Friends,
Years ago, I saw a thead here with a post in it by Joel of Tools for Working Wood, and he said that the best strop is a naked (no stropping compound added) horsehide strop. I remember Derek got one and he tried it out and loved it. Somehow I never felt the need to get a second strop. I have a long cowhide strop into which I have rubbed green compound, which I have used on chisels, knives and plane irons for years. I use it after a 1000 and an 8000 Norton waterstone. All was well.
A while back, I was at an estate sale and there was a box of stuff that just called out to me “BUY ME”! It was a bunch of old barber stuff – straight razors, strops, a container for holding shaving soap, etc etc etc. There were about five strops in it. Most had two strops joined at the top by a bolt, one being leather and one being some sort of canvas, which I have learned that barbers used after the leather. Interesting! Well, these strops remained in the box for a few years. Then a week ago, I opened the box and did some research to see what I had, and I gently cleaned up the stuff. One of the strops was labelled Genuine Horsehide. Well, I immediately thought of Joel, and his horsehide strops. I just came into a set of chisels and wood planes (another story for another time). So I flattened the backs of the chisels and irons, and then stropped them with my trusty old leather strop with the green compound. I got the same result I had always gotten.
THen I took out my new (from the early 1900s) Barber’s Horsehide leather strop, and but the biggest chisel to it. WOW, what a difference. I had used the strop with the green compound, then I cleaned the compound off with a cloth and used the naked horesehide strop. MAGNIFICENT. I don’t know that it will cut much better, but it looks much better, and for only a few seconds worth of work.
I have long wondered if Joel was right about those naked horsehide strops. Now I know from personal experience. IMHO, Joel is right!!!!!
Joel does not know I am writing this. Except for trading a few messages, he doesn’t know me. I get nothing for posting this, except the satisfaction of letting fellow woodworkers in on something I have just discovered. I didn’t do a scientific study. It was simply my experience with a number of chisels and plane irons.
Have fun. Try a naked horsehide strop. I believe you will be very happy with the result of a few seconds worth of stropping. Please note: this is not an ad for buying a strop from Joel. I got mine at an estate sale, but then again, I have been going to estate sales and antique stores for many decades, and this is the first horsehide strop that I have come across. Writing to Joel is a lot more efficient.
Mel
PS – To be more precise, Joel is talking about Horse Butt strops. See
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mvc?prodid=MS-HORSEST
My strop is not labelled “horse butt”, just “horse hide”.
Replies
My questions is why?
Why would house hide be all that different from cow hide leather? Is there any visual difference your old eyes can see? Is there a different feel to the two leathers? Is there a different tanning method prehaps? Maybe John White has some answers.
Dan,
I hope someone else has the answer. I don't know why. As I said, my little test was a test, but it was not scientific and it was not complete. I didn't test all hides.
The horsehide that I used is hard and smooth.
Joel sells "Horse Butt Hide", not just horse hide. Who knows, it may be the part of the horse that the hide came from is important. Mine might be horse butt hide too, but it doesn't say that.
Also, and more importantly, I don't know that a shinier blade will cut better. I remember a discussion here on Knots that shinier does not necessarily mean flatter, and thus sharper. I believe it was a discussion about different brands of waterstones of the same 8000 rating.
But, that old (early 1900s) barber's razor strop really improved the shine I got from the cowhide strop with green compound after using 1000 and 8000 Norton water stones on the backs of six chisels and 8 plane irons, after doing the initial flattening with sandpaper on granite.
Mel
Not just any horse hide....
There are so many jokes that I am passing up on right now. But I will keep to the subject matter. Your observation is that the leather is very hard. That would seem to me to be a product of the tanning process and the thickness of the leather. The hardness would have some impact on the polishing of steel if it was abrading the surface with very fine 'grit' some how. WOuld the 'hardness' have some impact on ability to keep the surfaces flat? All I have are questons about these horses' a**.
