but I’m proud enough to show it off. Here’s some pics
http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/Ryan-Cathey/Type%2011/
-Ryan C.
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Replies
Ryan,
What are we seeing? A plane, I know. But, what have you done?
Thanks,
Alan
That's why I asked earlier for who sold me the plane. Yeah it looks good (IMHO) but nobody knows how bad it looked in the first place. I repainted it, shined up all the hardware, lapped the sides and sole, and shined up the lever cap and chipbreaker.
I must have missed something. I don't see any earlier posts.
The one entitled "Who sold me this plane". I guess it's another thread rather than another post. Sorry about the confusion.
Here you go Planesaw. The before pictures you requested. http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/Ryan-Cathey/Before/
Well, yes, that's a mighty clean plane. I understand that it was quite unkempt when it first came into your possession.
Exactly what skill is on display here?
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/11/2007 2:54 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
A purist I see lol. You're actually the only one to say something like that (out of the four threads at four different forums). Keep in mind though I wouldn't have done something this exstensive if it wasn't in the shape it was.
Please read this disclaimer: I spoke what I feel is right.
-Ryan C.
You posted this in four forums? Wow. I'm not a purist at all. I think tools that touch wood should be clean. I'd Naval Jelly the hell out of one if it needed it. Tool patina is a joke. A well maintained cast iron tool in continuous use would not develop patina except perhaps for the tote.You have a clean plane ready for work and this is a good thing. On the other hand your post is kind of like an architect taking a picture of a freshly sharpened No. 2 pencil and saying "gee, look at this." Tools need context in the form of works completed with them, especially mass produced tools made in the hundreds of thousands if not millions.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/11/2007 4:18 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
hey ........... give the guy a break......... <G> He's probably got 3 days of sweat and toil invested in cleaning up that plane.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
You have no idea lol.
So you're saying it was pointless of me to do this unless I show work done with it?
What would you tell me about an architect with a cup full of sharpened pencils and a supply of vellum on his drafting table?
You've merely started one step behind, but caught up through a little work, somebody who picked up the phone and ordered a plane. You both now have handplanes suitable for use. I doubt if your ability to wield sandpaper, a bench grinder, and a can of WD-40 was ever in doubt.
Just exactly what kind of feedback did you want- congratulations on another lost weekend not working wood?
I scrubbed my BBQ grill last week. It's nice and shiny. Shall I post a picture of it? Or would it be better if I told you my routine for cooking the best lamb chops east of the Mississippi?
Capece?
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/12/2007 4:13 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Hold on a second.......yeah that's right, this is posted in the hand tools forum if I wanted something woodworking posted I would've put it somewhere else. I think there's BBQ or grilling or cooking forum around here somewhere. They'd probably be happy to see your grill. I'd like to see some of the planes you've restored. My next plane is a Sargent, I'll tell ya what I'll put "Sargent Rehab" as the title so you'll know what it is and you can just be on your merry little way.
-Ryan C.
Edited 6/12/2007 10:14 am ET by RyanC
Have fun Ryan.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Ryan,
Nice work on restoring that plane. I know it takes time to make it look that nice. Post your pictures of the next one you restore and I will check it out. Yes, I know all about the slippery slope, I am continuing down it.
The Poster....Give it a rest, people like you are ruining this forum. If you don't like the post, well don't open the damn thing. To actually open the post and then complain about it? You have way too much time on your hands. If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything. Although I would imagine you would not comment like that in person.
"...people like you are ruining this forum." I stopped by this thread when I saw how incredibly large is had become, and have only read to here so far. Please, Mr. Woodman, don't assign him such an incredbile amount of power, LOL! He stands almost completely alone, and has no such ability as to "ruin" the forum. Should he even be joined by a half-dozen of his ilk, still not the power, as long as they're basically left to gripe amongst themselves.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Just frustration Jamie, just frustration. Without knowing the past and understanding how they did things back then, we are more likely to become dependant on power tools, IMHO.
Jeff
"Without knowing the past and understanding how they did things back then, we are more likely to become dependant on power tools, IMHO."
"So easy, a Caveman can do it." I'm slipping to cavewomanhood -- finding I'd rather do recessed hinges and barrel cutouts with handtools! Truly frightening, LOL! And, I learned two new words yesterday -- "quirk" (aka fillet) and "knuckle" (aka barrel).
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/16/2007 1:05 pm by forestgirl
Of course, Forestgirl (given your post, I will NOT use your real name anymore), that internet name problem is more acute if you have an uncommon name. In my case, as Charles Stanford pointed out, it would be a lot of work to figure out which one was me. On the internet, my name disappears in plain sight, like one fish in a school.The other side of the name issue, of course, is that people hide behind pseudonyms for many reasons. Sometimes it is just a matter of privacy, and sometimes not. I am a moderator of a history site where we permit web names on the open forum, but require real names in the profiles. Of course, people can lie about their names and quie a few have. However, in a tightly moderated forum like that one, someone usually notices if your profile lists "Mortimer Snerd" and you keep signing posts "Genevieve." We have found cases almost that obvious. When someone is behaving in an undesirable manner, we look more closely.What we have found is that by pressing for real names the level of civility stays much higher, and the quality of information does, too. There are lots of paper tough guys out there who are happy to unload on other people anonymously.Joe
"So easy, a Caveman can do it."
View Image
Just as everyone is kissing and making up, I get body-slammed once again! Is there any wonder that I'm in therapy?
-The Geico Caveman
Poster, I get your humor. I can't speak for you but I believe you're being tongue and cheek. Pretty funny...
Means to an end my friend.
The grill analogy is perfect, frankly. Sitting there in its cleanliness it satisfies no hunger. It is a tool used to make good food that families can sit together and enjoy. Its value, sitting alone on the deck very clean, is zilch. If it is used to make a memorable meal, something that years later a child says "I remember when we made that great feast for Father's Day" .... ahhhh now THAT is something.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/12/2007 1:52 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
I would tend to agree. Sometimes woodworkers lose sight as to what truly is important. That it's not the tool but rather the work the tool produces that matters in the end. You don't have to own a lie-nielsen plane with a bed tolerance of .002" in order to make heirloom quality furniture. Most of the high end period furniture made in the 1700's that go for $150,000 at auction were made with old wooden body planes that hardly anyone even uses anymore. In fact, I would contend that master craftsmen make their own tools. Much like Krenov does with planes.
However to defend RyanC, I believe his plane is his project. To take a plane and bring it back to life is something of an accomplishment. Now he has a tool that he can use throughout his life and have a personal connection with as he hears the plane sing on all of his future projects. Much like Krenov would do with a block of wood and piece of steel.
I actually believe that all those old wooden planes were kept suprisingly well tuned, flat, etc. since wood lends itself to nipping and tucking more than cast iron but that's a discussion for another day.
No doubt the handtool folder here will go the way of Woodnet's handtool forum where the vast majority of posts are by collectors, hoarders and restorers/resellers. I think that's a shame.
Comparing Krenov (and his philosophy on making tools) to these blokes is a brazen act of generosity that's for sure.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/12/2007 4:07 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Poster,
I think you"re wrong about the future direction of the Hand Tool section of Knots (of course, only time will tell whom amongst us has prescience). It seems to me that there will always be wood workers who are interested in hand tools because they are such an integral part of the craft..beginners like myself will have lots of basic questions and this forum gives us access to experience and wisdom that might otherwise be unavailable...here in rural Indiana, I haven't made the acquaintence of any woodworkers who can show me the ropes
By the way Ryan, even with an inadequate table saw, you can certainly square your boards with a couple of different planes...I built a tool box similiar to yours almost completely with hand tools (I did use a thickness planer, partly because I didn"t own a scrub plane and partly because I wanted to get on to the actual building portion...next time I'll do the boards by hand)
Always learning,
Neil
Mike,
Couldn't have said it any better. The feeling you get seeing that iron gleam back at you and knowing what it looked like when you started is very rewarding. My first thought was that I can't wait to put it to wood and see if my hard work will bear fruit.
Then your enthusiasm gets a REAL boost when you see those nearly see through shavings curl up out of the nouth! I feel that it's just as significant an accomplishment as the first piece made using it. There's a lot going on in the whole process.
After my first one, which I posted B4 & after pics of along with the encouragement I received from many folks like you, I couldn't wait to get started on the next one. I also learned an economic way to remove the bulk of the rust in the process. Metod also taught me to use my brain.
Now I have a delightful herd of very usable planes. My dads Millers-Falls is still my favorite smoother, perhaps a bit of sentiment here.
