Replies

1. 
   bszydlo | May 20, 2003 02:02pm | #1

   Jd, I have owned the Jet cabinet saw for over a year and am very happy with it.  I had one minor problem with the locking knob on the height adjustment mechanism and customer service was excellent.  Regarding the fence, prior to owning the Jet I had the Biesmeyer standard (not the commercial) and have found the Jet fence to be just as good.  I don't know how the fence would compare to the higher priced Biesmeyer though.

   Like you, I am a hobbyist woodworker who does occassional paying jobs and have found this saw to be a good value.  If you have any questions please feel free to email me off forum.

   Bil

1. 
   rmcjh | May 23, 2003 03:44pm | #22

   I have had my saw for just under 1-year and have had fence alignment problems.  Jet  sent me a 2nd fence since the first one was out of tolerance, it varied from -.004" to +.006" in numerous spots along the surface.  Unfortunately, the 2nd is not better than the first.  I removed the plastic sides and checked the metal surface of the fence and it varies about the same as with the plastic surface installed.  I think that's where their problem is or at least starts.

   The fact that the surface isn't consistent, that is if it were just out of tolerance in one location, makes it difficult to adjust it in reference to the blade.   If I set the fence to be parallel with the blade at its mid point, the fence would gap .010" or better at the rear of the blade and would be several thousands tight when feeding into the blade.

   Having owned a Bessy in the past, I find that the Jet cannot compare with it as far as flatness is concerned.   The saw itself is great, they just need to improve the fence.

   Roger

1. 
   LeeTree | May 23, 2003 04:15pm | #23

   Roger,

   Not to be too much of a smart @ss, but we are working with wood here. 1/100 of an inch is hardly visible to the eye, and certainly the couple of thousands are invisible to normal humans. I can understand the need for tight tolerance in metalwork or splitting the atom. I know that if you add up several peices that may be several hundreds, still this is nothing.

   My wife is the world's pickiest human, and while I am unhappy with a 32nd of gap, she does not even notice.

   I personally do not worry about such little things as I would rather be making sawdust. Especially since the worlds pickiest human doesn't notice.

   I still love my Jet, and would buy again.

   - lee -

1. 
   JDorn | May 23, 2003 05:53pm | #24

   LTannen, i agree, if i can make cuts within 1/100th of an inch (.01) then they match up plenty well enough to be unseen by the eye.  I've never quite understood why people preach on and on about having accuracy within .001-.002 of an inch, you're eye will never notice it and it certainly won't make that much difference in a joint.

   JD

   Edited 5/23/2003 12:25:43 PM ET by JDorn

2. 
   BG | May 23, 2003 08:02pm | #25

   Lee,

   What Roger may be pointing out is the same problem I have with my Grizzly fense.  Like the Jet, it's a Bies clone with a plastic face.  My variances run in the 3-4 thousands range like Rogers.  The problem is not the dimensions it's the burning ...on many pieces..especially if the wood is inclined to burning.  I have not taken off the plastic to see if the problem is in the metal or just the plastic.  Also, I hit the piece with a smoother anyway...but the smell and the thought of less than perfect is annoying. 

1. 
   LeeTree | May 23, 2003 10:44pm | #26

   I guess I am like you. I always plan on jointing, smoothing or sanding edges prior to putting to use. On my Jet, I sometimes get a little burning (rarely), but I figure it is all part of the process. My point was, to not sweat the small stuff (or really smal stuff in this case).

   - lee -

3. 
   rmcjh | May 30, 2003 03:25pm | #27

   It is quite evident that you missed the point entirely.  Also, it is you that asked for opinions regarding the pluses or short-comings of the saw, if you cannot accept opinions in the frame in which they are given, then you should not ask for them.

   No need to respond to this, case closed.

   Roger

1. 
   LeeTree | May 30, 2003 04:23pm | #28

   Roger,

   Please do let me respond. I am not offended. Please let me point out to you that it was not me who asked for opinions. I was just like you, voiceing my opinion of my Jet.