Dan,
You have too much time on your hands. If you want to use some of it to help me write a book, let me know. I am working out the details of a tome to be called: WOODWORKING: THE FINAL BOOK, subtitled: The Last Word on all Woodworking Tools and Practices. Let me know if you are interested.
Have fun,
Mel
horsehide answers
The difference between horse skin and cow skin is the subject of debate among holster makers and gun nutz. . Here is what Milt Sparks has to say. He makes one of the finest inside the waistband concealed cary holsters today IMHO
What is the difference between cowhide and horsehide?
One of the more notable properties of horsehide is its natural ability to repel moisture. This is due to the dense cell structure of the hide thus limiting its porosity. This natural ability to repel moisture makes it very useful for certain applications, particularly for use inside the waistband.
Unlike with cowhide, horsehides non-porous nature reduces its ability to fully absorb the casing solution during the forming process, making it much more difficult to get good crisp detail of the weapon when molding around the gun. Also for the same reason horsehide tends not to absorb the dye and finishing materials as evenly making it in my opinion, somewhat inferior in that respect to good cowhide.
Horsehide is also somewhat rustic in appearance in comparison to cowhide. Cowhide is graded at the tannery in direct relation to the percentage of scar, range marks and other surface imperfections on the hide. Grade (A) being the best, is what we order from the tannery and a true Grade (A) will generally, but not always, be devoid of any surface imperfections. Horsehide on the other hand, basically only comes from the tannery one way, un-graded and usually with plenty of the above imperfections. On the bright side, much of the scaring, stretch and range marks common on much of the horsehide we get today, is present in unique patterns much like figured wood. We actually set aside some of the more distinct pieces to be used in conjunction with exotic trim where exotic trim is an option on some of our holsters. Since horsehide is unpredictable in its grading, you must accept the fact that any horsehide product you order from us may exhibit some of the above characteristics and is not considered by us to be a defective product. Any horsehide we use in our products is guaranteed to be structurally sound, regardless of any natural markings that may be present on the surface. I guess the bottom line is if you expect from us a clean holster, devoid as much as possible of any natural markings, order cowhide.
On the durability issue there has been much BS circulating on the mythical wear characteristics of horsehide. I will not argue that a well made horsehide holster will give you many years and possibly a lifetime of good service, but with proper care a good cowhide holster will last just as long.
Some of our holsters combine the use of both horsehide and cowhide, taking into advantage the desirable attributes of each material. So which material is better?? That is a personal preference issue. Where horsehide is available as an option, the choice is yours.
I'm thinkin'
(and I use that phrase very loosely) . . . that perhaps what happens is the wire edge snags in the leather and gets pulled off the edge rather than there being an abrasive thing going on.
Not a big strop fan here. Obviously I don't do any carving to speak of. I try to get rid of all the wire edge on the 8000 stone. I sometimes rinse it two or three times if the fancy tool steel is being a drag and hanging on to the wire. Damned stuff anyway.
If I don't rinse it then there are little bits of "wire" on the stone preventing the stone from getting in there and cutting the rest off. It is so easy and tempting to "break" it off on a leather strop.
Maple wood strop; that is what the totally cool guy microscope tests showed to be the best strop. The cool guy was a woman by the way.
I am following this thread with fascination though.
PS: I am posting this with my new Apple Magic Trackpad.
http://www.apple.com/magictrackpad/
Just got it up and going a little bit ago. Sweet ! Works great. Has one, two, three and four finger gestures.
Stop that !
Not THAT kind of gesture.
PS: swenson,
Thank you for the info ! I added it to my notes.
Not sure if it helped
I'm not too sure it helped to understand anything about using horsehide as a strop but it helped with the difference between the two kinds of hides. When I was a bow hunter I used to sharpen my broadheads on a hard arkansaw stone with kerosine as a lube, then strop the blades on the instep of my leather mocs while wearing them with stropping shoe crossed on my knee. Then test it on my arm to see if it would shave hair. By the time I had all my arrows sharp for bow season I would have no hair at all on my left arm. The deer were very safe, by the way, until I took up hunting with a 30/30.
