I’m working on a cabinet with a central rectangular case and an angled side case on each end, angled from the front at 30 degrees.
While I have finally (…finally… FINALLY!!!!!) successfully joined (glued) the connecting face frames to themselves and to the cabinet(s), I struggled to do it with clamps without resorting to screws or nails.
I found that even with special cauls with matching 30 degree cutouts so that the clamp ran straight back to the un-angled back, the caul slipped relentlessly.
I also found that seamlessly gluing the angled side faceframe to the non-angled front faceframe was an exercise. They fit perfectly dry. But “Nanny, nanny, nanny!” with glue rapidly stiffening up on the joining faces.
Finally, with all that background, my question – how does one successfully join angled pieces that must look good at the face? Should I have just nailed the damn things together and filled the holes?
Mike D
Replies
dowels, mortis tenon, biscuts, .... the list goes on and on....
post a picture?
there is no easy way to do what your talking about. unless you have hidden screws, nails or some type of jointery in mind.
not sure if this helps but I recently purchased a Domino from fesstool and I'm loving it. easy to use and once glued unbelivably strong.
I'll try attaching an image from Sketchup. 1st attempt in jpg looks pretty raw, so I'll try bmp format instead.
Mike D
bmp did not attach, so jpg it is.
Edited 3/24/2008 4:11 pm ET by Mike_D
Grab an old bicycle innertube and cut it to shreds! Well, 1/2" strips, anyway... :D It can exert an amazing amount of force when it's stretched around the frame 10 or 20 times:
View Image
And the price is right! You can actually crush a corner if you keep overlapping the strap, so spread 'em out a little.
If the angles are close to 90 degrees, say 75 degrees at the least, I've also had good luck making some clamping blocks with a V-notch cut in them. I make the sides of the V a little convex so they avoid pressing against the stile's corner. The smaller the angle, the more these tend to "rock" to stile away from the outside shoulder of the rail.
HTH!
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/dev
How did you get your image to post on your message? I can make it attach, but not show on the post.
Mike D
Under the field where you type in the body of your post, you'll see two radio buttons. You have to switch from "WYSIWYG" to "Source". I usually type most of my post while in "WYSIWYG" mode, then I switch to "Source" mode and add in the pictures.
When you switch, you'll see the magic HTML tags embedded in your text. Things like <P> at the beginning of a paragraph, and </P> at the end of the paragraph, among others.
The tag for embedding an image is
Depending on your photo hosting site, they might have a doohickey for copying a tag to the clipboard. I go to photobucket, click the "Direct Link" doohickey under the desired image. Then I come back to my post and paste in the URL that photobucket put in the clipboard. You type this in your post:
Then paste between the double quotes. Switch back to "WYSIWYG" mode and your image should appear.
The other formatting widgets above the text box insert other kinds of tags... it can get a little messy in "Source" mode if you do a lot of formatting in "WYSIWYG" mode. Scary!
Good luck!
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/dev
Interesting. I find that I don't have a photo hosting site. What I have are files in My Documents, My Pictures, on my computer. Do you know of the way to use one of the jpg images that I have on my own hard drive?
Thanks,
Mike D
I really recommend using a photo hosting site. The accounts are free, and they usually resize photos to their maximum allowed size when you upload them. Too easy!
Also, you don't have the whole universe of internet users accessing your hard drive everytime someone wants to see a picture. And that's going to work only if you leave your computer on all the time, connected to the internet, and you set up a web server or buy some hosting services, and maybe get a domain name, and configure your firewall...
This goes downhill really fast. ;) Go for the free account. And grab a few bike innertubes with the money and time you save... :)---------------
/dev
ok, thanks!
Mike D
Mike,
There is another way to imbed pics into your post.
Compose your post/reply as you normally would. Then attach your pics via the usual method. Once you are complete, select Preview at the bottom of the text dialogue box and it'll show icons for the pics you previously attached.
Click on one of them and the picture will show on your screen. Right click on the picture and the drop down menu will appear and select Copy then click Back in your browser (Upper left hand corner) and it will return you to the Preview screen. Then select Revise at the bottom, place your cursor into the text where you want the pic to appear; then right click the mouse again and select Paste.
Sounds a lot more complicated than it really is.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hi Bob,
O.K., trying that.....
View Image
Well, THAT works. Thanks, Bob
Mike D
Edit: Looks like I need to attach a smaller file size, though.
Edited 3/25/2008 6:41 pm ET by Mike_D
O.K., Trying this again with a smaller image.....