   I was also only pointing out that in my opinion as a woodworker, worrying about such small differences, would take away my enjoyment of what I was doing. I am not trying to influence, or insult you, just pointing out how I feel.

   I hope your day is a great one. Take care.

   - lee -

2. 
   JDorn | May 30, 2003 05:50pm | #29

   Yikes, i understand where you are coming from I just agree with Tannen.  If i got fed up every time i had 3 thousands of an inch of play in a joint i'd probably never go out into the shop again, it'll be years before i'm good enough at this to be able to achieve such levels of perfection.  Trust me, i'm using a benchtop saw right now, where accuracy is measured in 32nds not 1000ths :)

   Thanks for the information about tolerances though, i'll take it into consideration.  I did talk to the guys in my local hardwood supply store and they acutally have an Xacta saw in back that they use every day, and the owner has one at home.  He like you, wasn't happy with the fence, but more because it rubbed on the rails and chipped the paint, so he replaced it with a used one from a PM66.

   I figure if the saw is good I can always buy a different set of rails if i find out that the level of accuracy isn't to my liking, and i'll still spend less than i would for a brand new PM66.

   JD

3. 
   JeffKurtz | May 30, 2003 10:15pm | #31

   While we're on the subject of 1/100s and 1/1000s of an inch, let me again pose a question I raised about a year ago.

   How does one measure a thousandth of an inch?  I own several good rulers, but the best is marked to only 1/64th of an inch and I find those markings too small to be usable.

   (BTW JD, except for the locking cam, the Xacta Fence II never comes in direct contact with the rails.)

   Jeff

   Edited 5/30/2003 3:18:06 PM ET by Jeff K

4. 
   jimmyk | May 30, 2003 10:33pm | #32

   Measure with dial caliper, micrometer, dial indicator, gage pins and/or blocks.

5. 
   JeffKurtz | May 31, 2003 01:05am | #33

   Perhaps I should qualify my question by adding the word "why".  I understand the need for accuracy when setting up machinery, but, in the case of a table saw, is there any need for the fence face to be flat, or even square for that matter, within thousandths of an inch?  (I mention machinery since to aim for such tolerances with wood is impossible.  Wood that measures "x" today will not measure the same tomorrow.)

   Can't imagine that any production saw will run true to such tolerances, especially at the teeth.  Furthermore, one also has to bring blade drift into the equation.  (No blade will cut perfectly straight.)

   Perhaps to ask the question in still another way, is there any need to set up a saw to hundredths or thousandths of an inch accuracy, or is it more a case of boys playing with toys? (Not that I have any problem with that at all...)

   Jeff

6. 
   jimmyk | May 31, 2003 01:32am | #34

   Well, it all depends on how fine you want your fine woodworking to look. I use my finely tuned table saw to cut through dove tails and tenons that need to fit very accurately with the mating part (+-.005) or the joint will be greatly weakened and/or ugly as the gap gets larger. I also use my table saw to edge joint my boards before gluing them into panels. A fence that isn't precisely flat will not give a flat glue joint and I'll have the same issues as noted above, plus an inaccurate set up will often cause burning of the wood, and even kick back. Same accuracy should apply to dadoes and grooves; they're weak if they're loose...and ugly.

   I check the run out of every rip blade I use and if it's more than .005", I set it aside for "junk ripping". I set my saw blade parallel to the table with a Starret machinist square. I then set the miter gage perpendicular using that same precision square. I often confirm that the miter slot is parallel with the blade by using a dial indicator clamped to the miter gage and pointing at the side of the blade. Last, I set the rip fence parallel with the blade, using the worse run out tooth to set the fence front and back.

   This is how I was taught in my fine woodworking classes by my fine woodworking teachers. If I wanted my work to look like a production shop made it, or if I cared less about my tolerances, I'd own a cheap $300 contractor saw instead.