S,
Loved your ideas on why horse hide for holsters, and on the properties of horse hide. I am not sure whether stropping is of much help to woodworking. I am not sure that Knots conversation is of much help to woodworking. But it is a great help to woodworkers. It is great fun. It keeps the mind exercised.
Now about hunting deer. My thoughts are: Suppose you went to a boxing match, and one of the boxers pulled out a 30-30 and shot the other guy. You wouldn't think that was sporting would you. Now if both had the same rifle, that might be good, but I'd watch on TV, not in the audience. I think deer hunting should not be done with rifles, guns, or even a knife, but MANO A MANO, or maybe MANO A HOOF. The human is already more intelligent that the dear (I think). If the hunter also has a weapon, that gives him too much of an edge. But I would really respect a hunter who caught a dear with his hands, wrestled it to the ground and finished it off without any weapons. Now that would be sporting.
Back to strops, I believe that Ray strops with the palm of his hand. I think that the stropping action he uses is with the cutting edge in the trailing position. At first, he stropped with the edge in leading position, but found that was problematic.
BOTTOM LINE: my flattened backs look shinier after a horse hide strop. What could be better? I love it when my wife comes into the shop and says, "Oh Mel, I love the way the flattened backs on your blades are so shiny.", which is followed up by, "Now go get the dirty laundry, mow the lawn, put out the garbage, and go get some milk,bread and sliced ham."
Mel
edge in leading position...
At first, he stropped with the edge in leading position, but found that was problematic.
For a while I shaved with a straight razor. I had a double sided strop, charged cloth on side 1, leather on side 2. When stropping a straight razor you get speed by rolling the blade over on its rounded back and continuing back up the strop in trailing position, roll back down trailing, roll strop, roll strop. I lived in fear of loosing concentration and getting into a strop roll lead and cutting the strop in half. I never did, but would stop dead if anyone hollered at me thru the bathroom door.
As for hunting, it sure was sporting when I used a bow, but it didn't bring any food into camp. Now that the deer are having their revenge, eating everything I plant in my yard, I almost wish I had used a machine gun. Bull fighting seems sporting, two sharp horns against a cape, but somehow the poor bull almost always gets it in the neck so I do see your point. I quit hunting years ago. I've killed a lot of paper targets though.
Those weren't my ideas on horsehide, just a cut and paste from a very fine holster maker, Milt Sparks, who used to have a waiting list pushing one year 'till he put a monthly limit on orders. I have heard it is now down to six months. It was well worth the wait when I bought one of his Versa Max II IWBs. By the way I think Milt died quite a while ago but his company lives on with his name and a small number of craftsmen keeping up the quality.
Wire edge idea...
I find your comments about the harder leather maybe doing a bit better job of pulling off the wire edge appealing. There may be something in that idea. However to prove it would require some pretty high power work with electron microscopes etc. SOunds like a project for a grad student somewhere. Thanks for the 2 cents. On the deer, you can come here to Western Maryland and do all the hunting you want. The Whitetail are out of control. However, becasue things are too built up, you can not use your 30-30. Bows or shotguns with buck shot. And there are some areas I would suggest you not get even close to with any weapon. The Marines up by Camp #3 (aka Camp David) don't have a sense of humor.
Camp David
I was hunting during the Nixon admin (I think it was) with a publicity guy from NRA, John Hightower. We were changing locations and cutting over a mountain. Shotguns were on the back seat, unloaded. A sign said NO Firearms and I questioned John about it, That just means no hunting he said. As we drove along I started to see what looked like lit lightbulbs back in the woods, then some kind of short towers. What's that I asked. "HOLY S - - T That's camp David in there.!!!!" Not only that but Nixon was at the camp. We got outa town fast.
Another story...
I have been active in Boy Scouts for years. The local Order of the Arrow Cahpter does its annual ordeal at Camp Greentop, accross park Central Drive from the enterence to Camp David. Part of the ordeal is to sleep under the star alone. Some kid dicided not to follow directions and headed north when he was told to go south. After using him for some night training, and asking a few questions, the Marines brought him abck accross the road -- one very scared 14 year old. Something about 6 guys in camo just appearing with big guns pointed at him that had a lasting impression. The story gets told every year and no one has tried it since.