My grandfather always told me that you get more bear with sugar than you do with vinegar.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 6/12/2007 3:56 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
To Ryan: Great work. It is great to see a neglected tool lovingly restored to fine working condition. And it is especially heartening to see a young person like yourself doing the restoring (some folks on here might not be aware of your age -- give 'em a hint).
To ThePoster: I think it is apparent to everyone in the handtool section why restoration of handtools is relevant and important, even as an end unto itself. Your posts are irritating and disrespectful.
Tension and debate are what make these forums worthwhile, otherwise it's just an exercise in Stepford-isms.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Whatever...........
OhmyGodPlease read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Poster,
And then I was like,...and then he was like....
duhuh!
Ray
Thanks everyone for your words of encoragement. Thanks you too Poster. It was actually nice to defend myself in front of people. BTW since someone mentioned I should give a clue about my age; I'm going to take my drivers test this July.
We don't discriminate based on age here Ryan. You'll get a skewering when you need it. At your age, you've got all the potential in the world. Plane restoration is for retired geezers who wish they were as young as you. Get some sketch pads, some pencils, a book on drawing, and start designing furniture and then building it. If you run into a snag and need a tool, you email me and you will have it at your doorstep in two days. Get lost in design, not tinkering with old tools. Whenever you feel like you have to buy an outright piece of junk and then restore it, please contact me. We can do better than that. I want to hear from you about a mind-blowing furniture project that will test every ounce of skill you've developed to date. I'll do my best put the tools in your hands to make it a reality.
You guys who were wanting to find deserving woodworkers can wade in and join me to help this young man become a bona fide furnituremaker.
Ray, I'll meet you at the Galleria, like, you know, when I get there. OhmaGod. Ray, you've forgotten more than I'll ever know. Set this kid straight.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/12/2007 6:40 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
That's an awfully kind offer Poster! I'll start with another couple hundred square foot to add onto my 8 by 12 shop lol. Believe it or not that's waht I want (talking about the skewering). If I suck please someone tell me. Don't take it easy on me or my shotty work just because I'm sixteen. OTOH I did quite good on this plane and I know it, so there haha (just kidding).
Hey Ryan, you want some criticism? From a tool collector's point of view, when you painted that plane you destroyed it's value. There, take it like a man!!! Course if you tend to use it you can do what you damnwellplease with it. I've talked to you in the past. Me and you are a lot alike expect I'm you 15 years later... Keep up the good work...
mike
You're me fifteen years later?! How do you store all your tools?!!!
Learning that you're 16 puts a wholly different slant on this thing......It brings to mind a documentary I saw a few years ago on German industrial craftsmanship. They were talking about machinists, and explained that an apprentice spends the first nine months of his time doing nothing but sharpening tools. The theory was that not only do apprentices learn how to sharpen tools properly, but they come away filled with practical knowledge about the properties of various metals, how to work them, etc.I think perhaps your experience restoring that plane was in this same vein. Kudos to you................********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Never thought of it that way. Thanks nikkiwood. I do know that those first shavings were b-a-utiful!
"You're me fifteen years later?! How do you store all your tools?!!!"
Like this
...wow!
These are the tools I use.
Made a tool cabinet with about 50 antique tools inside I cleaned up much like your plane.
Oooh, I like it. I'm going to make a tool chest for my tools like one out of a Woodsmith magazine. It's going to be douglas fir except for the lid panel which is going to be book matched crotch cherry that I already have ordered.
Very cool... I always wanted to make a tool chest but never got around to doing it.. make sure you posts some pics when it's finished.
I will (now for sure lol). Usually I just ask for money for Christmas but this time I'll ask for Lowes gift cards so I have to spend my money on the wood for the chest. Here's a link to a pic of the chest http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/161/extras/traditional-tool-chest/
see, me and you are a lot alike... that's the same chest I wanted to make but never got around to it.. have fun making it...
I guess you're right. Should I be scared or should you lol? I've been planning on it for a while. As in what tools to get to put in it and so forth. I'm going to try and put a nice traveling kit in it instead of like a cabinetmakers kit.
If you have a good lumber yard in your area, get to know the people there, let them know what you want to build, what your budget is and what you want to use. Get in good with them and I think you'll be surprised by what they find for you. Great pieces of wood still find their way to local lumber yards and if they know someone is looking for them, they pull the good stuff aside.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I've got one in TN that I buy my walnut from but thats about it.
Are in the Paducah area? I've been to Kentucky Lake (KenLake Marina) on fishing trips and I thought there were signs for hardwoods in that area, along the roads.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
About an hour away. How do you like our lake? lol. Paducah's historic downtown is a nice place to look for tool btw.
It was nice but there was a storm system that made a career out of being there and all of the fish were stuffed by whatever they could eat that washed in from the shore. That's our rationalization for catching only three fish all week, anyway. Too many weird stories from that place.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Oh, did you hear about that Vampire cult?
In case anyone was wondering about that cult I mentioned here's a link; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Ferrell . Sorry for getting even more off top...wait a second..this is my thread, I'll do what I want lol!
Ryan and all
I can't believe I waded through all those posts .....
Ryan, I congratulated you on another forum for the quality of your work. I knew your age then and I thought that your efforts were exceptional. Now, having read this extraordonary thread, and very much aware of your youth in years, I want to congratulate you instead for your maturity of mind. May you long be an inspiration for us all.
Charlie, I also want to thank you. You seem to manage the impossible, this being to both repell and attract people at the same time. We are all aware that you have considerable woodworking experience and knowledge and that you offer this freely. I thank you for that. The trouble is that to get to the nut of wisdom we have first to dig through 10 feet of crap. You certainly have a special way of helping others bond by uniting them in a common voice of derision.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Thank you Derek. That by far is my most favorite compliment from this thread!
My sole purpose in life is to keep this place from getting too sickeningly sweet.
Now, let me pick up my posey and a sonnet and flit around the shop with them for a while. Maybe I'll get lucky during this delightful interlude and a tool will develop some rust that I can have fun removing.
Hope all is well.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/16/2007 8:41 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
>>My sole purpose in life is to keep this place from getting too sickeningly sweet.<<Well, you sure have succeeded in making it sickening.
[Avoid schadenfreude]
First I would like to say to RyanC: I think you did a really fine job on that plane. I am in the middle of cleaning up and learning to tune a #4 (type 8) that I picked up on Ebay. If mine turns out half as nice as yours I will be a very happy man. I got drawn to hand tools because of the safety, challenge and noise factors. <!----><!----><!---->
My “shop time” these days is limited to a time when my two boys are asleep or taking naps (they are 1 ½ and 4) so machine use is out for a while. I have to admit that if felt good seeing that plane make shavings (nothing you can read newsprint through….yet…). It also felt good knowing I am bringing something that might have wound up on a shelf or in a landfill back into service. As I restore it, I think of what kind of projects the craftsman of the past might have made with it. However, I imagine those craftsman viewed their tools as a means to an end. As a software engineer this is how I view a computer. I respect that tool because it helps me feed my family but that all. In my field no one really talks about restoring old hardware. If you brought the craftsman of 100 years ago to the present day and asked him about restoring “old tools” I wonder what his reaction would be. Especially after showing him modern electric tools or a CNC machine. I know this is not a clean comparison but an interesting question nonetheless. As much as I am enjoying the “restores” I am doing (I also have a “vintage” #80 cabinet scraper and a millers falls low angle block plane that need work but what I am really looking forward to is learning to effectively use these planes instead of my random orbital sander on my next project (toy chests for my boys!) Some of you might not like some of “posters” sarcasm, but I see two things there. One: A genuine offer to help in a significant way. An “atta boy” back slap… is a nice but an easy thing.. Offering to help by putting a tool in promising young persons hands…. that’s a little more in my book.. even if you got to get past a few thorns… In addition I thing the posters statements remind me of the author of an excellent book I recently read: “The seven essentials of woodworking by Anthony Guidice” In that book the author did not recommend jerking around with old tools. Instead he recommended one start with a LN low angle jack plane and use it for a year.. stating something to the effect of it would teach you more about planes than any working class or reading 1,000 magazines). As I emerge from the basement with my fingers filthy black (again) from lapping the sole of that 100 year old plane wondering if that step will help me make thinner shavings I can help but think maybe I should have heeded Mr. Guidice’s advice.. <!----><!---->
At this rate I probably won’t be able to start those toy chests until the leaves start to fall. <!----><!---->
Happy father’s day to all you dads out there.<!----><!---->
<!----><!---->
Thanks Rob! I look forward to seeing pics or your restores. A type 8, I sure would like one that old sometime, haven't found one older than a type 11 in the wild as of yet though. I suspect a woodworker from 100 years ago would slap each and every hand tool user if he saw some of the tools we have at our disposal lol.
