Replies

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jul 20, 2008 11:39am | #1

   My thought only.. I'm way off on alot of things.

   However, I purchase ALOT boards ('sticks') that many pass by.. NO.. I NEVER get any with a 'wind'..

   I hardly ever go to the jointer first.  OK, for most I do.. But some boards have really bad edges! ON EACH EDGE!

   I have a LONG jig/fixture? Whatever.. and a roller stand to support the wood as it comes off the TS.

   Clamp that board on it and RIP one edge as straight as possible without loosing to much stock. Then to the jointer for 'fixing' one face and then that edge I 'sort of got straight'..

    

2. 
   Lataxe | Jul 20, 2008 02:00pm | #2

   Paul,

   The usual rote is: plane one side of a board flat first then joint one or both edges at 90 degrees to the flattened face.  This is true for machine planing/jointing and I presume the traditional sequence for handplaning.....?  (I would do that, were I brave enough to flatten rough boards with nobbut a handplane).

   When machine planing/jointing, the flattening of one face then one edge on the jointer (we British call it the planer) would be followed by planing the other face flat and parallel to the first face using the planer (we British call it the thicknesser).  Finally you would joint the last edge with the planer (thicknesser) to end up with a square, flat and evenly-thick board.

   A handplane gives a better glue surface to an edge and also allows the introduction of that slight bow you mention, which ensures glued up boards don't separate easily at their ends should a little drying-out occur.  If you use a power jointer after the hand plane, on those edges, you will probaby worsen the surface for gluing and also take out that desirable slight bow.  Machine jointing followed by refining-of-edge with a hand plane is the better sequence of operations.

   Three such flat, square, evenly-thick boards would then be joined edge-to-edge to make the panel.  If you've got the planks evenly thick and square-edged, you should end up with a flat panel needing only a tiny bit of smoothing.

   If you just flatten/square the edges and leave the faces until after the glue-up, you will be having to flatten & smooth away a lot of wood with your hand planes to get the same effect.  Such panel smoothing is time-consuming and also provides you with more opportunity to tear out the wood should the grain across the joins run contrarily and the timber be one of those prone to tear out if planed agin' the grain.

   Biscuits to help alignment of planks being glued up into a panel can be helpful if the size or shape of the panel is awkward.  But they aren't necessary for strength - or even for alignment.  However, I like to use them myself in preference to cauls, c-clamps on the joints and other alignment techniques, as biscuits are much quicker to arrange and guarantee alignment (assuming a decent biscuit joiner and a proper technique in using it).

   Lataxe

3. 
   RMillard | Jul 20, 2008 04:50pm | #3

   Paul,

   I flatten the face, thickness plane, then straighten the edges. I'm kind of a stickler when it comes to stock preparation, so I have my boards very flat,(in all directions) before gluing up. Truing up the individual boards will require the removal of less material, than gluing them up and then truing them. 

   Other than a slight spring joint ( a tiny gap along the length of the edges to be glued) I don't want to have to force things into alignment; this only builds in unnecessary stress, which with creep prone PVA glues, can come back to haunt you. In general, the use of biscuits is unnecessary, as they add only nominal strength to the joint, and have enough slop, to make them of little help in alignment.

   It will help if you break the glue up into subsections. With most glues, which dry quickly, this adds little to the assembly time, and lets you easily line up the edges to reduce the planing required after the glue.

   Your handplaned edge will provide a prefect glue surface, so I'd just stay with them.

   Rob Millard

    

   http://www.americanfederalperiod.com

    

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jul 21, 2008 09:14pm | #8

   Your handplaned edge will provide a prefect glue surface, so I'd just stay with them

   Yes if you have a good one AND the skills to use it!

4. 
   joinerswork | Jul 20, 2008 07:06pm | #4

   pp,

   If you are needing to avoid losing any more thickness than necessary, you can do the glue up, then clean up the glue lines.  If the bowing isn't too severe, that is.  Alignment can be accomplished with three of four pairs of battens, clamped across the width of the glue-up, to hold them in alignment til you can get clamps across them, and the glue hardens.  Put some finsh, or a heavy coat of wax on the battens' surface that contacts the glue-up, so it doesn't stick fast to the glue lines. 

   As Rob says, a severe bow may be pulled out, but if the glue creeps, it may come back later, as the joints could develop a slight offset over time.

   If you have the thickness to re-surface the boards, doing so before glue-up will give you less heartburn in the long run.

   Ray 

1. 
   ppimenta | Jul 20, 2008 07:42pm | #5

   Thanks a lot everyone!I guess there's no avoiding it... I will straighten out that bow before gluing up.
   It's not too bad - say about a 1/32" hump in the middle over the 37" length.I've ruined so many boards trying to do this by hand, but that was before I learned how to sharpen and tune my (CHEAP!) planes from the guys at Tools For Working Wood in Brooklyn.
   Time to get back on the horse so to speak and clean it up.If I gouge it a bit, well then I guess that's the "rustic" look. LOL.Also thanks for the batten idea - I never thought of that.You know, I was going to alternate the growth rings, but since I'll be screwing a bunch of times into the underside from inside the cabinet, I don't have too much to worry about with bowing do I?Pics forthcoming when all is said and done.Peace,
   Paul

1. 
   dkellernc | Jul 21, 2008 04:50pm | #7

   Paul - Don't do it!  If you're off by only 1/32" in the center of your glued-up panel, there's more risk of making your boards too thin to be usable on a power jointer (or even hand-planing).  Not only that, but it's almost a guarantee that you will still have to do some surface flattening on the glued-up panel, in which case the combined operations (surfacing them first, gluing them up, surfacing the panel) may result in a piece that's too thin for your design.

   Far better in this case would be to take the time to build 4 panel clamps for your glue-up.  You can easily and quickly make these by squaring up (8) 3-foot lengths of 2"x2" square maple (or other hardwood of reasonable strength).  Buy 2, 6-foot lengths of threaded rod and 16 sets of nuts and washers at the local hardware store.  Cut the threaded rod into sections suitable for the clamps (I like 1 foot in length to allow the clamps to work on something up to 4" thick) with a hacksaw, use a triangular file to clean up the threads so that the nuts spin easily on them, and bore and counter-bore the cauls for the nuts and washers so that the bottom will sit flat on your bench.

   With this set-up, you'll never have to debate biscuit slots again, and the boards are virtually guaranteed to be lined up nicely when they come out of the panel clamps.

    

   Edited 7/21/2008 11:17 am ET by dkellernc

5. 
   BG | Jul 20, 2008 08:38pm | #6

   ppimenta,

   The fact that this top is to be sat upon makes for a tad more flexibility. Also, the fact that you can push it flat makes me wonder is the planer will really help.

   Regardless, a couple of mistakes I've made is to ignore the grain when jointing the boards. If you have riff sawn jointed to flat sawn you can have differences in thickness which appears like glue creap but is actually caused by the gain expansion. Secondly, fattening the boards to soon after glue-up, while there is still moisture from the glue affecting the thickness of the board, can cause seems to appear.

   I believe I've had better luck using my workbench with cleats and wedges, and cauls of needed, on these kind of glue-ups. I throw down a sheet of freezer paper and wedge everything into place. After two hours I remove the glue and set everything for about two weeks. Planing on the diagonal with a #5 flattens quickly.