Boy Scouts
My wife was talked into becomming a den mother over thirty years ago and is still in the scouting program. My 40+ year old son is an eagle scout, my wife has beads from taking and teaching woodbadge (cub and scout, though there is no longer a cub woodbadge) and they both outrank me. I credit working on my son's pinewood derby car, and trying to keep my hands off it as he was making it, I credit that with re awakening my love of woodworking.
Great story about OA by the way.
S,
You let your kid make his own pine derby car?
WHat kind of father are you? ANSWER: Unique! Nice job.
My middle son had a plan when he joined Boy Scouts. He mapped out the minimum number of days you had to spend at each rank. He had a plan to become Eagle in as short a time as the requirements allowed. THIS DISPLEASED THE SCOUTMASTER, who believed you should be within a few days of being 18 before you got your Eagle. Patrick got is in two years flat, if I remember correctly. Which made him a very young Eagle. Well, the scoutmaster pretty much told everyone that this was not a good thing to do because in his experience, no one stays in Boy Scouts after then get Eagle. (( OBVIOUSLY CORRECT since in his experience, scouts got it just before having to stop being a Scout. Patrick, stayed in Scouts all through High School. He became a Junior Assistant Scoutmaster, He went through everything in OA. He was on the Indian Ceremonies group as the Medicine Man. He stayed in Scouting as an Assistant Scoutmaster when he went to College. When he ended his scouting career, he had 72 Merit Badges. I always felt that the Scoutmaster was an excellent example of a leader who exemplified none of the spirit of Scouting. But that is a good lesson in life. You may be working for an idiot, but it is still your job to get your job done well.
My other two kids were not interested in Scouting. I am proud of all three.
Mel
Pinewoods and eagles
I have heard that there are Packs where they have a separate derby just for fathers and mothers who can't fight the urge to "help" more than a little with the building of the cars. They get to build their own.
We, my wife and I, developed a system, a ploy if you will, for keeping my son in the program and it went like this: "You want to drop out of Scouting? Well that's your decision, but you are currently the quartermaster (or whatever position in the troop he currently held) and you have a obligation to serve out your term before you quit." By the time he served out his term he had forgotten that he wanted to quit. We worked this several times. My son was in a troop (966) that camped out once a month no matter what, Rain, snow, mud (there was always mud it seemed), didn't matter. The worse it was then, the better they remember it today as the best ever.
The problem with waiting until the last minute to get your eagle is that sometimes little glitches crop up with the requirements, and as your birthday approaches, ironing them out with Council or the Eagle Board can cause a lot of last minute panic.
Last minutes is not the way to go, but...
I was proud of my son for not waiting until he was 18. He realized that because he worked at camp, that he needed to be finished before he left (he has an August birthday). So he made sure he had his project in and his paperwork by April the year he turned 18. Truth be known, he should have finished a year sooner, but he finished. My daughter is in a Venture Crew that my wife and I lead (more or less). We had one of the girls finish her Silver Award this summer. As Venture awards are given by the Crew officers, we were able to arrange a presentation down at Goshen Scout Reservation. My first experience with a Venture Silver advancement and it was almost as much paperowrk as an Eagle. The young lady also worked at Camp, but is in college up in Mass. . My daugher and another girl from the crew were working at Webelos camps down there so we were able to get enough Crew member together to make the presentation.
I think there was a move afoot this year to make Goshen the permanent site for Jamboree but I think that changed. I've never been to Goshen but my son went that first trial year that they took webelos.
scouts and strops
Trying to fathom the connection, it finally came to me, Mel.
Your son's Scoutmaster, may have been a good candidate to be a strop, as he was obviously a horse's a$$.