Rob, Anthony's book should be required reading.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/17/2007 8:59 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Ok, I'm not gonna let this one die before it reaches 200. When it gets light outside someone post a reply to this post as a reminder and I'll put up a picture of my shop even though it's not at its cleanest.
I suggest you also make a short wish list of essential hand tools for the attention of Uncle Charles. Kick off with a set of saws that have the makers initials "M.W" on them....Try not list any of those mass produced planes, as the bespoke versions are superior....Philip Marcou
I'm planning on that for Christmas actually. Already told the parentals...for some reason they don't understand paying that much for an itty bitty saw (small joinery saw).
Phillp, you make planes. Why don't you donate one to Ryan?
And Mike Wenzloff makes saws. Maybe he'll pony up too.
I can send Ryan everything he needs for rough conversion of lumber. Can you guys take care of the next step? Phillip, with one of your smoothing planes and with one of Mike's dovetail saws this kid ought to be able to get a project built.
Talk is cheap. Let's do something. Not two months ago everybody on the forum was all fired up about donating tools and money for woodworking scholarships.
Everybody who thought this was a 'neat' idea, well, here's your chance. Shall I go back through the archives to see exactly who was all pumped up about it?
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/18/2007 7:25 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
I'm sure I can dig up some stuff.
Ryan, why don't you pick out a reasonable project that's a bit of a challenge for you skill-wise, in which you need some tools you don't have and we could walk you through it and maybe supply the missing bits (tools or materials) so long as you aren't too fussy about brands. Only thing is we'll expect pictures and reports.
It'll be fun, we'll all learn something!
David C
A mission/arts and crafts style end table. That's what I'd like to build.
Mission furniture is good to start with, straight lines mostly, straightforward joinery. Finishing can get problematic if you want to be traditional (fumed Oak). But I like the way it looks in Walnut or Cherry, really any wood works well.
Do you have plans yet?
Shop looks basic and functional. More than I had to work with when I was 16, back during the Carter Administration. Is it yours to use alone or do you have to share it with family members who use if for other purposes? The reason I ask is that you might want to beef up the bench a bit for handwork.
David C
I do have plans for a small one I drew up a while back...I'll go dig 'em up.
Ah ha! Just found the post I was looking for. In regard to my shop it is all mine as a matter of fact its been made clear that when I'm in my shop I'm not to be disturbed. Whenever someone comes out there I stop everything and make it clear how anxious I'm getting. Seriously whenever someone else is in there it just disturbs me. Luckily I'm the only handyman/woodworker in my family since my great grandfather (no I didnt get any of his tools *insert sad face*)
The reason I ask about the shop is one thing you can do while you sort out the project and gather tools and materials is to beef up your bench.
Hand tool woodworking really wants a good sturdy bench. It doesn't have to be a fancy bench, mind you, just sturdy. You will appreciate this when you are chopping mortises and planing.
If your bench shimmys 'n shakes while planing, much of the energy that you expend driving the plane is wasted dancing with your bench. I had a similar bench years (many) ago and to keep it from racking I attached a length of well pipe from the side apron to a nearby post, parallel to the line of planing. Solid, like a rock!
Double-up the 2 X 4 on the left leg if you are right-handed also the apron at the front- if you can make the left leg and the apron co-planar it opens up a world of simple work holding opportunities. I have a pair of holdfasts I'd be happy to send your way (and a bunch of other things too, once we discover what you need).
Don't worry about fancy bench vises and dogs, you can do everything with c-clamps, V-stops and simple, time tested work holding methods. It takes a bit of forethought and some extra time, but time you have!
David C
Trust me. My bench is plenty sturdy. I made sure of it when I built it so many moons ago. I bolted that sucker straight to my shop walls so if my bench is shaking its because my shop is shaking.
Edited 6/20/2007 2:56 pm ET by RyanC
Ok,ok so I went a looooooooooooong way over board, I admit it and apologies if I stepped on any tootsies. But more than likely I'll do it again,
It's just,I belive if a person does something good; like Ryan did with his handplane ;then simply praise the good job that he did . "Remember it's his moment to shine") Then if he asks for someone's opinion or asks for pictures or any kind of input for that matter "T H E N" and only"THEN" should someone feel free to show off what they have, or tell them what they have to say." BUT NOT UNLESS YOUR ASKED!"
Just because it's a free world and we have freedom of speech doesn't always mean we give a cra* what others think or what they have to show us especially as a response to someone else's post.
If you want others to know what you have or what you have to say then create your own posts, And hopefully"YOU" will get the same respect and the same type of responses that you've given to others..
As far as giving someone a piece of my mind goes,I have to say; Geeeees I hope not , I don't have much left up there to be getting rid of. ( I'm more than likely wrong) But I think some folks are like me and get pretty sick of someone always thinking they have to show someone up or always think they have to voice an opinion of what a person could have done other than what they actually did do.
I know we all like to think that we have a bit of teaching instinct and ability in us all and would like to keep people from making the same mistakes that we have made in our pasts but unless your asked or can politely contribute as to your abilities in a sence able manner during someone else's posts then by all means lets hear what you have to say but if you can't then "Mind your own business"and keep your opinions to yourself.
Sincerely,Jim at Clark Customs
Trust me. My bench is plenty sturdy. I made sure of it when I built it so many moons ago. I bolted that sucker straight to my shop walls so if my bench is shaking its because my shop is shaking.
Fair enough. Hard to tell too much from a picture. What do you have in the way of a bench vise or clamps?
Have you decided what you want to make the table out of, quarter sawn oak would be the traditional choice but walnut, cherry or many other woods would be nice too.
David.
I have a cheapy HF bench vise I need to re-attach to the bench but aside from that a have alot of spring clamps and a few F-clamps as well as a few C-clamps. I'll probably go with walnut on this one as I already know of a place. Wood for the legs may be the only problem due to the thickness though.
I just looked at the plan for the table again. Some of it is 3/8" and 1 3/4". Does anyone know of a source near me (western KY)?
try http://www.woodfinder.com see what you come up with for the 1 3/4" stock. The 3/8" stock you'll have to size by hand or find someone with a planer if you don't own one..
Edited 6/21/2007 10:48 am ET by mvflaim
Ryan,
If you are making the small side table with the drawer the only 3/8 Walnut I see is for the slats, which are only 1-inch wide. You could rip that from the the 8/4 you are going to need for the legs. Even your entry level saw should be able to handle that. Rip it a bit oversize and plane it to finished size with your nused refubed plane!
I forgot to look to see what the secondary drawer parts are, but these could be poplar or soft maple.
David C.
Oh duh lol. I was trying to make it more complicated. Thanks David!
As promised, here's a pic of the shop. It's in the process of being cleaned. I am able to work in it right now but it's still pretty dirty...it has been worse though. Don't fun of her, she's all I have.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/Ryan-Cathey/100_0448.jpg
That's very kind of you to suggest Poster but I couldn't accept something like that. Old/used tools now that's a different story (just kidding).
"Everybody who thought this was a 'neat' idea, well, here's your chance. Shall I go back through the archives to see exactly who was all pumped up about it?"I find it very hard to take one seriously about accountability issues when they post under a pseudonym and make disclaimers about their posts.Oh, and sorry about copying part of your post.Wilbur
I don't care whether you take me seriously or not. Do you have anything to help Ryan? Do you have a tool to donate? Shop supplies perhaps?
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
I can send him a 22" wooden jointer and some marking and layout tools if he wants them. He can learn to tune up an old wooden jointer the way they did it the 1800's. He should have fun and learn something at the same time. Just let me know Ryan.
"I don't care whether you take me seriously or not. Do you have anything to help Ryan? Do you have a tool to donate? Shop supplies perhaps?"No one here needs to justify to you how we choose to donate our time or of ourselves, or how much we choose to do of either.Besides, your efforts towards Ryan, though laudable, do not change the fact that, according to your signature, you lack the integrity to stand behind your words. If you did, you would not need such a disclaimer.Wilbur
Edited 6/18/2007 11:00 pm ET by wilburpan
O.K. Wilbur, I don't have any character or credibility.
You win.
The disclaimer, by the way, is a joke which is how most people with an I.Q. of at least 80 have taken it.
Summer will be over before you know it, and Ryan's focus back on school. I don't have a lot of time to score rhetorical points with you.
Can you help Ryan? If not, maybe your participation is needed in another thread. If you can't send anything then just bow out. We've moved beyond the debate on rehabbing planes. Ryan can use his newly rehab'd plane to work on a project. We're trying to get him fixed up to do some woodworking and set aside the rust cleaning for at least a little while.
