. I have no idea what Hophornbeam is (some mutant plant that only grows in the frozen tundra of Vermont?) but it sounds intriguing.
-Chuck
P.S.
The spell checker has no idea what Hophornbeam is either
Chuck,There are several species of hornbeam that grow in the U.S., and hophornbeam is one of them. They are all in the same family as birch, and are undergrowth trees, very slow-growing and hence, very hard. Hornbeam is often very clear, used by Lie-Nielsen for their chisel handles. (Several euro chisel builders use hornbeam of different variety for their handles.) Hophornbeam has darker heartwood giving a somewhat more interesting appearance.This wood often ends up in woodstoves in these parts. My friend got it from a cabinetmaker who had a stock of hornbeam table and chair leg blanks, perfect for making planes and other handtools. Some of the pieces had really neat figure in the heartwood.FYI:
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/ostrya/virginiana.htmIn Vermont, there are two species of hornbeam that are called "ironwood" locally -- but there are over 80 species of wood that are known somewhere or other as ironwood, so I think that "hornbeam" and "hophornbeam" are better common names to use. If I was trying to get some around here, however, I'd ask for ironwood.
-Andy
Very good, Andy.
Thanks for the education. I have heard of hornbeam, as you mentioned, mostly in regard to tool handles and such. The hophornbeam was new to me, and I have seen many references to ironwood, but had no idea they were one and the same.
It's a good day; I learned something.
What's it like to work with?
-Chuck
Hi Chuck,
It's interesting to work with, not at all what I expected.
We actually used a friend's machine tools to square up the blanks, resaw the cheeks, etc. To me, most woods have very distinctive aromas (or stenches, depending ont he wood) when they are machined --- but I smelled nothing from the hophornbeam.
I used rasps to shape the round tenons on the crosspiece that holds the wedge down, and also rasped the wedge shape and the body of the plane --- very easy.
We used a scraper plane to fine tune the insides of the resawn cheeks. Finally, I did some work on the crosspiece with a low-angle block plane.
No problems, anywhere. I expected crazy tear out. It is a very hard wood, but not difficult to work with. I'm not sure that I'd want to flatten a large panel of it, but it is not available in large boards.
Tomorrow afternoon, I'll be finishing the fine-tuning of the plane and will finally get to see how it handles. I'm very much looking forward to it.
-Andy
Edited 2/8/2007 6:59 am ET by VTAndy
Andy,
It's interesting to see how emotion can be discerned from the written word. You are obviously have an awful lot fun, on some cold winter days, building that hophornbeam hand plane.
We're looking forward to seeing it.
-Chuck
Phillip,
Does it have oars?
I contacted the seller directly, and while the plane does not come with oars, I was assured it will include 2 nice small life preservers, pic attached (paper clip for reference)
Cheers,
Lee
Lee, while the photography is excellent, the grain of the background precise, the life preservers distinct, I wouldn't give you 10 cents for that paper clip as it is clear that it has LOST all of it's parallelism on the longer sides. It must be tough trying to sell less than quality goods. All the best in your future endevors, Paddy
Edited 2/6/2007 9:57 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT
Paddy,
You're absolutely right about the parallelism on the clip. But I will have you know, that is not just any paper clip. It was Hand Made By The Man Himself (no, not God, James Krenov). I was the lucky winning Ebay bidder. I got it for a measly $476.43 Mr. Krenov was generous enough to send an additional paperclip, as he felt guilty that I spent so much on the one in the auction.
All the best,
Lee
I am in no way disrespecting Krenov but have these people who bid even looked at the plane? I mean really it's got rasp marks all over it and the sides are not even symetrical. I'm sure it's a good plane and I know it was made by master hands but I like a little form with my function. Just my two cents.
-Ryan C.
Hello Ryan,
Sorry for the late reply but the wife has her "card party" gang over so I've been relegated to the family room for the evening. I refer to "card party" in quotes because there isn't a deck of cards to be found. It should be called a "Let's eat, drink lots of coffee, and gab all evening party" :-)
Ryan, the utilitarian characteristic of Krenov's tools is something I, and others, find appealing. I must admit that the one on ebay is rough even by Krenov standards. I wish he had chosen a better one to auction.
Many people have built Krenov style hand planes, but I'll bet I'm one of the few who has tried to actually build a copy of a Krenov plane. The cocobolo smoother he showed in his book "A Cabinetmaker's Notebook" always had a place in my heart. You can see it in the Planemaker's Gallery at handplanecentral.com. There in the middle of all those beautiful dovetailed planes is my clunky Krenov smoother :-)
How's your infill coming?
-Chuck
lightning does not indeed strike twice..... no one bid on it
Ebay is an odd cookie some times.
Prices are hard to predict, I was looking for a Stanley 45 a few years back and they were going for huge $$$. Next time I look there were three that went for around $100. Some of the used Lie Nielsen planes going for close to the price of new planes. I once saw some well used video's I was looking for selling for more than the new videos!
I think eventualy people become wise to the prices, and they drop. Quality items will always demand a premium.
Buster
That's not surprising. This guy needs a better strategy, like putting all three planes up for auction at that price.
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