Replies

1. 
   JeffHeath | May 15, 2007 12:20am | #1

   Hey, Lee

   Twice in one day.......SCARY!   I have a set of Nishiki dovetail chisels.  You can check them out at http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com to compare to what you are looking at.  With Japanese chisels, the steel used is what determines the strength, or whackability (a new word!) when chopping.  Also, the bevel grind plays a large part.  If they are ground at 30° or 35°, then they are for chopping.  Most of the paring chisels will be ground at 20°.  Knowing the bevel angle will tell you what they were intended or.

   Having the hoops set is a nice time saver.  It took a few hours for me to set mine.

   Jeff

1. 
   BOBABEUI | May 16, 2007 05:11am | #10

   Jeff,

   How do you like the Nishiki dovetail chisels? Do you own the regular or Kamaji model?

    

    

1. 
   JeffHeath | May 16, 2007 05:24am | #11

   I have the Kamaji steel chisels.  They are pretty, and they are excellent quality chisels.  But, they also cost $800.00, and quite honestly, are used sparingly since I have acquired the LN bench and paring chisel sets.  I pretty much only use them when dovetailing, and that is it.  For general bench work, the LN's are always on my bench.  Perhaps one could say that they were an unnecessary purchase, but at the time I HAD to have them!

   Jeff

    

1. 
   BOBABEUI | May 16, 2007 03:10pm | #12

   Jeff,

   Ah we all are guilty of purchasing something we REALLY did not need (hope the LOML is not listening). Really fabulous looking chisels, glad to know they work as well as they look. 

2. 
   Gene_DiNardo | May 15, 2007 05:31am | #2

   Hey Lee,

   First , If a Japanese chisel is hooped it is intended for striking.

   If there is no hoop it is a "push"(paring) chisel.  The "Dovetail" style is so you can chop or pare into acute angles in joinery without damaging the adjacent face of the joinery element.

   On true Japanese chisels the handles(striking and paring) are a combination

   socket/tang chisel. The upper socket is actually a seperate piece. These can be tricky to rehandle properly. The hole in the handle must be such that it tightens on the tang at the same time the taper tightens in the blades socket.

   The bevel depends on the intended use, I like 35+ for chopping and 25+ for paring.

   I wont elaborate on the charachteristics of white or blue steels(japan woodworker catalog or web site will fill you in enough) but I prefer blue for dovetail chisels and white for paring.

   I have a couple of sets of each and several individual japanese chisels and love them.

   I had the same feeling as you about my Lie Nielsons and made new push style handles for them however they are true socket type chisels.

   If you have any specific questions about the Japanese chisels I will try to help you based on my opinion and experience.                                                                                 

   Gene

1. 
   mapleman | May 15, 2007 08:04am | #3

   Jeff/Gene,

   Thanks for the insight, guys. The two of you seem to be well versed in  japanese chisels. I will check tomorrow, but I would guess the bevel on this chisel is in the 30 degree neighborhood. I will try it out chopping and paring, see which way I like it best. If the paring wins out, I will change the bevel and round over the end of the handle to make it a little more comfortable. I'm not particularly proficient at hand cutting dovetails yet, so I am feeling around in the dark (so to speak) for the best way to do things.

   Thanks,

   Lee

3. 
   derekcohen | May 15, 2007 09:20am | #4

   Lee

   I have a number of Japanese chisels, which include Koyamaichi, Matsumura and Iyoroi bench, dovetail and paring types. With 30 degree bevels, I prefer using these in hardwood, reserving my 20 degree-bevelled Bergs as purer paring chisels.

   View Image

   BUT, if you are looking for chisels for paring dovetail (as opposed to striking them - again, I use the Japanese chisels for this task), then the BEST dovetail/detail chisels I have come across are those made by Dave Jeske at Blue Spruce. They are wonderfully balanced and are hollow ground at the sidesfor increased side penetration into the sidewalls angles. The only other chisel that comes close is the LN, and they rate second to the BS.

   View Image

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

1. 
   mapleman | May 15, 2007 07:08pm | #5

   Hi Derek,

   Thanks for the info. I did look at the Blue Spruce, but wasn't sure if the sides were configured to give as much clearance as the japanese LV chisels, which are almost triangular in cross section. I will give them a closer look - maybe instead of having one tool try to do everything, I should have seperate tools for paring and chopping. I never realized until this thread that the bevel angle affects how the chisel works.

   An unrelated question, how do you post your photos on your replies without them having to be "opened" as an attachment? Been meaning to ask that for a long time.

   Lee

1. 
   derekcohen | May 15, 2007 07:30pm | #6

   I did look at the Blue Spruce, but wasn't sure if the sides were configured to give as much clearance as the japanese LV chisels, which are almost triangular in cross section.

   Lee, don't be fooled by the apparent shallow side walls of Japanese dovetail chisels. They are not a lot different from paring chisels (at best) or bench chisels (at worst). Few chisels really offer narrow/sharp side walls that permit one to pare into the sidewall of a dovetail. The BS are the best, with LN very close behind. I prefer the feel of the BS.

   What some do is modify chisels by grinding away the sides to get this area as low as possible.

   Here are a couple of Matsumura dovetail chisels against bench chisels. You can se that they are not going anywhere as is. I later ground the sides of these dovetails to a sharp side.

   View Image

   how do you post your photos on your replies without them having to be "opened" as an attachment?

   Just paste it from an image on a website. I open images in Photobucket, or copy one on another website, and then paste in here. I discovered this one day by chance.

   Another look at the Blue Spruce..

   View Image

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

2. 
   mwenz | May 15, 2007 07:58pm | #7

   Hi Lee,

   Here's a closer look at the business end of a Blue Spruce 1/4" chisel:

   View Image

   You can see the sides go right down to the back. Excellent chisels for DTs. Holds an edge better than any other chisel I have for such work.

   Take care, Mike

1. 
   mapleman | May 15, 2007 11:46pm | #9

   Mike,

   That's a great photo. The pics on the BS web site don't do these justice - I just may have to get my hands on some of these.

   P.S. - I have been meaning to send you a saw-related email. I will do that today, so please be on the lookout for it.

   Thanks,

   Lee

4. 
   61A | May 15, 2007 08:24pm | #8

   I have been using Oire Nomi Japanese chisels for a number of years now , purchased from Axminster Tools here in the UK, and never use anything else. They hold a fantastic edge and the dovetail chisel really helps getting into those awkward corners. Working in predominately English Oak and Elm and even a recent project in Teak didn't dull their edge.

   I use a Tormek grinder for initial grinding or remedial work and polish the edge and backs to a mirror finish using waterstones. They do take a bit of work initially to set up but in the long run you spend a lot less time sharpening. Another benefit I have found is using a Japanese metal hammer delivers a more controllable blow that my old mallet.

   One word of warning, when I first sharpened them I managed to create a razor sharp edge on the sides where I had polished the backs so much. I didn't realise what I had done until I had a red stain on the work piece, I never felt a thing !!!

   Julian