Shop supplies like glue, sandpaper, finishing products, etc. will be needed and this stuff adds up.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/19/2007 7:41 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
As I said before regarding your "challenges" to be charitable, no one here needs to justify to you how we choose to donate our time or of ourselves, or how much we choose to do of either.But since you keep asking about my ability to give aid to others: as it happens, this week I'm volunteering as camp doc at a camp for children with cancer and blood disorders. We've got 112 campers this week. As part of the activities here, there's a woodshop program here for the kids that I help out with as well.Hope that's good enough for you.
112 kids!!! Jeeze...you've done your charity for next couple years. Good on ya!
Ryan, school's out for the summer. What do you have on the drawing board to build?
What do you need to build it?
Two simple questions.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/18/2007 7:19 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
I was planning on a table of some sort. Maybe (MAYBE) a desk. Something to show off some nice wood.
Ryan, it's time to get your stuff together. Pick out a plan for a table, figure out what you need to build it - down to the last tack - and let us know what you're missing.
You're going to need to chop mortises. Take your pick - I have Lie Nielsen mortise chisels or Two Cherries that you can use. Hell, I'll give you the L-Ns - I have a 1/4" and a 3/8" chisel. The 3/8" chisel has never touched wood. I found the L-Ns to be a little dainty for my taste. The Two Cherries are big and there can be a bit of a learning curve using them to chop a short mortise. I'll record me chopping a mortise with one and send it to you, if you get stumped.
I imagine that I can scare up a tenon saw that you can use for the duration of the project if Mike Wenzloff doesn't come up with something. The saw I have is not nearly as fine as a Wenzloff & Sons. I saw my tenons with a big bowsaw, so there has to be a back saw or two lying around somewhere in my shop.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/18/2007 5:57 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Edited 6/18/2007 6:00 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Excellent, Charles....the object of my previous post was to see you "put your money where your mouth is" and start the ball rolling-and it looks like some decent chisels are about to be donated by your good self.
Now, regarding your hint that I should donate a plane made by me: much as I would like to do this I am simply not yet in a position to do so-as I suspect you know. I am still at the stage of making all parts myself, so can't even get an employee to do one on overtime or my time. In addition, the cost of shipping this weight to America from New Zealand is about 2/3rds the cost of a new Veritas, or one or more decent saws.
To put it another way- are you expecting me to donate about two weeks worth of my time and materials in response an "idea"? Otherwise I can come up with a vision of a bigger shed for Ryan, and expect you to pop round there to erect it.....Philip Marcou
Phillip, do what you can do. I don't know how you are situated with prototypes you no longer need or perhaps other brands of planes perhaps you owned before you started your operation.
Of course, nobody expects you to donate a plane valued in the four figures.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/19/2007 7:32 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
I wanted to add that I'm not trying to offend anyone, it's just I don't want to put anyone out.
You're not puttin anyone out... we got old tools laying around our shops that would be in much better hands if we gave them to you rather than keep them under our benches collecting dust..... If you want a 22" wooden jointer to tune up just let me know...I'll ship it out to you.
I could go with the old un-used tools but I could not accept any new tools. Thanks for the offer, btw, but I just see a wooden jointer as too steep a learning curve and on top of that the place I buy my walnut from is s2s. Thanks a million though. (Almost to 200!!!)
Ryan,
The design for your table, did you draw it on paper or is it in electronic format? If so which type. Can you post it?
Probably best to start with a design review. Then you'll know just what you need before we all bury you in rust!
David C.
Yeah, I got it from somewhere on the web then modified it a little. I'll look for it real quick.
Ok, I couldn't find the one I found so many moons ago but I did find two table and two chairs. I'd love to build a Morris chair but I don't know if I could accomplish that one.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/woodworking/1273231.html
http://www.how-to-plans.com/arts_crafts_mission_style_nightstand_end_table_plans.html
http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/155/extras/morris-chair/
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projectplans_display/?planid=11097
EDIT: I found it http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projectplans_display/?planid=11129
Edited 6/19/2007 3:20 pm ET by RyanC
Edited 6/19/2007 3:24 pm ET by RyanC
Personally, I'd not take on too much to start, but you do want some challenge to build your skills. I like the first one best because it uses a minimum of wood in manageable lengths (your bench area is not real big) and gives you the opportunity to cut several types of joints. But with straightforward right angle cuts and simple joinery. It also has a drawer, which will give you some experience with both through and half-blind dovetails, plowing grooves and whatnot.
So (FWIW) that's my take.
David C.
Mission style would be perfect. Simple, clean, basic. Just keep it small. I have an old Stanley low- angle block plane and tenon saw that I haven't touched in years. They're yours. Just e-mail your address and off they'll go.
[email protected]
Paul
That's very kind of you. I can use both of those! I'll email you.
Hey Chuck,
That's mighty generous of you! Let's see... you donate a $40 chisel, Philip Marcou donates a $2000 plane and 3 weeks of his time.
Sounds fair to me.
If Karl Holtley springs for that 22" jointer, I'll gladly put up for a mechanical pencil.
Lee (that's my real name)
If you read earlier, I was going to donate everything Ryan needed for rough conversion which would be two planes and two saws plus the chisels and I've got more.
Not looking for equal gifts but equal sacrifice, but see my post to Philip.
Time to quit sticking barbs in each other and get this kid off square one and on to a project which will really build self-confidence.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/19/2007 7:39 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
I'm 2000+ saws out at the moment, so I think it would be poor form to make a new saw out of order.I have nearly a dozen saws to refurb for others in the same boat as Ryan. But I would do another or two. Best to know what it is Ryan is going to make to assess the needs--no sense in a large saw if small joinery work is going to be done and vice versa.But I'm sure something can be done.Even though I sold off nearly all non-essential tools over the last year and a half (except a couple dozen saws), I suspect there's a block plane or two, perhaps a couple transitionals lying about. Maybe even a set of chisels.I don't check the board every day...so Charles, I addressed this to you for a reason. While we can all throw tools at young Ryan, it would be good if there is a single person who is keeping tabs, communicating to both the receiver and the donators to make sure needs are met. This is how I've been involved in some other of these things. Would you be that person?Ryan, this is the type of thing which does happen in our community of woodworkers from time to time. Please consider communicating with The Poster about your project so needs can be met. And please feel free to accept these small tokens. One day, perhaps some of these can be passed along in kind to another person you meet.Take care, Mike
Ryan, if you will contact me with your home address, I am sure that I can scare up one of my marking knife and scratch awl sets. I would be very happy if you would accept this, and hope that it will bring you pleasure in your woodworking.
[email protected]
Regards from Perth
Derek
This is really all too much everyone. I never expected a Wenzloff or a plane from Marcou or even a marking set from Derek. I appreciate the sentiment greatly but I don't think I could possibly except anything from you guys. Neanders (and woodworkers in general) are, in my eyes, the greatest people on earth but I really can't see them giving a 16 year old all these things. I have a 1", 5/8", and 1/2" chisel. I might could manage to swallow some pride and take a usable (that means with some rust) tenon saw and a 1/4 chisel (which doesn't have to be, and preferably not, a LN). Thank you all so much for your generosity.
I understand. If you change you mind, let us know. I'd be more than happy to do this on long-term loan or for the duration of your project or something along those lines.
Email me and I'll send you the 1/4" L-N mortise chisel. ([email protected])
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/20/2007 6:42 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Guy, that was funny. Yo're pretty sharp.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Thanks...I try lol.
Ryan, I assume you have aspirations as a furnituremaker. Sure, you have to know about your implements and your medium but you need to make sure that you place the emphasis on educating and developing your artistic sensibilities.
The offer to help you build a serviceable kit of tools is to get you PAST THE TOOL ACCUMULATION PHASE as fast as possible and on to the work itself. You do not have to be an expert on every product the Stanley Rule and Level Company ever made, nor Sargent, or any other tool company to understand how to use a plane to remove material.
Put the tool catalogs down and read books on art, design, furniture history, etc. Go to a museum. Don't listen to the freaks on these woodworking forums who sit around drooling over the bloody damned Grizzly catalog or some Type 11 plane selling on EBay.
Being sixteen years old has nothing to do with anything, in fact as artistic endeavors go you could well be already behind the curve. I've seen stunning works of art created by teenagers in many different media. My nephew was gigging in New Orleans jazz clubs when he was 15, and he didn't wake up on his 15th birthday magically knowing how to play the drums. He went to Loyola on a music scholarship. You probably go to school with talented artists and musicians who are your age or younger. Put your nose to the grindstone doing your art, not obssessing over the tools. Time is rarely on an artist's side. You can't start too young and it's impossible to be too serious about your work (but still have fun with it).