View Image
This faceframe on the angled portion on the left is the bear that I was wrestling with. It just wanted to slide right off the case.
I attempted to locate it with biscuits, but as you can see, the angles make that kind of challenging - depths go haywire, face registration becomes problematical, etc.
I did finally get the thing glued in place without using fasteners, but I suspect that I probably should have used Norm's method - "Now I'll just take my brad nailer, and pow!, pow! pow!.....pow! That takes care of that." :) Boy, THAT would have been easier! And maybe I just made this too darn hard - perhaps brad nailing it to the cabinets is the right way to go. I just don't have enough experience yet to know.
But, I'm learning, and having fun.
Mike D
I sort of ignored the inner tube solution as "not applying to my very complicated and difficult case" (sigh).
Now that my brain cells have kicked in, I can see that this just might work!
Thanks,
Mike D
Mike ,
I use splined joints for this very type of thing .
I have made some clamp blocks that will not slip , I'll look for a picture of them , if I don't and you would like I'll post a shot of these blocks.
No pic on hand on the blocks , but here is an example of the look of joint .
dusty
Hi Dusty,
The spline idea might work for me. I tired using my biscuit joiner, but I found that making an accurate, angled biscuit joint across an angle other than 45 degrees is challenging, as there is no easy common reference point for both pieces.
Since I'll be making angled pieces again in the future, I will continue to research this.
Mike D
Mike , The splines help with alignment , but the special little clamp blocks are the real trick that gives you the ability to open or close the joint as you see fit.
Once you have cut the angles the blade is already on the correct angle for cutting the spline , just lower the blade and adjust the fence to center the spline cut . I use 1/8" or the size of the saw kerf .
I will take a photo of the clamp blocks and show them to you
dusty
Another option is a Multi-sided glue joint bits. Available at http://www.eagleamerica.com In the search box type 190-2865 It is a bit you will find most interesting. And Yes I do work there, but I only promote items I use or approve of.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Hi Bruce,
I see what you mean, but my problem is not to get the edges to mate properly - the real problem is that when using straight-line clamps, the face frame in the front of the angled cabinet wants to slide off to the side. Ditto the one in back.
I made a caul with a set of angled cutouts in order to seat the faces of the clamps squarely against the back and the caul, and the darn caul just slid "down" the slope.
I fixed that by screwing the caul to the back edge of the case, but I can't do that with the back frame as the front face frame is now in place. My solution is to block the caul's tendency to slide to the small end of the cabinet with a clamp on the small end panel. Not elegant, but works.
See why I'm beginning to think that brads/nails/screws are the real answer and to heck with the little holes. But with a clear finish on curly maple, it seems like a shame to mess up the design that way.
Mike D
Edit: Another solution may be to use a big band clamp around the entire cabinet with a couple of 2 x 4's acting as cauls for the stiles. That only leaves how to pressure on the rails. You know, bicycle inner tubes are looking better and better. And we haven't actually used our bicycles in nearly a year.....hummmm.
Edited 3/25/2008 9:24 pm ET by Mike_D
Edited 3/25/2008 9:24 pm ET by Mike_D
Mike , here is an answer for this application that can be used in different forms and such . I use my pipe clamps on the full size units.And you can cut the angle according to your needs . The blocks pictured are cut out for 22 1/2° such as your picture .
Sometimes I may not use a spline it gets a tad slippery but it can work easily if your an octopus . On some faces I glue and clamp the angles together before I glue them to the case .
dusty
Edited 3/25/2008 10:55 pm ET by oldusty
Well I have read all the posts on this thread and all are viable procedures. Ihave been down this road many times.
On these long grain to long grain miters I just make sure during dry fitting that the surfaces to be mated are true to each other.
Then I flip the over and butt up edges of long points on miters and apply strips plain old masking tape across the joint in about 2" increments the length of the miters, same if you were folding a mitered box with masking tape.Apply glue and carefully fold joint shut, next wrap strips of tape securlely around both pieces once again at approx two inch increments. Personally I did not think this would work the first time I tried it , As long as your edges are true it works fine . Also if needed You can apply a clamp here and there if needed. This is a Cherry and maple built in I installed yesterday all the vertical edges were done this way. Just my two cents worth.
Thomas Love
Edited 3/26/2008 10:41 am ET by gofigure57
Thomas and Dusty,
Both are great ideas! Thanks.
From both of your replies it would seem that gluing the face frames together before trying to put them on the case is the smart way to do this.
I will definitely try this next time.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, and thanks, Dusty for finding (or taking new) photographs of your jigs.
Mike D
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