7. 
   JeffKurtz | May 31, 2003 03:47pm | #35

   Well, it all depends on how fine you want your fine woodworking to look. I use my finely tuned table saw to cut through dove tails and tenons that need to fit very accurately with the mating part (+-.005) or the joint will be greatly weakened and/or ugly as the gap gets larger.

   Please don't think I'm incorrigible or argumentative, because I'm quite serious about this.

   If such measured accuracy is necessary for the construction of fine furniture, what does that say about the work of masters such as Krevnov or Goddard whose dovetails are/were all cut by hand?  I doubt they measure(d) their work to such tolerances, nor would their work stand against such precise standards.

   Isn't it enough to say, that in the case of a dovetail, or dado, or tenon, that the joint must fit "snugly"?

8. 
   jimmyk | May 31, 2003 06:30pm | #36

   Oh, I don't think you're arguing at all. I don't have the time or patience or skill to be as good as Krevnov or Goddard at using a dove tail saw or finely tuned hand plane. I rely mostly on the accuracy of my machinery. If I have 16 drawer sides to do with 8 dove tails to do on each side, that's 128 dove tails! I can probably cut them a lot faster with the table saw and/or router jig than those masters can...and still not have a sloppy "production" appearance.

   EDIT:

   "Isn't it enough to say, that in the case of a dovetail, or dado, or tenon, that the joint must fit "snugly"?"

   Yes. But how do you get the 8 drawers to all fit snugly with each other (aside from making matched sets) without precision? Every single piece will have to be machined to precise tolerances (+-.005) in order to make them interchangeable for final assembly. Otherwise, you'll spend a lot of time trying to mix and match parts until you find (hopefully) 8 complete sets that fit each other. Naturally, precision isn't that important when you're making one or two of something.

   Edited 5/31/2003 11:36:08 AM ET by molten

9. 
   JeffKurtz | Jun 02, 2003 10:09pm | #38

   Molten and John,

   Guess we're at a bit of a crossroads here since it seems we're talking about two very different approaches to woodworking - yours very accurate, but, to me, using a process more mechanical than human.  My approach is very human, and being so, lacks the precision and accuracy of a more mechanical approach.  (Then again, maybe it's just that I enjoy fitting up a joint with a chisel or block plane.)

   I suppose what is important is that the end product is both well made and attractive - something that many of the big manufacturers show an inability or unwillingness to do.  (If you think I'm overstating that point a bit, just go to any "fine furniture store", and look at even their "top of the line" furniture.  You'll find poor joinery - some even having filled joints, dipped finishes, an almost exclusive use of flat sawn lumber, and 5 figure price tags.)

   Jeff

   BTW  If anyone else is following this, the average human hair is 1/1000" in diameter.  Molten and John are talking about 5/1000" tolerances.  That's accuracy.

10. 
    jimmyk | Jun 02, 2003 10:23pm | #39

    Actually, human hairs usually measure .002" to .004"...but who's counting. You're right about everything you've said, especially about the "top of the line" production furniture!

11. 
    JohnWW | May 31, 2003 09:43pm | #37

    Jeff,

    Depending on the joinery, a few thousandths error in each joint can quickly add up to some major misalignments when the components are assembled.  The catch-all phrase for this problem is "accumulating errors" and they are the cause of almost all the fitting problems in  furniture making.

    For instance: picture building a simple square frame with butt joints at the corners.  Each side is three feet long and the boards are two inches wide.  Now suppose the ends of the boards weren't cut exactly square, but are off by .005 inch across the 2 inch width of the end of the board, instead of 90 degrees, the corner is 90 and a tiny fraction of a degree. 

    When the frame is assembled, that slight misalignment at each corner, magnified by the length of the the sides will leave you with a gap at the last joint of over 5/16ths of an inch.  Now, if in addition to the corners not being square, maybe the frame pieces also weren't quite straight and maybe not quite square in their cross section and suddenly the frame won't go together without major gaps and twisting.  Now try to fit that frame onto the face of a carcass that has it's own misalignments and the piece starts to look badly hacked, and that's without adding doors and drawers yet.