You need to meet Rob Millard from this forum if you think you need much more shop space. He works out of a one-car garage and builds really stunning Federal reproductions. Do a search on Rob and take a look at what he builds. I think he's posted a picture or two of his shop, too.
There are plenty of people around who will encourage you to leap into their vortex of mediocrity. They will regale you with stories about their late-night escapades with 220 grit sandpaper on cast iron as well as weekends spent "rust hunting" for tools they'll clean up and put on a shelf to look at.
Don't fall into this trap.
Dinking around cleaning up tools ought to be your least favorite part of the whole thing - a necessary evil before you get back to pencil, sketchpad, and the project on the bench.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/13/2007 1:31 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
One car garage?! Psh I wish! My shop is 8' by 12'!!
You can manage. Do your rough cuts outside on sawhorses and move everything in when it's time to do the joinery. You probably won't build a massive breakfront anytime soon, but you're not ready for that anyway most likely.
A small shop forces you to boil it down to the essence. You won't have a lot of unused stuff lying around that's for sure. This could be the best thing that ever happened to you.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
You're probably right. Thanks again for the confrontation, it was nice to have a discussion I actually had to think about.
Good luck.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Friends, this is puzzling. Why do Poster and Max Yak etc feel moved to criticize tool restoration?
What Ryan has done shows initiative, and is clearly very satisfying to him in and of itself. It is also excellent basic training on the tool he restored. It is a wonderful introduction to two satisfying hobbys: woodworking and tool restoration. The fact that he is 16 years old makes it very impressive in my eyes. I am proud of Ryan and pleased that he has joined us here at Knots. I hope he stays for years to come.
Many people get a good deal of satisfaction out of recognizing old tools in junk shops, flea markets and the like, buying them cheaply, and restoring them. Why shouldn't they? Why should anyone object? Some of the people who collect and restore are also very highly skilled wood and metal workers who use the tools they restore to great effect. Others just like to collect. Can't we be tolerant of both kinds? Don't both have much to offer here in the hand tools section of Knots?
We spend a lot of quite interesting time talking about tools that cost more than the annual income of most of the people in the un-developed world. In fact, we discuss with relish planes and chisel sets that are priced at more than a week or two after-tax salary for mid-level white collar workers here in the US of A. So why not be equally open minded to people who actually buy things for reasonable prices and restore them?
Recall too, this is the hand tool section of Knots. There is a joinery section. There is a Gallery. There is a finishing section. So what's wrong with talking about tools in the tool section?
Edited 6/14/2007 10:28 am ET by Joe Sullivan
I'm going to print your post and write "PABLUM" across it with a Sharpie and pin it to the bulletin board in my shop.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/14/2007 11:44 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Thank you for your prompt and courteous response.
I'd thank you by name, but your true identity is concealed, perhaps so that no one will embarass you with blatant displays of gratitude for your efforts to brighten everyone's life.
Doubtless a positive personality like yours is simply magnetic, so you will never be lonely.
Joe Sullivan
hear hear
ours is one of the few hobby/pursuits were a hundred year old tool is just as good as the newest and greatest
what other hobbies are there where one can buy a 5 dollar item at a flea market, take it home and for a few bucks and a couple of hours, create something
i use 5 dollar planes everyday, scribing, fitting what ever
the looks i get from customers is priceless somedays
"what no laser guided, cabide tipped, thousand dollar machine? and a pile of saw dust all over my carpets and furniture?"
no a simple handplane a few shavings
Joe, how would I distinguish you from the thousands of other Joe Sullivans in the United States or the world for that matter?My name is Bill Smith, if it means anything to you.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/14/2007 1:27 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Easily, Mr. Stanford. I am the one who lives in Wylie, Texas and has a web site at http://www.joseph-sullivan.com. You can even see my picture there just for positive ID, although I can't imagine why anyone but my mother would want to see it.
Double alias, eh? Pretty clever of you.
Joseph A Sullivan of Wylie Texas
I not only have a double alias, I'm also a double-nought spy. Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Let's see how long it takes before this thread is moved or the posts are deleted!!
John Viola of Franklin MA
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Or how long it takes the paint to dry, eh?Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
I will admit that many tool posts do take on that effect after a while...especially if the name Festool is invoked.
Wait, I've done it now, haven't I?
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
I for one never expected so many posts. I'm kinda proud this thread has my name plastered all over it lol.
You 'da man now dog....Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Fo' shizzle!
I think the main things to take from Charles' posts are, (1) what he is saying about getting to work is true. That doesn't mean one cannot do both the restoration of the tools and produce something too. (2) I believe he is dead serious about helping to outfit you. Personally I would communicate with him off-line about his generous offer.Having a context to understand what it is you are doing to tools in their "fettling" if the intent is to use them is best. The only way to do that is to use them for either constructive practice or serious intent. Either produce something valuable in terms of completed work.At your age, having the time and growing ability to produce items of value to you and those you know is a precious thing.Take care, Mike
who is getting to his emails...
You want a lot of posts on a thread? Start one titled "Festool is the best!!" and another titled "EZSmart RULES!!".
Your inbox will fill within minutes.
Nice work btw.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Edited 6/14/2007 3:40 pm ET by JJV
Haha. Thanks!
Start a thread about how Festool and SawStop are destroying American Unions and you'll have 300 posts in twenty minutes... then it will be moved to the Cafe...
"I'm kinda proud this thread has my name plastered all over it lol." I'm gonna get just a little bit serious here, maybe not pertinent specifically to this thread, or even to Taunton forums, but keep this in mind: anything you type in a forum can end up as a hit under your name in a Google search. If you're using a pseudonym (or several, such as our needling little friend Cstan) it'll probably be attached to that in the database, but if your real name shows in the post, it can show up attached to that.
There was a story yesterday in the news about a middle-aged man (50's maybe?) who cannot visit the United States from his home in Canada because in his 20's he wrote an article condoning drug use. He has no record, he's never been arrested, he abandoned such youthful folly decades ago, but the border agents Googled him and found reference to that article. He's banned from crossing the border. His daughter lives here.
I was surprised several months ago when I Googled my name and a post at WWA showed up as a hit! Turned out, it was a copy of a letter to the Jimmy Carter Foundation I had posted as an FYI when we were fund-raising at WWA for the tsunami victims a couple/three years ago. I had left my name in the copy. I immediately took it out by editing the post.
At some point, most adults come to place great value on their privacy. The internet makes privacy pretty darned difficult these days.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
... and I think Taunton has me on double secret probation......
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/14/2007 3:36 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
If you are going to do that, make sure you spell it correctly - "PABULUM"
The dictionary is the wordsmith's pencil and vellum.
I get what you are saying but, quite frankly, your approach could use some work. Apparently you are passionate about Art. (Capital A is on purpose there.) I am not. Perhaps Ryan will not be. Perhaps he will be satisfied-as many of us are-tinkering in a shop and making boxes or simple furniture. We'll do it for the enjoyment, not because we want to leave our mark on the world. Why deride that? What makes your path so pure that everyone else's leads them to a "vortex of mediocrity"? Since we're also getting childish at times on this thread, who died and made you God?
You have a valid point somewhere in there, but it's obstructed by your arrogant blustering. Only when you became more civil to Ryan did it become clear. There's no reason not to start off like that.
Oh, my name is John J. Viola, and I live in Franklin, MA. No need to hide here.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Here you go 'bro:Pab·lum /ˈpæbləm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pab-luhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
1. Trademark. a brand of soft, bland cereal for infants.
–noun
2. (lowercase) trite, naive, or simplistic ideas or writings; intellectual pap.It can be spelled either way.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/14/2007 3:02 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
I see in the email notification that you are Stanford, as in Charles Stanford? Your approach now makes more sense to me.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Edited 6/14/2007 3:07 pm ET by JJV
What's in a name, John?Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Nothing, just an identifier. A poster FKA Charles Stanford took a similar approach to the folks on this board, and it just got me wondering.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
BINGGGGGOHHHHH!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The dictionary is the wordsmith's pencil and vellum.
Thanks for the chuckle, John.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
You're welcome.
Still waiting for some responses to my questions. If your previous history is any indication (if you are indeed who I think you are), I won't receive them.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
I agree entirely.
Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take for granted; nor to find talk and discourse; but to weigh and consider.
I wish I had said that but Francis Bacon beat me to it. Tolerance is a great aid to education.