Having been a horse's a...er scoutmaster myself, I have perhaps not surprisingly, a few thoughts on the subject of the Eagle Award, its requirements, and the scout's age. There is no justification for a SM to block a boy's advancement to Eagle on the basis of "I think he is too young", when the boy has fulfilled all the requirements as set out by BSA. (There is, or used to be, a place for the SM to sign off on the boy's having displayed "scout spirit" in his time in rank as a Life Scout. This is a nebulous requirement, but in my experience, a SM refusing to sign off on this had better be able to articulate-document, even, his reasons for refusal to sign, to the boys parent(s) as well as the district advancement committee chair, and the council exec. (damhikt)).
The requirements for joining a troop, for time in rank, and the holding of various leadership positions- a wild card, most of them are elective (not a given, just because the boy "needs" it to advance), establish a minimum age a boy however ambitious, must be before being eligible for Eagle rank. BSA standards. Practically speaking, there is a ceiling agewise, which may also put the brakes on a boys interest in advancement and participation. SM's speak jokingly of the "fumes"- perFUME, and auto exhaust FUMES. BSA says the upper age limit is 18, but experience says it may be 16, when drivers' licences are issued.
Now, concientious SM's want a boy who attains Eagle rank to have sufficient maturity to understand what the rank means. Such esoterica as honor, responsibility, and obligation to service ought to be more than just nice words to an Eagle scout, who like a Marine, ALWAYS will carry the name around with him. Many, I'll say most 13 yr olds are not self aware enough to internalise just what I'm talking about. Likewise, most 13 yr olds won't have met all the rquirements for advancement, (maybe he forgot to run for patrol leader, and the SM "forgot" to remind him, at their last conference.). Mmm, works out pretty well on its own, doesn't it?
Likewise, SM's will want a boy who exemplifies the qualities of an Eagle, to attain that rank. Sometimes, that means a little extra encouragement, to keep him active in the troop when sports, dating, or a job is taking up his time. It may mean a trip to get the troop committee chair's signature in place the night of the boy's 18th b'day, after he has finally turned in the 90 day record of his personal fitness Merit Badge. Some need reassurance that they indeed are worthy of holding the rank.
It seems to me that being a scout leader affords one the opportunity to not only sharpen a boy's practical skills at knot tying, first aid, cooking and such like, but more importantly, while the boy thinks he's having fun camping and hiking, to hone his sensibilities toward becoming a leader, a contributor to society, in short a good citizen. One of the last kids I saw cross the bridge from cubs- now an Eagle- just left for a 7 mo stint in Bahrain, with his fellow Marines.
Ray who used to be a bear, a good old bear, too.
Roc,
One of the great things about getting older is that the eyes don't work as well anymore. I can only feel a wire, not see it. I chase the wire on the 8000 water stone. For years, I then ran the chisel or plane iron or carving gouge over my 18 " cow hide strop with green compound a few times. I am not sure that the strop did any good. The tools perform well. Probably they'd perform well without the strop. Now I have a second strop. Total stropping time for both strops is less than 30 seconds so not much of my life or energy is spent stropping. I do see the flattened backs get shinier after the cowhide strop, and even shinier still after the horsehide strop.
Mayor Fenty just lost his bid for reelection as Mayor of Washington, DC. The Washington Post has a number of articles on that primary this morning. One was a "What's IN, What's OUT" article. One of the things that is OUT as Fenty leaves is "EFFECTS", and what is in is "PROCESS". It is more than possible that I am focussing on PROCESS, not EFFECT, and I pointed that out in my original post. I never realized how much woodworking and politics have in common. :-)
You know, I am still not sure whether or why it makes sense to go to 16,000 grit (speaking of honing). I have heard the explanation that this does not make a sharper edge, but a harder, more consolidated edge which holds its sharpness longer. Of course, this may be another fable. BUT THE REAL ANSWER was provided by Joel a few years ago when he said, in a discussion on sharpening, something like "I don't want to maintain more than two stones". I like the way Joel thinks.