    The above comments apply to work being done with machinery, where the major advantage of a well tuned machine is the ability to create near perfectly dimensioned stock and tight joints right off the machine. 

    Working with hand tools is a whole different game, each piece and joint can be finessed with planes and chisel work to mate perfectly even when everything isn't perfectly square.  Trying to correct bad machine work by hand planing is inefficient and often impossible, you just start chasing the errors from joint to joint.

    I keep my power tools tuned very tightly and check them frequently as I work.  As a result, I almost never have to hand trim to get airtight joints and square assemblies.  Get a good machinist's square to test your other tools.  Most squares made for woodworking, including the expensive brass and rosewood ones, are almost always inaccurate, if not when new, at least after they've been banging around for a while.  My best square stays in a drawer and is only brought out to check my "working" squares.

    You are correct in your statement that wood changes in dimension, and more importantly, shape, with gains and losses in moisture.  The solution is to cut and assemble the components in a relatively short time span.  I try not to leave finished dimension stock sit overnight if at all possible.  In my shop once a joint is cut it's assembled.  Any finished pieces that can't be used right away get stored in plastic trash bags until they can be assembled. 

    John

    Edited 5/31/2003 2:44:04 PM ET by JohnW

    Edited 5/31/2003 2:44:37 PM ET by JohnW

    Edited 5/31/2003 4:35:39 PM ET by JohnW

2. 
   Elcoholic | May 30, 2003 06:02pm | #30

   I had the same problem with my Exacta-Fence as well.  Very slight, I didn't measure it, but I noticed it when I was making tenon shoulder cuts registered against the fence.  By the time I got around all four sides the kerf was off a hair.  BTW I was using a well tuned FastTrack Mitre gauge with a 24" fence.  The fix was easy and permanent.  I just took my super sharp #7 Bailey and took down the high spots.  The UHWMPE planes very nicely.  I wouldn't be so sure not to see the same tollerances in a Beismeyer or any other clone unless they precision ground the tube.  Hell, you might see a few thousandth's variation in just the powder coating even if the tube was perfect.  Then you'd have to shim the laminate faces.  I think planing them is easier.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

2. 
   JeffKurtz | May 20, 2003 09:37pm | #2

   Bought mine last August.  Only complaint is the mitre gauge; which, like on all American style saws, is a piece of junk.  Runs smoothly; plenty of power; easy to adjust.  Excellent fit and finish.  More than satisfied with the fence.  As far as I can tell it differs from the fence used on the Powermatic only in color and material used on the sides.  Really can't recommend it highly enough.

    Suggest you check comments at Amazon.  You'll find very high degree of satisfaction there.

   If you check the cabinet saw reviews at FW's main site, you'll find good reports there as well.)

   Width of machine incl. extension wings and table is 76.5", but the widest point is at the front fence rail which measures 84".  (Guess that leaves you with 5ft to spare - not bad.)

   Jeff

1. 
   JDorn | May 20, 2003 09:45pm | #3

   Yeah i've actually read all the stuff on Amazon, was checking for price comparison's there earlier.  1699 online with free shipping or 1499 at my local vendor, which inclines me to get it locally.

   I had assumed the mitre gauge was probably junk, just about every one of them i've looked at has been so far, but i use a sled for 90 and 45 stuff.  and my CMS works well for odd angles providing that the board isn't over 7 inches wide which i've found usually is the case in the type of stuff i'm building.

   so i need a 7 ft wide footprint to be able to fit saw in shop.  that'd mean i'd probably have to lose some of the shelving along the side of my shop but that could probably be done in order to house a big saw.  Especially one that hopefully will last me for a long time, and until i get a big shop to put it in.

   Thanks for the information.

   JD

3. 
   migraine | May 21, 2003 03:51am | #4

   A friend has one, and I think the quality was great.  Unless I am mistaken, (usually often), Jet owns Powermatic.