Please don't lump me with Poster. I am not criticizing the task of tool restoration or those who do it or those who want to talk about it.
I raised a valid question about the cost estimate Steve gave in what was obviously a too-subtle attempt at humor.
Perhaps Poster's cynicism has just polluted the atmosphere too much to allow a sense of humor to survive in this thread...
MikeTo the man with a hammer, all the world is a nail.
Sorry, Mike. I just misunderstood, and certainly had no intention of assinating your character with a comparison like that.
Joe
Hey Joe, ....Assinating? If that was a miss-spelling then it may be quite a good one (;)Philip Marcou
Agree on both points. It was a happy error.
Sadly, this forum lacks spell checker, which is the only way that I can maintain the facade of literacy.
Joe
The (new) word has been duly noted, for appropriate further use, as and when required-which could be soon.
But seriously, there is a spell checking facility-or is it dependant on which browser one uses?
But then again, the trubble with these spell chekkers is that they are not chekking that one uses the correct word at all times-which can lead to assinine errors.Philip Marcou
I've seen writing on a bathroom stall that did something like that. Funny stuff lol
Be sure to scrutinise any writings for artistic content....and beware of limbo dancers.Philip Marcou
Edited 6/15/2007 3:29 am by philip
Words to live by.
Phillip,Assinating: Stating an opinon that makes it clear that you have the only opinion that matters
and everyone that has a different opinion is stupid and squandering their time
on earth pursuing useless works which in the opinion of the assinator have no
value. Ron BreseIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
Er, yes...
If you want another chuckle just type the word "assinate" into Google-observe the heading that comes up and read what it says under the heading "Kunstemaecker" .....
How goes the plane making?Philip Marcou
Edited 6/16/2007 12:02 am by philip
Man, Philip, you crack me up. Stick around here too long and someone will chastise you for spending too much time making planes with shiny parts and not enough time making your campaign furniture!
-Andy
Phillip,What do think the definition of "assinating" would be? (grin)Ron BreseIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
"My shop is 8' by 12'!!"As long as you can get your projects out the door, you should be OK. Widening a door isn't the end of the world but, well, you know...
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I have bad dreams about stuff like that lol
Getting to know your tools is part of the process, but well said Poster. I'll be more than happy to help when I can.
Paul
Don't worry everyone. I'm southern...I'll have to be really bad off to ask for help lol.
What qualifies you to decide that he needs skewering?Nice offer re: needed tools, as long as it's serious. "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 6/16/2007 12:06 am by highfigh
Sir, I dont know what you were Formerly Known As but it's a piety you wer'nt around 50 odd yrs ago to give me that advice.
Perhaps if you had I could show some pictures of furniture I had made probly with the plane that he has brought back to life. Then again when I was his age very few people could tell me anything.
But who knows If the PERSON who decides how much time we have . left allows I may make something out of wood with all these new fangled tools I have at my disposal. Good luck to you O dispenser of sound advice. Regds boysie.I'm never always right but i'm always never wrong. Boysie
"Then again when I was his age very few people could tell me anything."
My interest is intrigued when I so much as hear the word rust so I kinda make it a habbit of listening on these forums lol.
Ryan,
It is unusual for someone your age to be involved in traditional craft. My experience is that technology, computers, hi-def tv, ipods, blackberrys, video games, has captured the attention of your generation. I honestly do not know what this means for the future of craft skills- I thought that hand woodworking was a dying art in 1971 when I was just beginning! So who knows, maybe you are in the vanguard of a resurgence in the old technologies. My hope is that the sterile world of hi-tech will spark its own backlash, as the Arts and Crafts movement was spawned in reaction to the excesses of the industrial revolution.
Just the other day, a client was telling me he'd bought some wrought iron hooks from a young fellow who was learning blacksmithing. He mentioned that this fellow's younger brother was working wood, and he was only 14 years old! I was about to say something to the effect of what I wrote to you above, when my customer mentioned that the two boys were old-order Mennonites. Well, that explained everything.
By way of encouragement, I'd like to recommend that you read everything you can get your hands on, not just about the area of craft (or art) that interests you, but other arenas as well. You never know what is out there that may spark a desire to explore a new path. And, as Poster has exhorted you, don't be afraid to get your hands dirty, to learn by doing. And don't be discouraged by having to develop your skills as you go along.
"However mean or inconsiderable the act, there is something in the well-doing of it, which has fellowship with the noblest forms of manly virtue; and the truth, decision, and temperence, which we reverently regard as honorable conditions of the spiritual being, have a representative or derivitive influence over the works of the hand, the movements of the frame, and the action of the intellect." John Ruskin, from The Seven Lamps of Architecture
Good luck,
Ray
I hear that one alot. Luckily now that I'm older I'm not looked at with such curiosity as I was in sixth grade lol. I will be working on that tool chest this winter I promise. It's just I have to wait for the money lol.
I, for one am glad to see that there are others in the world who can still enjoy the work and not just the end results. If all we are concerned with are the end results and how fast we can get there, then we should all just use power tolls and hog wood down to dimensions as fast as possible. This is perfectly acceptable and if it provides satisfaction in your work then great. But, please, lets not belittle someone else's passion in what they decide is worthwhile endeavor.
"A well maintained cast iron tool in continuous use would not develop patina except perhaps for the tote"
Nonsense, cast iron darkens with age and sweat, even when oiled regularly, the only way to keep them shiny all over is to periodically use an abrasive. The sides of the plane (unless it is used for shooting in both directions) will darken as the iron oxidizes evenly over time. Some like the way that looks (like me).
"Tools need context in the form of works completed with them"
Why is that? Can't you enjoy tools simply for their artistry or their rarity? Lot's of collectors do. I agree that tools should be used, but each person comes to woodworking from different places, some are woodworkers, some hobbyist woodworker/collectors (me) and some are pure collectors. None are any better than any other, just different.
Ryan's plane is just as beautiful sitting on a shelf or in the context of trimming a sticky door or preparing wood for a Krenovian cabinet.
BTW, Ryan is very young (16 years old?), already quite knowledgeable and enthusiastic about hand tools, and justly proud of a fine job rehabbing an old, neglected plane. For whatever purpose he cares to make of it.
I can't find a thing wrong with that.
David Carroll
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Feel free to copy and quote anything that I say for purposes of discussion, after all this is a public forum and intelligent people will understand that each of us has different points of view and that very few interesting things in life are neatly explained by immutable facts. This is why respectful, if sometimes heated discussion is both interesting and stimulating. IMO that is. ;-)
DCaarr10760 said, "...already quite knowledgeable and enthusiastic about hand tools..."
I have alot of time on my hands and read everything I can about handtools. Sometimes I'll go the the OldTools archive and hit the "browse" button and select 50 or 60 subjects that sound interesting. I'll sit in front of the computer and read for hours on end about tools.
Hey Ryan,
Nice work.
I am new to this restoration of old planes and as luck would have it, I've restored a nice collection of Stanley/Baileys that are now producing some very nice surfaces to the wood that I'm working on.
Keep up the good work. It's acctually fun Eh? Perhaps not so much when you start removing all the rust and neglect. But, it's a great feeling when you try that first swoosh with your reincarnated new tool, that YOU did.
I for one am still hoping for my first Marcou, Lie Nielsen or perhaps even a new Lee Valley-Veritas bevel up Jack for my new shooting board.
Many thanks for the post. It provides inspiration for us.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks alot Bob. I scary sharpened it with the only grit I had on hand (150) and then tried it on some sycamore. It took shavings the likes of which I never expected and my first thought was just "wow". I mean yeah, funtion is nice but who says it can't funtion with some style.
Ryan,
I'm a scary sharpener too and I took mine up through the grits to 4,000 everywhere; on the sole, sides and cutting iron.
Well I guess that sentence could lead to some interpretation!? Got the finer grits from an auto parts store.
Incredible! It's great to see someone else headed down the slippery slope.
Oh it's fun! Thanks to all you folks.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I'm going to go higher up in the grits but I only have a little cash to spend from something I sold on ebay and I have some leads on a few planes I'm going to check out tomorrow. Thanks again Bob for the encouragement.
Do what makes you happy. You aren't here to agree with other people's opinions.Nice job. I haven't read all of the thread but I assume at least one person mentioned protecting the bare cast iron surfaces. Some protectants, like paste wax, will turn it brownish purple but will do a good job. It also helps the sole glide easier although, being a 5C, it shouldn't be too hard to move. Rather than buying sandpaper from Woodcraft or Rockler, go to a place that sells auto body supplies or the paint department of a big box store. I don't know if you have Menard's in KY but that's where I buy most of my sandpaper, emery cloth, Scotch Brite and other finishing supplies. Keep it up. If you want to restore planes and collect, do it and don't worry about what others say.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Thanks highfigh. I had to force myself to stop watching ebay. I have a thing for number threes and can't seem to avoid them.