When I think of the great furniture makers of the 1700s and the stones they had for sharpening, I kinda doubt that they had the backs as flat as we get them now, and probably less than 20 % of the used Shapton 16,000 grit watersones. :-) Yet some of their pieces now sell for more than a million dollars apiece. How did they do so well with dull tools?
See, not only are you thinking too much, but I am too. I try not to let my thinking interfere with my enjoyment of the process of woodworking. Have fun. I enjoyed your comments, as always.
Mel
Nah Dude Nah
Come on; don't pull that old "how could they do it right a couple of hundred years ago" argument when the Japanese could do it precisely a thousand years ago.
I think I posted this once or twice before (and the above sentence as well). I got some accessories for my head like yea and I can see a curl come off a single hair and the wire coming off the blade onto the stone. I think they work with glasses but I don't wear glasses so not sure.
http://www.loupe-magnifier.com/quasar_ls_lighting_system.htm
I don't always wear them now because I have my system and I work it and I get the results I want without much brain or technique or vision on my part. That is just the way I like my sharpening.
If one can feel the wire it is MONSTROUS. The one I am talking about is the merest whisp of a piece of foil. No way to feel it because it is so thin BUT if one breaks it off rather than abrades it off then it isn't an optimal edge but rather (on a microscopic level ) a jaggady, broken off, falling into the sea , glacier of an edge.
I am sure you will agree that would never do.
: )
Now that would be different....
Mel,
You are the retired one, I still have to make a living and with one kid in college and the other a junior in HS, it has to be a good living. I really do not have all that much time to wax eloquent. And while business is a bit slow this week, next week looks to be a bear. I can just hear the editorial discussions -- and with very sharp objects around, I doubt this is a good idea. It would be the final word on the subject and any damn fool that disputed it would be to immediately consigned to the scrap heap of woodworking history by our unappealable decree. I think I will pass on the literary endeavors.
Dan
I was only kidding about the book. After all, there are three issues left that we have not fully resolved.
I have been scouring the archives of Knots. There is no doubt that all answers to all possible woodworking questions are in the Archives. Actually, all possible answers to all possible questions are in the Archives. AND some of them are in there many times. We woodworkers do not let issues die quickly. There are 146,863 threads on sharpening in the Archives. The reality of woodworking is that all issues live forever, for without issues, we would have nothing to talk about. We go to great lengths to dredge up issues. WE LOVE A GREAT DISCUSSION. It does not have to be meaningful. It is kind of like politics and philosophy in France. Everybody discusses things, endlessly. As Marshall McLuhan said, "The medium is the message."
About retirement. Don't assume that there is less to do during retirement. That would be a false assumption. The length of the honey-do list remains the same. Only the specifics change. As someone once pointed out, life is like a river. THe water may change every second, but the shape of the river changes slowly.
Enjoy the lawyering, and the young kids.
Mel
Less work, Virginia...
Less work, Virginia, why you might as well think that there is less Santa Clause. (Virginia is a little girl, it is just a coincidence the we both live in VA)
Before I retired I could quit with the mowing and painting and pruning and go in to work and get some rest. Now I don't even get hollidays off and I lost the six week vacation to boot... less work? less work? dream on, my friend. Excuse me I gotta go hang an albatross around my neck and go warn others...
EDIT This was not aimed at you Mel. We are in complete agreement on this one.
As a man of Science and has a Russian Shell strop? Anyway...
http://www.mikeredwood.com/glossary
Hi Mel
Why Horse Butt leather? My understanding is that it is harder and denser than other hides such as cow, which are important qualities when you want to avoid dubbing. The horse butt strop from Joel is double-sided insofar that it has a rough- and smooth side. Some prefer the rough side when using a rouge and the smooth side when used plain. My preference is to glue the rough side to hardwood to ensure that the leather is flat (it otherwise has a tendency to curl, which can promote dubbing).
I have a few strops. One is used with green honing compound (cannot call it "rouge") and the other is plain. In fact I have another which I have experimented with .5 micron diamond paste. They all work, but differently. The strop with green compound will abraid metal, and is used if I want to refresh the edge between honing on a stone. The plain is more likely to be used if I just want to be certain that the wire edge is gone. This one is used very seldom - I'd rather use the one with compound.