4. 
   triplenet | May 21, 2003 04:22am | #5

   I bought a used 3 hp PM gold 66 for less than the Jet, but they tend to go higher unless really old. I am still amazed on how well it feels when it cuts.   I like good machinery.  My daughters' shop instuctor, who is a highly skilled published woodworker, outfitted their shop with Jet (yes, they have a shop!).  I've briefly used the Jet table saw, so I'm not an expert, but it's definately better than a contractors saw.  I have a Delta contactors saw, but the uses are different (can't and don't want to load the 66 in the truck).

   I've used alot of saws and the 66 has to be the top, after that I'd look Unisaw and Jet.  You're on the right track.

   Bob

5. 
   LeeTree | May 21, 2003 06:06pm | #6

   JD,

   I too have a 12' shop, and went throught the same decision making process as you did. For the money, I chose Jet a little over a year ago. Powermatic is owned by Jet, and the only real difference I could see from my research is that the cast table was better polished (of course, there are a few subtle other differences, but not enough to justify the extra $$$).

   Anyway. When I got the Jet home, I tried many ways to get it to fit, and it just was too big for my 9' door opening, and 12' width. So, I cut the side table down to 32" (giving me almost 2 more feet), and fit the router table into the shortened space. Viola! Perfect!

   I concur with the comments about the miter gauge sucking, but the ones with the Delta and Powermatic suck too, so either way an added expense.

   I don't do much commercial work yet, but my wife has a list a mile long and is the pickiest human on earth. I have built my workbench, cabinets (floor, wall and workbench), a desk and cabinet work for the wife and all has been perfect. The Jet has enough power to cut through 3" Maple with no problem, I have never stalled it or had any power problems, and the fence has been solid as a rock.

   Good luck, and no I do not work for Jet, but I would buy it again.

   - lee -

1. 
   JDorn | May 21, 2003 06:42pm | #7

   LTannen, that's the same idea i was toying with for size.  I really want 50 inch rails for the future when i move and have a big shop, but they make fitting stuff in my current shop a bit tight.  I think the garage stall i'm using now is about 12x25 so putting the saw offset toward front would eat up a sizeable portion of my floor space, especially with its 7 ft width since i have a system of shelves that occupy the 2 ft closest to one wall, and have a bunch of other stuff stored in about 1 ft wide of wall on other side, leaving me only about 2 ft to move around saw.

   Did you have to cut down the rail system as well? or am i misunderstanding how you set it up.  The version I was looking at has a router plate lift premounted in the extension wing, though i'd probably remove, and build my own table to put in place there with extra drawers for storage under it.

   I do normally like to keep alot of tools on casters/bases so that i can move them out into my driveway when i need to use them, which could be come tricky if i put that big saw in there.  Guess its time to move to a new house with a real shop.

   JD

1. 
   LeeTree | May 21, 2003 07:14pm | #8

   JD,

   I live in a real house with what I would like to think of as a real shop. Unfortunately, my wife has limited me to 2 of our 3 garage bays. I use one for the shop, and one for wood storage. Yes, I did cut down the rails, and then fixed the extension table so it would fit into the newly cut rails. I am on wheels and hooked up to a dust collection system too. Like I said I am very happy with the new setup, and it seems we have much in common with shop sizes.

   I posted some pictures of my shop a few weeks ago. So I hope this will help you. Let me know what you think.

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=12228.8

   - lee -

1. 
   JDorn | May 21, 2003 07:24pm | #9

   Tannen, that link goes to this thread not to an old one.

   i'd love to see how you altered the rails for a slightly smaller table. 

   My shop is currently a 1 car garage, so while i'm able to do some decent work, its really a hassle buying the tools i want, my floor space seems to vanish sooooooo fast.  But I may have the wife convinced that if i'm gonna buy a big TS i might as well buy a huge one that i won't want to replace in 5 years when i out grow it project wise.

