Replies

1. 
   John_D | Mar 11, 2006 12:45am | #1

   Using is more interesting than having.  IMHO there is much more expertise available (here, in books, and in classes and clubs) to help one use a Western plane, so since I live here I chose the tools most often used here.  Also, the other items I have (workbench, vises, etc.) are optimized for Western-style tools, though I do use a Japanese dovetail saw.  And I've bought several books and videos on planing that have helped me immensely.

   That said, if you're a guy who likes to chart his own course and is willing to work a little harder to get the information you need, there's no doubt that equivalently great work can be done with either set of tools.

   You've also ignored a third alternative, wooden planes in the western style, which you might also want to look into.

   You might be disappointed if you choose the Japanese style plane simply to save a few dollars, though.

   My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
2. 
   pzgren | Mar 11, 2006 01:27am | #2

     Before you make a decision, I would recommend that you read a couple of books on both Japanese and Western planes (if you haven't already done so). Toshio Odate's book, Japanese Woodworking Tools: Their Tradition, Spirit, and Use, and a book called The Care and Use of Japanese Woodworking Tools (or something very similar to that -- I don't have the book in front of me right now) are pretty good for Japanese tools and planes. For Western style, I'd recommend Garrett Hack's The Handplane Book and one (or more) of these three: Aldren Watson's Hand Tools: Their Ways and Workings, Peter Korn's The Woodworker's Guide to Hand Tools, or Andy Rae's Choosing and Using Hand Tools; all three have good hand plane sections.

   <<Also, the cost of a Japanese plane is significantly less than a similarly sized Lie-Nielsen, which is a bit of a consideration. >>

     While the cost of a "mass-market" Japanese plane is less than some of the LNs, if you buy comparable quality, you find that Japanese planes are as expensive or more expensive than the equivalent LNs. They also require significantly more effort and work to "set up" before use. If you are looking for a "ready to go out of the box" plane, then a Japanese plane is probably not what you want.

     One thing that you will quickly discover is that you get what you pay for. If you decide to go with Western metal planes, buy either LN, LV, or Clifton, or go for vintage (pre-WWII) Stanley, Millers Falls, Sargent, etc. IMO, don't bother with modern Stanley, Groz, Anant, etc. -- they require more tuning than they're worth, and for all your work and effort, you will still end up with a mediocre plane, at best.

     Another consideration is what type of woodworking are you going to do, and what kind of wood do you expect to be using, in the main? If mainly soft woods, then Japanese planes make good sense; for hard wood, somewhat less good sense (this is not to say that Japanese planes won't work on hard woods -- they do -- just that they tend to be more oriented toward softer woods). If you are going to be using mainly domestic hard woods, then Western style planes are probably a better bet.

     If you are really set on using wooden planes, then you might also consider either new or vintage Western wooden planes. Clark & Williams, Steve Knight, and ECE all make excellent modern wooden hand planes.

   <<Having never actually laid hands on either, if the set up process is different between the two, I won't have to "unlearn" any ingrained habits.>>

     The set up process for both are the same, in the sense that you are tuning the plane -- and generally the same parts of the plane -- prior to using it. However, the set-up mechanics and specific goals differ considerably. See the above-referenced books for details.

     I have used both Japanese style and Western planes. My preference is for the Western style (nothing "wrong" with Japanese planes, just personal preference).

     Reading between the lines of your post, I gather that you have relatively little or no previous woodworking experience. If so (and even if not so), then I highly recommend that you buy a GOOD QUALITY hand plane as your first one, so that you have a solid base line on which to judge the quality and function of the rest of your plane acquisitions. A couple of good choices for a first plane would be either a LN adjustable mouth low angle block plane or a LN bronze #4. The LA AM block plane is probably the most versatile plane made. Both of these planes together will take care of about 85% of your common planing needs. Any plane you buy from LN should be ready to plane whisper-thin shavings right out of the box; their quality control is very good, but if not, take/send it back for a replacement.

     Others will recommend the LV or the Clifton. I have no personal experience with either, except for Clifton's tiny (#400) shoulder plane -- it's superb! However, I have used some of LV's other tools; all quite good, and their customer service is superb, as is LN's.

     Here are some hand woodworking tool links that you might find useful:

   http://www.astragalpress.com/

   http://www.cambiumbooks.com/

   http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/en.html

   http://www.norsewoodsmith.com/

   http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To.htm

   http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html

   http://www.amgron.clara.net/index.htm

   http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/

   http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html

   http://www.thebestthings.com/index.html

   http://www.jonzimmersantiquetools.com/index.html

   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/

   http://www.leevalley.com/home.aspx

   http://www.woodcraft.com/

     Good luck and have fun!

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/10/2006 5:31 pm by pzgren

1. 
   wilburpan | Mar 13, 2006 05:41am | #4

   Thanks for the info and links. I've been doing more research, and I realize that by going the Japanese plane route, I won't be getting the "out of the box" experience, but that's actually not a big issue for me. My wife and I do a lot of cooking, and I have a lot of sharpening experience with kitchen knives, so setting up a plane is not completely scary for me.The way I see it, being a beginner, I can use the Lie-Nielsen as a backup if my Japanese plane experience doesn't work out, but if I go the Lie-Nielsen route up front, it will probably go so well that it may be a while before I actually get around to trying out a Japanese plane, in which case I'll have to either "unlearn" skills or at the least have to make a transition over to Japanese planes.Having said that, any recommendations for a good quality Japanese plane?

3. 
   Troy | Mar 11, 2006 10:03pm | #3

   If you have the time and you are interested in a wooden plane you might also consider making a Kernov style wood plane. I just made two of them and although they are not ready to photograph they work really well. I used a Ron Hock blade and you can use the same blade in any number of plane bodys as well as having fun using different woods to make your plane. That being said the Lie Neilsen planes are a joy to use and other than a little bit of sharpening they are ready to go right out of the box.

   Have fun.

4. 
   pqken | Mar 16, 2006 10:29am | #5

   I use Japanese planes 80% of the time. What I like about them is the simplicity, the pulling action, it seems to give me more control on the cut, and the heavier blade, it reduces chatter. The maintenance is greater with a wooden plane, smoothing and flattening the belly. Another pro or con is that a blade will outlast the body or dai as it is called so in time you buy another dai and fit the blade to it.

   What kind to buy? The more expensive ones (at least here in Japan) have hand forged blades. And these can get real expensive. And then you go down the line. I'd stay away from a thin blade, like the type with the replaceable blades where you screw in a new blade on a non replaceable iron. Although they are very sharp they don't have the heft to reduce chatter. But as a block plane they seem to work well.

   The "common plane" comes in different widths. The consideration here is what you're going to use it for. If you have large hands a wider dai may be more comfortable when flattening a board, I find my fingers dragging when using a thinner dai.

   Hope this helps.

1. 
   heffesan | Mar 19, 2006 03:53pm | #6

   http://www.ibiblio.org/japanwood/phpBB2/

   this is the login page for people who like and use Japanese tools.

   though it has only less than 300 members the knowledge is quite deep and people are very helpfull.

   one member recently recommended the Gordon planes made in Australia as a reasonable substitute to midgrade japanese planes. the blade was reverseable to provide a scraping action in tough woods.

   jeff stafford

   indianapolis

1. 
   pqken | Mar 19, 2006 07:10pm | #7

   Thanks for that...pqken