With regard your comment that Joel recommends two stones, keep in mind that he was (1) either referring to oil stones, or (2) mentioning that this was part of a sharpening strategy that included hollow grinding. It is possible to use 2 waterstones only, but this is actually not a good practice as it leads to more time on the finer grit. I use Shaptons and, while I can use just the 1000 and 12000 after a fresh hollow grind, as the edge gets wider I need to add in the 5000.
Lastly, onto Boy Scouts .. I thought I might mention that my father possibly could lay claim to being the world's oldest boy scout at the age of 96! He is still active, having started at the age of 8. I was probably a big disappointment to him in this area as I never really took to given up my time for meetings, preferring instead to play tennis. Bit late now for me to start ..
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek,
Congratulations to your Dad on staying in Scouts at 96! That is wonderful.
I don't have experience with three stones. My two have served me well. I can imagine that going from a 1000 to 12,000 is just too far to go in one step, so the intermediate stone is necessary.
This recent spate of fettling was set off by my coming into a set of eight Ulmia Ott wood planes which date back probably 40 or 50 years. I don't believe they were ever used. I flattened the bottoms carefully, and did spend some time on the irons (a lot of time). Soon I will put them to wood. I have a lot to learn. I will write to you later about the set, if you are interested. I want to look into why they included the planes that they did. I remember that you commented once on an Ulmia or ECE scrub plane in a comparison with a LV scrub. You found it to be very light.. I can understand that. I didn't "Need" this set of planes, since I have the metal equivalents of all of them, but the Ulmia set was given to me. Learning to get the most out of them, and comparing them to the ones I am used to will be an adventure. The woods that I use (figured maple, walnut, cherry, red and white oak, poplar, pine,etc) are much tamer than the woods you use.
My regards to your Dad. I will tell my son, Patrick, about him.
Mel
" I flattened the bottoms carefully"
Were the bottoms lignum v. and if so what grit sandpaper did you use? How far out of flat were they? I have never been overly fond of the one I have. Never checked it for flat. Maybe I'll get the old feeler guages out and check it. The one I have has an adjustable mouth so I guess I don't have to be as careful about over sanding. Eight of 'em, wow, what a nice gift.
Oooohhhhhhhh
>lignum v. and if so what grit sandpaper did you use?<
Don't sand it ! Plane it or scrape it.
Toshio text is very specific how.
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/japanesewoodworkingtoolstheirtraditionspiritanduse.aspx
One doesn't imagine there is a whole engineered thing going on there on the bottom of a hand plane that appears to be just a flat surface but there is more to it than that especially on a wooden plane.
Ooooooohhhhhh be careful
You weren't expecting this to be simple did you ?
See photos way, way and the heck down the page at:
http://www.daikudojo.org/Classes/20060401/
Sensei begins work on conditioning the sole. He's using a scraper plane (Tachi Kanna)- blade is positioned at approximately 90 degrees.
and
Jay checking the gliding surface which should be right before the cutting edge and front of block.
She's going to have her eye on you.
: )
Don't sand it ? ?
I just broke my back hauling a nine hundred pound hunk of granite down into the shop to use as a dead flat base for long strips of sandpaper to flatten my one lousy lignum v, based plane, then broke something up front lifting it onto a bench...I gotta sand it. I just gotta.
Nice Lair You Have There.
You have the beginnings of your next hobby; precision metal working. Sure is a lot of real-estate for sharpening/flattening.
(Yes I woulda" if I could"a) just jealousy on my part pay it no mind.
When I saw the big slab I thought you had a chemical lab table there. Not that I know anything about chemistry but I walked through a lab once.
: )
Funny looking work bench over there on the left.
I know, I know . . . hi JW
I still don't understand the attraction.
Nooooo SAND PAPER ! ? ! ? ! ? ever comes near my big flat guy. Nope, nope would mess up the accuracy.
