Replies

1. 
   TomHintz | Sep 29, 2009 08:12pm | #1

   I have used Johnsons Paste Wax on furniture for years. It works great. but, like any wax, once you put it on, don't decide you want to put any other kind of finish on......

2. 
   Eef | Sep 29, 2009 09:31pm | #2

   humble newbie larry,

   once, as a not-so-newbie, i used paste wax as the first and only finish. do not do as i did. it is true that you're not going to be able to apply any other finish once wax has been laid down. wax, by itself, is not a durable finish.
   eef

1. 
   larry101 | Sep 29, 2009 09:43pm | #3

   Sorry - Should have been more specific.  I have already applied two coats of Watco danish oil.  I was think of topping it with wax but I read that all waxes are not created equally.

    

   Thanks for the response. 

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 29, 2009 11:11pm | #4

   Larry, what you may be remembering is problems with the original Briwax formula when  used on new finishes.  It has the solvent toluene in it, very rude to new finishes, great when cleaning up and waxing antiques.  Briwax has an alternative formula (called Briwax 2000, or something like that), which doesn't have toluene in it.

   It's not so much that the different waxes aren't created "equal" as them being created for somewhat different purposes.  For instance, some waxes have silicone in them, which is fine for some purposes, but you'd not want it on your table saw top, as it might rub off and interfere with your finishing of the wood you're cutting.

    

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

   Edited 9/29/2009 4:15 pm by forestgirl

1. 
   larry101 | Sep 29, 2009 11:39pm | #5

   Forestgirl

    

   Since I know that you reply to many of the finishing questions what do you think about two coats of watco danish oil and johnsons paste wax? 

    

   It is for a small cherry cabinet that will be in a corner or hallway.

    

   Thanks

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 30, 2009 01:18am | #6

   Finishing is not my strong suit, but I'd say if the cabinet is on the wall or otherwise not prone to heavy contact (bumps and bruises), that combination would be fine. It's a low protection finish, but appropriate for some uses, and one that I happen to like, especially on smaller pieces.

   Perhaps Steve will stop by and give his more experienced opinion....

    forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   forestgirl | Sep 30, 2009 07:26am | #11

   Heed John's (JWW) advice, I didn't think about the pores. 

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

   Edited 9/30/2009 12:28 am by forestgirl

2. 
   matt calnen | Oct 02, 2009 04:56am | #18

   I had a brief stint working for a furniture restorer/repairer/refinisher. Many times we were asked to refinish an old piece that the owner didn't want the color and patina of the old wood changed, but wanted to fix the scared up finish. These pieces usually had many coats of wax applied to them in there lifetime. We usually just washed the piece with a mild detergent, let dry and sprayed it with shellac. I point this out to all the people who think you can't apply a finish over wax. Shellac is a wonderful finish and can be aplied over most anything.

1. 
   Eef | Oct 02, 2009 11:30pm | #19

   matt,i have never used shellac. currently, on my off time, i am making a cabinet and am looking forward to finishing it with shellac as one of the components.
   eef

3. 
   JohnWW | Sep 30, 2009 01:32am | #7

   Larry,

   Don't do it.

   Wax is only meant to be used on a hard film building finish like shellac, varnish or lacquer. On those finishes it leaves a microscopically thin layer of wax that gives a gives a gloss and adds a minor amount of protection against wear and water.

   On your piece, with just an oil finish, the wax will simply penetrate into the grain in large amounts and only attract dirt and be impossible to remove or finish over. If you want to add a gloss or more protection you need to use a finish that builds up a film like the already mentioned shellacs, varnishes, or lacquers.

   John White
   Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
1. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 30, 2009 02:28am | #8

   John White

   Sir.. You are the expert but I will add my opinion.

   I use Danish and similar oils (varnish?) on all my work. I almost never use a Poly overcoat. I would certainly use lacquer if I had a place to do it properly. Back in my early days I painted MANY old cars (hot-rods). And good at it. I even thought it was 'fun work'.

   I have always used paste wax as the final, so called 'finish' on almost everything I have ever made. I have never had a problem refinishing any minor damage. I keep a list of the product used #oil# for each item. OK, just the big projects.

   I apply several applications of wax, Yes I know... I rub out each application until no wax seems to come off onto a clean cotton cloth. I use linen cloth for woods with 'open grain' like oak. In fact I usually apply the wax and rub out with the 3M Gray/Grey? pads. I clean and save the 'old' ones for the final rub-out with wax. Final work is a Lams Wool car buffer or by hand in parts the electric' buffer will on get into.

   For corners I have a 'gizmo' I make. A Fein MultiMaster sanding profile I glue some Lams wool onto.

