Replies

1. 
   troys | Nov 04, 2009 04:43am | #1

   I have Matsamura blue steel Japanese Chisels that I bought from the Japan Woodworker and have been pleased with them, they take a very sharp edge and feel good in my hand. I do think there are a lot of Japanese chisels on the market and I tend to think the very cheep ones are probably not as good as the more pricey ones but I don't think you need to go overboard with them either. Anyway good luck

   Troy

2. 
   roc | Nov 04, 2009 07:16am | #2

   Hi Julian,

   I have experience with the inexpensive ones up through this guy

   http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=05%2E308%2E51&dept_id=12801

   I didn't pay quite that much and mine is ~ 32 mm but the price was breath taking.

   Worth it though. I didn't fully appreciate it until I started making my work bench with very large dove tails etc.

   But. I still had to put a steeper micro bevel on the blade to keep a long lasting edge while working purple heart. On some of the other chisels you mention I have also had good luck keeping an edge for a longer time by steepening the bevel.

   When you can swing the higher price Japanese chisels I DO recommend them but try a steeper angle on what you have and I bet you can be happy with them.

   roc

   Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

   
   

   ---

   Edited 11/3/2009 11:17 pm by roc

3. 
   hammer1 | Nov 04, 2009 04:44pm | #3

   I bought some Sorby's a while ago. They come with a 22+- degree bevel. I honed them up at that bevel and with the first cut, the edge folded. I wasn't happy. I contacted the supplier and Sorby. They both told me that the chisels needed to be sharpened at 30-35 degrees, the 22 was the primary bevel and I needed a secondary bevel. I did as they recommended. They said if I had bought the large set, it would have come with these sharpening instructions. The difference in edge holding ability is night and day. I found it to be the same with all of my Sheffield steel chisels, Hamlet, Blue Chips, etc.

   I wanted to use some of my chisels for paring work and also wanted a low angle bevel for that work. Nothing I owned, including old laminated chisels would hold up at that low bevel. Strange that my Stanley low angle block plane blade will hold a 22 degree sharpening through abuse. The sad part is that my inexpensive Blue chips are every bit the equal of the expensive Sorby's when honed to the secondary bevel. Try honing to these secondary bevels. It will increase the edge holding ability ten fold.

   In talking with Lee of The Best Things, he suggested that the Blue Spruce chisels might allow me to use the low angle, those and a couple of vintage brand chisels, one being Swedish. I'm not willing to pay the price for the Blue Spruce, I don't like the handles and I can't buy just one to try. I've been out bid on Ebay for some of the ones I want to try. The 30 degree secondary bevel has made such a change in the chisels I own, I haven't been looking very hard, lately.

   Picture of the folded Sorby edge at the low angle.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

   
1. 
   Eef | Nov 04, 2009 10:28pm | #6

   hey hammer,
   in no way am i wanting to bemoan blue spruce. the first time i used one on hardwood, QS red oak, the edge folded and after that i only use them on softer woods. perhaps a steeper bevel is called for on the blue spruce?
   eef

1. 
   Jimurock | Nov 05, 2009 12:01am | #7

   Interesting.  Was this a bench chisel or a dovetail chisel?  They both come at 30 Deg. but one's supposed to be tougher than the other.

   Jim

1. 
   Eef | Nov 05, 2009 12:24am | #8

   hey jim,
   it's the dovetail set, my wife got them for me couple years back. dave at blue spruce is good to deal with. he even switched out the coco-bolo handles for some flamey maple ones. the beveled sides of the dovetail chisels came very sharp! i had to run a stone down them after cutting my right index finger rather deeply. the two types may both be 30deg but is the steel of the bench chisel thicker?
   eef

1. 
   Jimurock | Nov 05, 2009 02:34am | #11

   I only have BS paring chisels, but the bench set is advertised as for heavy use; must be thicker?.  It wasn't around when I bought my LNs, and I was leery of the dovetail chisels meant primarily for paring, or a light tap.  Might just be me, but I give chisels a fairly hefty whack when I'm doing half-blind dovetails.  I love the BS paring chisels, but they're so long and thin that you couldn't mistake them for anything else.  Pretty hard to abuse the edge when you only pare.

   Cheers, Jim

2. 
   roc | Nov 05, 2009 05:48am | #13

   >beveled sides of the dovetail chisels came very sharp! <That is an example of how the Japanese craftsmanship shines through. Even the inexpensive ~$40 chisels have good attention to detail. There is just more awareness of detail in the culture in general I think.I am surprised to hear about the Blue Spruce problem but then again not surprised.The inexpensive Japanese chisels are a great value. I understand some look a likes are made in other parts of the world now. Be afraid ! Be very afraid !rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

2. 
   JulianBE | Nov 05, 2009 03:16am | #12

   Well, thank you all for these very helpful suggestions. I'll raise the secondary bevel angle and see how things go. It's always nice to rediscover something that one already has.