   JD

   PS, Man a 2 car garage shop, what i would give for one of those right now :)  This is me and my wifes first house so its kinda small, and when we got it i didn't know that I'd fall in love with woodworking like I have so at the time it didn't seem like a bad idea to get a 1 car garage.   Hehe, how wrong could i be, now I want a 2 or 3 car, or better yet my own little shop building with a big "no wives allowed" sign :)  The senior member of our team at work here just recently came into a huge amount of walnut and oak and other misc hardwood for a real steal of a price and has been offering me some of it but i'm totally devoid of places to store it, having an extra wood storage bay would be nice.

   Edited 5/21/2003 12:30:20 PM ET by JDorn

   Edited 5/21/2003 12:47:40 PM ET by JDorn

1. 
   LeeTree | May 21, 2003 11:10pm | #15

   JD,

   Sorry,

   Here is the correct link:

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=10734.1

   You should be able to get a good idea of how i have laid out my shop from the pictures.

   I started with a 2 car garage that had my shop in a 10x10 area. About 3 years after moving in, I talked the wife into letting me do an addition on the garage with a second story for my office. I did most of the work, so costs were very low. Anyway. after moving into my office, the garage sat empty for a few months, and I asked (begged) to be able to put my shop in the extra bay. My logic to her was that I would build her stuff (boy has she held me to this too).

   She granted my wish, and so slowly I created my shop. I asked lots of questions here in the forum, read lots of magazines, and got all my ideas. So anyway shortly after my shop was built, I needed wood for projects, but had little room. You can see how in one of the pictures I built a wall wood storage unit. This only holds about 300 bd/ft.

   I live in Florida, so wood is not cheap, unless you like pine (which is OK for some things). I too had a friend who had some walnut, maple, etc for cheap. So again, I begged. I told her more wood was required to build her stuff. She relented, and so access was given to the second bay.

   She is a good woman most of the time, and as long as she keeps getting her furniture for free (or close to it), she is happy.

   - lee -

   PS. I Like having my router in my saw. it not only saves space, but it allows me to use the fence as a backstop for the router fence.

2. 
   JDorn | May 21, 2003 11:16pm | #17

   man someone with more stuff in less space than me, makes me feel a little bit better.

   I like your layout, i take it your bench is the right height to serve as your outfeed table too.  Perhaps that's something i need to take into consideration if i'm gonna end up with a cabinet saw in my current shop, 2 tools, serving a dual purpose.  My current assembly bench is a piece of leftover low grade melamine on a 2x4 frame that sits on saw horses.  Which is nice cause i can set it aside when i don't need it, but normally it stays setup and serves as a good low assembly bench.

   my current setup for router table/table saw isn't that fancy but it does serve its purpose.    May I ask you another question?  Do you have a tenoning jig, and if so is it the Jet one?  After some comments in here i'm leaning toward a 30 inch fence system instead of the 52, i don't need the extra router anyway and i could use the savings on a mobile base and a jig along with a FWW2 to add to my blade collection.  I already have a nice Freud 24 tooth rip blade that chews up 8/4 stuff on my crappy benchtop saw now.

   JDPS nice clamp collection, those Bessy's probably cost a pretty penny :)

   Edited 5/21/2003 4:20:06 PM ET by JDorn

   Edited 5/21/2003 4:20:56 PM ET by JDorn

3. 
   BG | May 21, 2003 11:41pm | #18

   Jdorn,

   Two cents.

   I bought the Grizzly last fall and have a very small space also. I'd like ot say my shop is abut 14x17 but I have an oil tank to contend with and waste pipes, etc. so it's really 12x16 kinda.  I looked at the long rails but decided comming up with the 8' on the feed and outfeed side would be huge problem also...and therefore cut all my big sheets with straight edge and circular saw outside. 