Sharpening bench.
When we redid our kitchen I took a hunk of the old counter top and made a gun cleaning bench out of it, When I started using water stones I moved the gun cleaning down to one end and set up my small granite surfacer on the rest of the top. Then I got to looking at the big hunk of Galaxy granite that they cut out of an island top that the Jen Air six burner went in. I kept that cutout in the garage for a year or two until I got an idea. Good thing I made that bench sturdy. Wish my back was that sturdy. I almost lost control of the slab while rolling it down the stairs. If it had cut loose it would have gone right thru the foundation I'm sure.
Good on your Dad... and Horse leather..
Last first, the hardness of the horse leather seems to be the answer to why it works better as a strop. Interesting. As I recall your Dad is in South Africa. I had the pleasure about 7 years ago to as as guide the the Chief Scout Executive of South Africa around DC for a day. Great guy. One of scoutings real blessings is that it tends to keep volunteers involved for life. We had guy here in Frederick Co. Maryland that reacently passed away at the age of 98 who had been a life long scouter. He attended the first wood badge course in North America and was the scoutmaster of the second course back in the 1930's. If your Dad is anything like the lfe long scouters I know, he has a great zest for life, cheerful and wants to be out and doing something all the time. That may have something to do with the long life. Nice to hear from you.
Thanks Dan. My dad is pretty amazing for his age. Actually my mum is even more amazing. She is 86 and still working as an art consultant. My dad was an architect and the one responsible for developing my love of wood. I have very fond memories of growing up camping in forests as a youngster ... well I couldn't escape that as he was a scout master (eventualy scout commisioner, and more).
He was a pretty good designer of furniture as well: http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Restoration/Chair%20leg/Dadschair.jpg
Regards from Perth
Derek
Those Chairs look like trouble...
Your Dad's chairs a great looking and they look like they would get you in trouble-- once you set down in one you may not want to get up for a long time. They seem like they would fit the body really well. From the pictures it is a little hard to tell just how low they sit. They look great. I like the black leather with the bent wood frames. My Dad was a bit of a woodworker, but he passed away before I was old enough to really share the hobby with him. I have most of his tools and a fair number from his grandfather who was a finish carpenter (in Europe one would say joiner I guess). My favorate plane is a Sargent adjustable month knickle cap block that I seem to reach for all time. Thanks for chiming in with your two cents. Do you have a government yet down under?
Ha Ha I wonder what he would think
You know and I know how the title of your post got that way but I wonder what he would say if he saw that you titled your post :
"My dad is pretty "
Ha Ha Ha Ha
Sorry to hear you will not make it this month. Was looking forward to meeting you. As I posted in a note to you in the Clubs forum a couple of days ago we finally firmed up our trip to Maine and it will allow me to attend the WWG meeting.
As for my comment about my plane, "I'm not overly fond" is code for "I never learned to adjust and use it right." I kinda gave up on it early in my woodworking. Now that I have learned a bit more I think I will put some time in, learning how to adjust it better. It is light, I'll give you that. I bought it years ago when it looked so cool in a Garrett Wade catalog. I use it once in a while when some piece of wood is giving me trouble and I go thru different planes to see what will work.
Great to see so many folks involved in scouting. It's a great program. Nothing in the world beats seeing 35,000 scouts march by on their way to an evening program at Jamboree. My son went to two of them at A.P.Hill and I get a bit choked up just thinking about that scene.
Indian ceremonies team on OA.
Those teams are awesome. I saw them perform several times in the old Blue Ridge District. It doesn't exist anymore as it got split in two and renamed. We were at the Governor's inauguration the other day and I hate to say this but the real Indians in the parade past the gov's stand didn't look as good as the OA teams I remember. See pix below. This is meant as a complement to the scouts not a putdown of the real thing. Perhaps I shouldn't have posted this.
Now that I'm looking at the pix, they do look pretty good.
Why should the people in the kitchen have all the fun
Glad the trip with the slab down the stairs was successful. Sure is a fine work surface.
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