3. 
   WillGeorge | Nov 05, 2009 06:31pm | #16

   They both told me that the chisels needed to be sharpened at 30-35 degrees, the 22 was the primary bevel and I needed a secondary bevel....

   Far from any sort of expert on chisels but I learned the hard way. I was grinding at about 35 degrees. Worked OK but the edge gave up quickly.

   I knew a guy who was using a curved Slick. A LARGE chisel with a long handle. Maybe about 3 inches wide with a small radius. That tool was SHARP! I recall he said it was a tool he bought from Europe. Swiss or German? Where from I do not know the exact place.

   I knew he could cut away all day with it with little fussing around to sharpen. I have watched him carve! He told me he used a primary angle of 20 degrees and he used a commercial grade of fine oil and special ground (for the radius) black and white Arkansas (two different stones) to hone it. I asked what micro bevel. He just shrugged his shoulders and said I just do it?

   He said he mostly worked with Douglas Fir for trade/work and he was a Timber Framer that were made for 'us' common folks and for some very, very expensive houses.

   I sure wish he was still alive so I could send a picture of his tools. He had a collection of framing chisels you would not believe. He even had some that fit a pneumatic hand held gun for rough cutting. He said it was faster than sawing away wood for some joints. I have no idea. He lived alone and I have no idea where the tools went.

   The last time I saw him, maybe 10 years ago, he was making a Dugout boat from some old growth Redwood timber he had shipped to Chicago. That timber was about 20 feet long and about 5 X 5 feet square.

   He ALMOST got it finished. What I found amazing is that his work (That I saw) was made with this huge curved Slick. If needed, he could make that Slick make the wood look like it went through a planner.

   OK, I will finish soon...

   I met him way before 9/11 on a flight to Mexico. He had this thing that looked like a Long Gun Case.. He let me look inside. Several things with long handles that I thought were chisels but had no idea they came that big.. He left his card and I called him a few months later.

   I was not fond of traveling the world to feed my family. I loved my job though. I met many wonderful folks on the seat next to me.

    

    

    

    

1. 
   jonnieboy | Nov 07, 2009 07:32am | #17

   Will,

   That's a great story. Thanks.

   -jonnieboy

4. 
   DonStephan | Nov 04, 2009 05:02pm | #4

   I'd suggest contacting the supplier or the manufacturer.  Sorby is considered a good tool maker and I'd expect they would take your problem very seriously and want to try to get corrected.  At the same time, increasing the bevel angle as suggested may resolve the issue.  Good luck.

5. 
   bcool | Nov 04, 2009 05:11pm | #5

   Steeper angle for hardwoods, shallow angle for softwoods.

6. 
   Jfrostjr | Nov 05, 2009 12:35am | #9

   The Japanese chisels I purchased do seem to hold an edge quite well however, I find those chisels with an iron band on the handle to be uncomfortable in my hand.

   Frosty

   “If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert,
   in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand.”

   Milton Friedman

1. 
   roc | Nov 05, 2009 06:13am | #14

   > chisels with an iron band on the handle to be uncomfortable in my hand.<If it is a deal where the handles are too short or too small in diameter you mite consider replacing the handle. Toshio in this book goes into how to get the old handles off and how to put on the new ones.http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Woodworking-Tools-Tradition-Spirit/dp/0941936465/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257389660&sr=1-1If the metal band is the problem you probably already know the wood should be cut so it is above the top of the band and peened over while wet. Maybe a touch on the grinder to take off any sharp edge around the band.Note the "slicks" and paring chisels don't have bands so you can push with a palm.http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=10%2E307%2E24&dept_id=12796And thesehttp://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=07.060.618&dept_id=12716http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=06.003.300&dept_id=12708Nice stuff but kind of thick(what I always say is : Any tool is just a blank. Take it home and make it into something useful to you.)rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

1. 
   Jfrostjr | Nov 05, 2009 05:08pm | #15

   My problem was solved last Christmas - my wife gave me a set of L-N chisels. I love the way they handle and fit my hand. I still have the Japanese chisels for the 'harder whacking'.Frosty“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert,
   in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand.” Milton Friedman

7. 
   BG | Nov 05, 2009 12:59am | #10

   JulianBE,

   My experience has been almost identical to Hammer's. I use them exclusively now for paring and very light taping(like a hinge mortise). I really enjoy the feel of them. I also bought some Japanese chisels at Woodcraft that are terrific for chopping and hold an edge forever...but hurt in the hands. Between the two, I'm very content when making dovetails. I use old firmers for mortise work.