   Here's the important point, IMHO, with a cabinet saw, the way I do things changed dramatically and I've been re-designing my shop because of the TS since last fall.  I don't think you can accurately predict how much that TS will change things..ya gotta give yourself some time.  I'm glad I went with the shorter rails so I can get a bandsaw latter.

   What you and I don't know, but are going to quickly realize was revealed in an earlier post. ....wood storage...how we gonna find space for that?   

4. 
   LeeTree | May 21, 2003 11:49pm | #19

   JD,

   Yes, too much in too little space, but I need all of those things to build stuff.

   Yes, my workbench (my first project, after the wall cabinets) also serves as an outfeed table. It is actually 1/2 inch lower to allow for everything to fit properly.

   Like I said combining the two tools into one has given me extra square footage. As you can see, I need every extra inch. No need buying the table with router. I didn't. I bought the big table on closeout for about $1100 from a business that was discontinuing the selling of their woodworking equipment. I decided on the Jessem Router Lift system, and replaced the existing extension shortened table with my own extension with the Jessem. The 30" table is a little cheaper, but has to be ordered from the factory, as most of the dealer figures no one will want the short table. Depends on how fast you need the saw. If you are patient like me, I needed it yesterday

   Yes, I have a tenoning jig. I bought the Delta. Same price, works great, and better built.

   Yes the Besseys were a pretty penny, but like everything else, buy a little at a time, and the cost is not so great.

   Like an old man once told me. Buy the best you can afford, take care of it, and it should last a very long time.

   - lee -

2. 
   DeskJockey | May 21, 2003 09:21pm | #10

   My 2 cents,

   I too am a hobbiest woodworker and recently bought the jet cabinet saw because of the significant cost difference between it and the PM and Delta.  I think the Jet is a great machine, plenty of power, very accurate and rock solid.  The Xacta II is a really good fence that is easily adjustable to square everything up.  It is also heavy as an elephant, but personally that is what I want when I am ripping a sheet of plywood.  The only downside is the magnified curser on the fence is annoying, but a quick shim takes care of that.  The dust collection is moderate at best, I love the left tilt, and the miter guage is pretty much useless (a quick crosscut sled takes care of that).

   As for the size, I have a 9 foot wide shop, so the 50in rails with the router table where definitely out for me.  I have yet to find a time when I would need the extra rails, and I would much rather have the extra space.   That said, I have had occasions when I wished I could use the Xacta fence for my router table or I wish I had the extra large surface to work with.  One thing you might want to consider is getting the thirty inch rails and then putting your own router table in the smaller extention table.  You still get the benefits, but not all the space issues.

   The bottom line is you will be very happy with this saw.  If I was a professional, and needed a production machine, I would have gotten the PM, but as a hobbyist, albeit a serious one, it more than suits my needs and its $800 cheaper.  That is enough for a lot more equipment.

1. 
   JDorn | May 21, 2003 09:39pm | #11

   hmm, i wonder what the average price difference is between the 30 inch rails and the 50 inch system.  My local shop only had a 50 incher in the store, maybe i'll keep looking around, cause personally i'd like a separate router table outside of the saw wing, so maybe the 30 inch rail system is what i should look into.

   Jon, what's the width of your saw from left to right total?  something like 5 ft would be alot nicer in my shop for width.  My current benchtop saw/router table system i have is about 50 inches wide and i have plenty of space to walk around it.

   I just sent my local shop an email inquring about the availability and price of the 30 inch version.  If it is indeed in the 1200-1300 range that's probably acceptable, especially because if I at a later time have a bigger shop building and find that i need the larger rails i can always buy them separately and sell the 30 inch system on ebay, i can use the extra savings for a tenoning jig.  Now for the hard part, convincing the wife that i really need one.

   JD

   Edited 5/21/2003 3:01:52 PM ET by JDorn

   Edited 5/21/2003 3:02:45 PM ET by JDorn

1. 
   DeskJockey | May 21, 2003 10:48pm | #12

   I think the left to right width is right about 60 inches, I will check tonight and get back to you to make sure.  I certainly wouldn't pay over $1300 for the 30 inch rails I paid $1200 so you should be able to get around the same. 