Nice work Ryan. Don't let that numb-skull get you down
Paul
Ryan,
Reading through this thread got me thinking. Lots of criticism for a job well done. I think you're well on your way to building a fine tool collection that will serve you well in your woodworking.
I think you'll run into many woodworkers who seem to miss the point and jump to conclusions about you and your work. Just let it slide. No one is in your shoes, and no one can tell you how to enjoy woodworking.
As a hobbyist, as you are undoubtedly are at your age, I think what you've done is wonderful. The point I see: You enjoyed repairing the tool, and you are proud of your work. You've learned about the tool, and what goes into it; there is no better way than pulling something apart and putting it back together.
As a hobbyist myself there is no more important thing in woodworking, and more importantly in life, than enjoying what I do.
I feel sorry for those that criticized you. I don't think they really understand the enjoyment in the 'small things' of the craft.
I have no choice but to be a hobbyist at this time. I have a table saw, other assorted portable tools, and a decent sized gathering of hand tools. Along with little space and funds I just don't have the equipment to produce large scale furniture. I enjoy building boxes but with a POS table saw it's hard to get accurate cuts, I don't mean to blame my work on my tools but at 110 dollars for a table saw I think it's safe to say it's not all me. Sorry about the pity party.
RyanSince I sold you the plane that you have turned into a real beauty with your hard work, I wanted to chime in here and say good work, be true to yourself and run that puppy over some wood and make some shavings! I wish I had started at 15 or 16. When you have aged an eternity and are 47, you will be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY ahead of where I am now. Best to you, my friend. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Will do Tom. I might post some pics of some of the shavings I took the other day...not that I saved them or anything...
I changed my mind about the square footage. Ill opt for some nice big pieces of cherry or walnut...ya know...whatever you have on hand. I'd put it to better use. I drew up some plans for a Arts and Crafts style end table a while back that I'd sure like to build.
Well said.
"As a hobbyist, as you are undoubtedly are at your age, I think what you've done is wonderful. The point I see: You enjoyed repairing the tool, and you are proud of your work. You've learned about the tool, and what goes into it; there is no better way than pulling something apart and putting it back together."
Ryan will be further encouraged by the sentiments of the above statement, in contrast to the potentially adverse effects of sarcastic, sneering, skewering, skewed comments/bollocking from the gallery- which were not originally intended to be constructive by any stretch of the imagination.
I would like to think that Ryan will tackle his woodworking challenges in the same way that he did with that plane, and hope he shows us pictures of his work-and stays on the forum.Philip Marcou
Edited 6/13/2007 6:47 am by philip
hey nice work
i cant afford a new leevalley plane, and have discovered old planes at flemarkets
with some tlc and a good sharpening, ive turned a few "rust buckets" into finely tuned tools
in fact a few weeks ago i ahd t trim a doorstop ina house to allow a door to close properly a few strokes with my stanley rebate plane no78 and a couple of passes with little block plane and the job was done
tool cost? about 20 bucks and maybe 2 hours
Feels nice doesn't it? lol
Steve wrote: "tool cost? about 20 bucks and maybe 2 hours"
Um, plus how many hours at flea markets to find the thing?To the man with a hammer, all the world is a nail.
Max,
Not to be negative to your post, but Ya gotta believe that there is a lot of satisfaction and joy to see you've turned that lump of rust turn into a really nice tool.
It's not necessarily all about economy. The lessons learned from embarking on a plane restoration are, in my humble opinion invaluable. Or any old tool for that matter.
One cannot put a price on that as I think everyone's skill level is different as are their expectations. But Ya gotta agree, it sure feels nice............
Not to mention the feeling one gets when you take that first pass with your new plane and those gossamer thin curls of shavings hop out of the finely tuned mouth of your pride and joy.
Kinda makes it all worth while to me. Hey if I can make an old tool perform without Hocking it up that's worth a lot to me. Now I have to see if upgrading the cutting iron is really worth it.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 6/13/2007 8:03 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 6/13/2007 8:06 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob,
I completely agree with you that such projects can be satisfying in their own right. I've got an old Bailey bench plane I restored a few years ago. It was my first plane and it's still the one I use most often. It was very satisfying when I got those first few whispy curly shavings out of it. For me, it was worth the effort that one time as a hands-on education in what it takes for a plane to do its job, which I believe has improved my ability to use planes in general. I would not undertake such a project again unless I had MUCH more time than money.
I was really just having some mild fun at Steve's expense, by calling him on the implication that you can get a decent plane at a flea market for only $20 and two hours of tuning. I went that route, and the time spent at flea markets (and going to and from them) to find the plane I wanted was probably close to 10-12 hours. Maybe I was just too picky or unlucky.
MikeTo the man with a hammer, all the world is a nail.
Mike,
Ah, so you've slid down a bit on the slippery slope as have I, and now Ryan is heading in that direction. It's all good.
You know, the nicest thing about Knots is that for the most part we are all in here to share our knowledge.
Here's some pics of a project that I did last winter in my shop. It's my first attempt to make a piece with hand tools. I have a long ways to go but I like it and am loving every minute!
RyanC, just some ideas for you to think about for your shop. A solid core door makes a really nice benchtop, and they're generally cheap! You can also make a fairly cheap cabinet out of recycled hardwood flooring too!
And frenchy's shellac finish works quite nice as well.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 6/15/2007 6:15 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
With all that shop talk...I'm cleaning my shop right now, maybe when I get done I'll post a pic just so everyone can see my setup. I should probably go clean it now lol.
Hey Ryan, with your interest in old hand tools, how come you're not a member of the Mid-West Tool Collectors Association? I tried to find you in the directory but couldn't. Their periodical The Gristmill has information about tools that's not published anywhere else. Here's a link if you're interested http://www.mwtca.org
Another one you may be interested in is the Early American Industries Association http://www.eaiainfo.org. Their periodical is called The Chronicle and has more to do with the old ways of working wood rather than the tools themselves. Both organizations are invaluable for old tool nuts like ourselves.
Edited 6/15/2007 11:28 pm ET by mvflaim
I swear if I had a plane for every time someone said that I'd be...well wanting more still I guess. Anyways, I'm not a member because, no money! lol
ah ic...well stay away from lie-nielsen planes then..you'll never have any money with them things...
Got it. I'll remember that. I sure would like a shoulder plane though...
Yeah me too... That one is an exception...that and the handsaws, those are really nice... and the replacement blades that fit Stanley.. those are good too.. oh sh*@% I'm broke!
Ha, I've been looking at woodies alot lately. Trying to find one that's has a number three sized blade (wink wink)
Wow,
I haven't seen a thread take off like this since we discussed Festool.
Well, I think I need to contribute my own not-so-exceptional plane. I bought this thing at my local hardware store (this is a real hardware store, like the ones our grandpas stood around in talking about the weather and the price of seed. It is located in Keller, TX called Mcdonnell Building supply. Amazing selection of good wwing stuff).
I bought it because I needed it, ... right then. I didn't have time to drive across Fort Worth to go to Rocklers or Woodcraft, and I certaintly didn't have the time to order one off Lee Valley's web site. I took it to the shop flattened the sole with a belt sander (metal working type) then used glass and sand paper to smooth it out. I filed the frog thing where the iron sits and smoothed the lever thing that locks the cap down so it would work right. I sharpened the blade using my own special recipie called the "good 'nuff method". So again this is a crappy plane that was sitting in this old hardware store for 10 or more years, with the OEM blade and the very nice plastic handles. Let me tell yall, you just cant turn or carve a handle like these plastic beauties.
In this picture you are looking at what is probably the worst planing wood ever. It is a 100 year old slab of weathered Oak that has that wretched splintery grain which tears out like the hair on a teenage girl with trichotillomania (yea, I had to look that one up to get the spelling right). In this picture you also see very nice curly whisps of this crappy grained Oak that flew out of the throat of that plane like the reciepts from my clip board when I drop it in the Home Depot parking lot on a windy day. In other words this is a great working plane. Emphasis on "working".
Its not pretty, it wasn't expensive, I replaced nothing on it and no "Fine Woodworker" will ever comment on it if they visited my shop. Most because it isn't a Lie Nelson or antique Baily like the one in their garage, and a few..... (a very few) would not comment on it because they would be more interested in what project is on in progress than the machines that I used to make it.