   I find that some warm water with with a few drops of ammonia will remove any wax if it does not contain Silicone.

   To refinish, the old wax is NOT the problem. Matching the surrounding color/colour? IS very hard!

   And then again, I have no fault with your post or you. You give good advice that is accurate and easy to understand.

   Sorry, I'm just me? Several 'workings' of wax is like, 'smooth talk' to your future bride. The smooth talk improves over time and she finally listenes to you!

   Edited 9/29/2009 7:41 pm by WillGeorge

1. 
   JohnWW | Sep 30, 2009 03:29am | #9

   WillGeorge,Danish oils are a 50/50 mix, more or less, of varnish and a drying oil, plus a solvent that evaporates, so you are sealing the grain at least partially by using a Danish oil before applying a wax. If you are refinishing by applying more of the Danish oil you wouldn't have a problem since the solvents in the Danish oil mix would dissolve any wax left in the wood and just incorporate it into the finish. The problems with wax in the wood would show up when trying to apply other finishes or stains especially if they were water based.Penetrating finishes are very forgiving, so you can often use them in unconventional ways and still get a decent outcome. Still, there is little to recommend applying wax over an oil finish. It just isn't worth the risk of future problems and the wax wouldn't greatly improve either the appearance or the protection offered by the oil finish alone.John White
   Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007

1. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 30, 2009 03:44am | #10

   I read the message.. Still not sure. I can live with that...

   and the wax wouldn't greatly improve either the appearance or the protection offered by the oil finish alone. I for one think the apperance is much nicer.. I leave a new can of thr wax for them to use...

   Edited 9/29/2009 9:38 pm by WillGeorge

2. 
   Mackwood | Sep 30, 2009 06:13pm | #16

   "the smooth talk improves and she finally listens to you"

   You're a lucky man Will, after close to 30yrs. my BB still doesn't listen to me---maybe I need more wax!!  LOL

   Regards,

   Mack"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"

2. 
   larry101 | Sep 30, 2009 02:43pm | #12

   Thanks all. 

   I often compare woodworking to cooking in the sense that each chef has their own particular style and recipes.  This forum demonstrates that knowledgeable respectable craftsman can disagree on what is the proper technique for a particular woodworking task. 

   I am always amazed at the professionalism and experienced advice I can get with a couple of strokes on FWW.

    

   Thanks again. 

1. 
   Gretchen | Sep 30, 2009 03:14pm | #13

   I will only add that I would not put wax on just an oil type finish. It does have some varnish in it--maybe a third--but in my opinion needs a topcoat of a finsh if the piece is to get any kind of hard use.

   And wax is NOT an adequate finish for a final coat with nothing under it.Gretchen

1. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 03, 2009 08:24pm | #21

   Gretchen...

   but in my opinion needs a topcoat of a finsh if the piece is to get any kind of hard use.

   I agree but I mostly make things that sit someplace and hardly ever abused... Such as in a blanket chest or other that sits by the end of a bed..

   I REALLY have never had a problem with using wax... AS LONG as it is rubbed out well!

1. 
   Gretchen | Oct 04, 2009 03:04pm | #22

   I don't disagree if that is the only way your pieces are used. I have many blanket chests in many places of use in my home, and will occasionally put a glass on one. If it is wax, it would cause a ring.

   A wax only finish (on bare wood) is really good looking, until it is "hurt" perhaps into the wood, and not just a white ring.Gretchen

2. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 05, 2009 05:24pm | #23

   I agree with what you said. I have no comment except you are correct!

   I insist on glass wine costers for my table tops!...  Not many visitors here these days.

   I have custom fit shatter proof glass on mine. Not that expensive.. OK maybe expensive today.

3. 
   joinerswork | Sep 30, 2009 03:24pm | #14

   John,

   Gotta disagree with you on this one.

   Paste wax, if applied correctly-- in a thin film and buffed out, does not attract dirt in my experience.  Further it is readily removed with mineral spirits (paint thinner) or turpentine.  That is why it is widely used in furniture conservation.

   Ray

1. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 30, 2009 04:28pm | #15

   YES!

   And NOT offending John's post..

   But I agree Wax is NOT a hard finish.. Just easy to fix if problems arise.

2. 
   JohnWW | Oct 01, 2009 02:14pm | #17

   Yes it does form a thin, dry, easily removed film on sealed wood, but on raw wood, or wood that has just had oil applied to it, the wax can penetrate into fibers and fill pores leaving soft wax that will attract dirt and be difficult to remove, especially from pores.John White
   Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007

3. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 03, 2009 07:51pm | #20

   RAY somebody that sort of agrees with me.

   WAX is NOT a bad thing... Bad protection for heavy use I agree.