   Your points are right on about getting the 50in rails later.  I lot of strings people here at knots have advocated that, and I think you will find that you very rarely if ever will need that extra capacity. 

   Jon

2. 
   LeeTree | May 21, 2003 11:14pm | #16

   One other comment on the mobile base. I bought the Delta Unisaw mobile base because of the foot controls. I hate bending over any more than I already have to. The unisaw base was a little longer than I needed, so a local machine shop cut the extension down for $15. I tried the jet/Shop Fox, and it sucked. Two levers, and all that bending over, yuk!

   - lee -

2. 
   migraine | May 23, 2003 02:01am | #20

   I may have missed this somewhere in the tread,   Just cut the rails from 50" to 30".  It takes about 10 minutes.  When you move, then buy another set.  I had an 84" Beismeyer set that I cut to 60", but then again, I was in a comercial building at the time.  I paid about $500 for the 84" set

1. 
   JDorn | May 23, 2003 07:33am | #21

   yeah i know i can cut them down, but why pay extra for them if i'm gonna cut them off at 30 anyway.  If i can save 300 bucks from my dealer i'm all for that. 

   JD

6. 
   Elcoholic | May 21, 2003 10:49pm | #13

   I've had one for several years.  Here's some background.  Jet built a factory just to make just this saw well before their parent company acquired Powermatic.  The specifically targeted the Unisaw and PM66 market.  The fence is built the USA and betters the Biesmeyer with a magnified cursor and the UHMW Polyethelene faces.  I paid $1299 for the 50" fence model after the perrineal $100 rebate.  I was fortunate to have a local dealer (California Woodworking Machinery, Anaheim) that had the Jet next to a 66 with the tables removed.  The heft of the castings, bearings, arbor and the feel of the handwheels blew the Unisaw away and compared nicely with the 66 for almost a grand less.  I bought a Vega Machine Mover mobile base and set it up in a couple of hours.  It took a couple of shims to get the extensions level and no other adjustments were required.  I've added a Fasttrack mitregauge, an Excaliber overarm blade guard w/ DC, a Jet outfeed roller table and a Beismeyer drop-in splitter.  I hate sheetgood work for the most part, but when I have to cut full sheets of 3/4 "smellymine" or ply I can do so safely and accurately without having to hunt down a helper or rough cut with a 77 and a straight edge.  No regrets.

   One last tip.  A good saw is only as good as the blades you put on it.  Get quality combination, rip blades and dado sets.  I prefer FS Tools blades.

   John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

1. 
   DeskJockey | May 21, 2003 11:04pm | #14

   One last tip.  A good saw is only as good as the blades you put on it.  Get quality combination, rip blades and dado sets.  I prefer FS Tools blades.

   Great Point, I have a Forrest Woodworkers I 60 tooth for crosscut and a Freud 24 tooth ripping blade, and no joiner needed.

7. 
   sawduster | Jun 03, 2003 07:30pm | #40

   Buy the Jet! Have had one for over a year and think it's great, especially in light of the price. If there is any way you can make the 54" fence fit, go for it. Unfortunately, I have an 11'X23' shop and just couldn't make the bigger table fit. It is something I really miss when I do cabnets. As to the router, think about dust control and consider a table with lift and a good DC set up, Norm has a good plan for a router table if you haven't already built one.

1. 
   JDorn | Jun 04, 2003 01:28am | #41

   hehe, i actually ahve the plans for Norm's table already, jsut haven't gotten around to building it.  I'm currently using my router in the wing of the table i built for my crappy benchtop table saw, works farily well, and i built Norm's fence system on it and i like it quite a bit, though i don't have mine running in a track, i have the fence free floating so i can clamp it in any direction when i need too.

   Showed my wife the Jet over the weekend and am commencing operation, convince the wife :)

   Thanks for all the advice guys, i appreciate it.

   JD