The origional poster (he probably got discusted with us by now and cancelled his Forum account) worked hard to clean up his own not-so-exceptional-plane and he was so pleased with the result that he posted his work to show us his success. It has been a long time for me since I last got that excited over a tool or new router technique. But I do remember it, and I thank the guy who showed me that plane for reminding me that no matter how much I can sell my work for, how nice and inovative my designs are, or how perfect my technique is I am still just a wood worker. And if the truth be told I was actually pretty proud that I was able to get my crappy plane to work so well.
In fact I even started to carve out some handles for it...............Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
Well, I'm impressed. I started with a plane of quality manufacturing and got it to work and you started with that "Made IN England" POS and got it to work. Awesome job!
Hey Mike,
Now I can see it better.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks,
I didn't realize that the image was so big. I lowered the quality, but forgot to change the size.Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
you're right to some degree, but i dont spend hours at flea markets!! we were on a road trip and just happened to stop at one in aberfoyle ontario
there were litererally hundreds of old tools, some salvagable and usefull, lots of garbage
one guy even had a stanley55, complete, all blades and in the wooden box
he wanted a thousand bucks, so its still there!!
Ryan-
That is very nice restoration work. I had a similar project with a $17 (w/shipping) stanley #4. Now it does remarkable work in woods as tough as curly maple.
Personally, it makes me happy to see these old tools brought back to life.
I invested in a Hock blade after all the hard work. I would suggest you do the same when you have some extra $ and start to seek higher performance is difficult woods. The blade and chip breaker are aboud $50 together.
You may also look at Tool for working wood ... they have some really nice ray isles blades for the old stanleys. The Holtey blades are quite nice as well (understatement of the week)
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-RIIRON.XX&Category_Code=TR
Close down the frog, file the mouth even, get a paper thin throat opening, flatten the sole, get a nice blade... yes it's a lot of work but it's all worth it.
50 bucks doesn't seem too bad for increased performance. I might just do that.
Dear Ryan,
I think that it looks great! Where do you plug it in?
Best,
John
I agree, ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs... (aka Charles Stanford, aka Riverprof, etc...) does generate some interesting conversations at his own expense. I look forward to logging on and reading the various conversations. I agree with what I believe his point to be: that our focus should be on what comes out of our shops and not what goes into them.
I think that if he started his own threads regarding these subjects he would get equal response without singling individuals out. He might even find more people to agree with him. Generally, the ratio of people asking about which tools to buy vs. methods, skills, and completed projects seems to be grossly out of line with ideal. If the magazine was only a buyer's guide much fewer would subscribe. It is what it is, however. I find little issue with that.
I would appreciate seeing what personal woodworking accomplishments he is proud of. I think that he's ultimately asking the same of us.
Matt, it's fun sometimes to play the role of the instigator. I have no interest in developing credentials on Knots. My posts are meant to stand on their own, unaided by an attempt to cultivate a posting history that qualifies me as an "expert." Buffoon suits me just fine. I'm not sure how much value a forum really has with an endless string of "me too" posts.
I am serious about helping furnituremakers like Ryan (assuming that's what he wants to do and I don't know that for sure) if they find themselves in need of something that I can stand to do without either permanently or at least for the duration of a project.
At various times in the past few years I've hired helpers, had a few 'apprentices' (for lack of a better term), taught a bit, so I've developed some redundancies that I've yet to relieve myself of - a couple or three copies of the same plane, saw, etc.
I have absolutely no problem with somebody who wants to bootstrap it without any help. And if the bootstrapping turns into an end in itself then so be it. Woodworking tools ARE interesting.
FYI, I have never posted under the handle "RiverProf."
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/15/2007 3:49 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
"I agree with what I believe his point to be: that our focus should be on what comes out of our shops and not what goes into them. "
Gosh, I don't. I think there's room enough on this forum for valid interest in all phases of Woodworking. If the focus is only on what comes out of our shop, then why bother with a "hand tool" forum at all! There is already a forum on "completed projects" so go there.
If your focus is only on product, buy a CNC router, and have fun making screaming clouds of dust. When the dust settles, pick up your pieces, your fingers, your glue and a dead blow hammer and BAM you got product, a quick dunk in poly-urine-thane and you're ready for pretty pictures to impress us all.
For me the process and the tools used are at least as important as the finished product. I enjoy the historical connection I feel when I use old well made tools. I enjoy finding them, learning who made them and when, fixing them up if need be, maintaining them and using them. I enjoy that as much as I enjoy making furniture.
But even if I didn't use them, the history and tradition of hand tools and collecting them as an avocation is a perfectly valid endeavor and I think collectors, and toolmakers have every right to use this public forum as tool "users."
David Carroll
And to expand on your thought:If there wasn't anyone obsessed with tool making, tool rehabilitation, or tool repair, those of us who are obsessed with furniture making to an equal degree would find it much harder to pursue our interests.
Oh sure! That's just great! As if we cavemen hadn't been traumatized and trivialized by Western Civilization enough already, now we've got to accept, without reservation, your forms of hair grooming/maintenance! Well thanks but no thanks, mister! Just strip me of another form of my cultural heritage and identity while you're at it!
WHERE THE HECK IS MY ROAST DUCK AND MANGO SALSA?!?! Am I being served last just because I'm a caveman? Chop chop!
Looks perfect enough for the job it's got to do.
I remember rehabbing my first plane - a sw 5 - more than a decade ago now (doesn't seem that long). It was the best way to learn about planes in my opinion. Cleaning it up, I learned every part intimately. I learned how they fit and worked together. I learned how to adjust them to take nice shavings. And most of all, I made that tool mine in a way that only working on and working with a tool can make it yours. We were ready to do some planing, and have had some good times working on many projects since.
Enjoy.
So I am gathering, on all counts.
J
Ryan,
I have to say "Beautiful Job" and "Very Well Done"
Now there,was that so hard? I think on here,"YES" just giving praise "without" having to give us a piece of their minds or a long winded explanation is hard.
I think more than likely Ryan was just simply was looking for a little praise on a job well done. Again " Let me say straight up; Ryan, You did an excellent job, You should be proud.
Quite personally I don't think he needed to be shown other peoples planes and tool box's to let him know that if he's a good little woodworker and if he's lucky someday if he works really,really hard and practices for many hours he just might be able to reach the level that the person with the well groomed tool box and shop has or think that they have reached. If you are one of these people"and you know who you are" KNOCK IT OFF!!!!!!
I have to say,Just because a person works countless nights and weekends and can make sawdust and has the very best shop money can buy and the shop is so clean that you can eat off from the floor,THESE THINGS DO NOT MAKE HIM OR HER A WOODWORKER!!!!Auction calendars are full of these kind of woodworkers selling out because the'v taken up other interest. They've built the elaborate shops,they have every tool known to man, But now they just can't do what some can,"Be Creative"
I'ts a natural thing,either a person has it or they don't. I've seen some people work very hard for years striving to cut and shape wood into whatever it was that they thought they were creating at the time. They simply no matter how hard they tried just wasn't any good at what they were trying to accomplish. Sure the project looks pretty darn impressive (it's what some of us
like to call a 20 footer) it looks real good at a distance but if you look fairly close you can see where they left it "good enough"
On the other hand I've seen people that just started out(kids in high school shop class mainly along with quite a few older folks) that's used a cheap carving chisel like some kind of magical wand because in there hands they make it look so easy, ;like a person with the natural ability to conduct an orchestra ,because they had a natural ability to do what others only can hope and strive to be, "A Natural" These are the people that make it look so easy,("Their not in the 20 footer club"),when you get up close to their project,Its a thing of beauty and perfection. These are the people that don't need as much practice as the majority of us do.
I'm not trying to put anyone down or put anyone in their place alls I'm trying to say is just give a person the cudo's that they deserve, period.
Can't we all just get along??????
Oh yea before I forget, Just to let you all know,Personally I'm not a natural, I try hard every day to do the best job that I can; but like I said above, If you get up real close......................Well you get the idea. "Yes" It's true I fall into the,I do the best that I can club but for some reason I just can't ever reach that perfection status.
I can assure you all though I'll never stop trying.
Again, "Ryan; Good Job, And I truly hope your the real deal...................."A Natural"
Sincerely,
Jim at Clark Customs
Hi Jim,
Thanks for just giving Ryan a little praise, without having to give us a piece of your mind, or a long winded explanation.
Snort! Haha
Ray
You are an absolute gem. God love 'ya.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Since you guys are being so gosh darn generous I found some chisels you could all chip in and buy me (wink wink)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220123069454&rd=1&rd=1
I'd buy them for you but the guy wants too much for shipping : )
Dang..
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