Replies

1. 
   BG | Jul 28, 2002 02:58am | #1

   locking rabbit joint?....is that what you mean?

1. 
   morinbro | Aug 07, 2002 06:00am | #2

   BG - Thanks for your query. Yes it is a rabbit joint. I will be making a lot of drawers for storage and was looking for a simple, easily repeatable, sturdy method of building the carcasses.  I remembered a short article or side piece to another article that featured a table saw set up that allowed both the fronts and the sides to be cut in a single pass each without moving the blade or fence.  I've tried to work one out on paper but it looks like it will take more than a single setup.    The Nov '92 issue of Fine Homebuilding has a set up in "tips and techniques" that is similar to what I remember, using a 1/4" dado head set 1/4" high and a 1/4" shim against the fence (using 1/2" maple plywood).  I suscribe to Fine Woodworking, Homebuilding, Wooden Boat, and one other less remarkable journal, so the article I remember might be in any of them.  Thanks!

1. 
   dhpascoe | Aug 07, 2002 03:13pm | #3

   I often use rabbet joint drawers. Use epoxy glue for neat, strong corners, using brass brads for alignment during glue up. I especially like to use birch plywood with mica bottoms. I then varnish the birch before assemby and that gives a good, bright, easy clean interior to practical furniture and kitchen drawers.

   Dave

1. 
   fourquarter | Aug 09, 2002 01:48am | #4

   Can't remeber the issue number or find the mag at the time, but one such article ap[peared in FHB about 4 years ago. THe cover and main article are about building cabinets on-site. THere was a sidebar in that article that described a method for a simple tablesaw drawer joint.

   Essentially you start with 1/2" ply and starting with your drawer-box front set the fence so the outside of the blade is the width of your stock (1/2" minus blade thickness) and set the height at a little over 1/4". Cut all the fronts and backs of your boxes so that they have a narrow dado running from top to bottom.

   Now set up a sacraficial fence and dado and with the outside of the side facing down, cut a rabbet into each end of the side so that this fits snuggly into the dado.

   Cut a dado for your bottom in all pieces, being sure to have the inside of piece facing down, glue and add a couple of brads and you're done.

1. 
   mitch | Aug 09, 2002 05:14am | #5

   am i the only one who couldn't open the attachment?

2. 
   nhlett | Aug 10, 2002 01:13pm | #6

   Nope there is at least two of us.

   Peter

3. 
   theRev | Aug 23, 2002 02:39am | #9

   When I clicked on the attachment, it downloaded into my mac and then in opened up under photoshop. When I checked on the file, it was a jpeg. So, it would seem that it was just missing an extension in order to work. Here it is.

   Scott

   
4. 
   knarf | Aug 22, 2002 03:27pm | #8

   What file type is your drawer joint attachment in?

2. 
   oldlou | Aug 10, 2002 07:07pm | #7

   I have just what you need in front of me. I think that the joint is called a finger joint and I belive that the jig is from a Paul Levine article in either FHB or FW.

   The jig is a sled which rides in the two table saw groves using 5/8 x 3/16 strap iron guides attached to the bottom of the sled. The sled is made up of two pieces of 3/4" ply about 4x14 joined together along the length and reinforced with two triangular gussets of 3/4" ply at the ends. This assembly should now be 4"high, 4 3/4" deep and 14" wide. Attach another piece of 3/4" ply about 4 x 12 on top of the bottom in between the gussets(keep you screws towards the ends to prevent interference with future grove) Attach metal guides to the bottom of skid making one of them at least 12" long to improve alignment.

   Using a 1/4" dado set 1/2" high, the thickness of the draw sides, Slide the sled over the saw to cut a 1/4 x 1/2" grove through the jig base. Now comes the critical part, with the jig sitting upside down and the front vertical piece facing you, measure over from the right side of the grove exactly 1/4". At and to the right of  this line cut another grove 1/4" wide and 3/8" high about 1/3 of the way through the bottom of the skid. Into this second grove mount a piece of  1/4"x 3/8  hardwood such that about 3/4" of it extends in front of the skid. This piece is the keyway which is used to space each of the fingers. The spacing of the groves and the width of the key is critical. Any errors will multiply as you key one grove off of the last one cut.

   My jig worked great with 4" draw depths, at 8" or more assembly was a bit challenging, though as I think about it now, if you keep track of the direction that you make the joints in the sides you might be able to equalize the the errors. Things seem to be clearer after the sawdust settles. I used baltic birch and routed the assembled draw with a 1/4" roundover. Lastly, I found that after a bit of use the main grove seemed to wearout at the leading edge and caused an unacceptable amount of tearout. This can be solved buy covering the front of the skid with a piece of masonite and then cutting a grove through it. Have fun with this impressive looking joint.

1. 
   morinbro | Aug 23, 2002 07:07am | #10

   Thank you for your interest in my failing memory.  I never did find the article, but I figured out the joint I had in mind once I dragged the table saw out of its corner and began experimenting.  The results are as follows:

   Using 1/2" baltic birch  plywood

   1 - Set the blade 1 blade width off the fence and 1/2 the thickness of the plywood    deep.

   2 - Run the fronts, backs, and sides through flat.

   3 - Raise the blade exactly the thickness of the plywood and run the fronts and backs through on edge with the inside edge against the fence.

   This produced a very tight, clean joint. When assembled dry and tested to destruction, the thin plywood broke predictably. However, when glued up with the bottom in place, it produces a very stiff, stable drawer, at least in the size (15"x16") I made.

   Thanks again for all the suggestions!

   Edited 8/23/2002 12:09:10 AM ET by MORINBRO

1. 
   wanda20011 | Sep 10, 2002 02:32am | #11

   Hello,

   Since we're on the topic of making drawer fronts/backs...I tought I'd post my question here. I'm about to attempt to make new drawers for an old dresser.

   I was reading an article in one of my Popular woodworking mags all about how to build drawers. They described 2 methods. One using rabbits and dadoes and the other using dovetail joints.

   When building drawers they suggested that you measure the drawer opening and deduct 1/8 of an inch from that measurement. That way it gives you 1/16th of room all the way around the drawer front. Guess that's to give it room for expansion.  For the depth they said to  deduct 1 inch. What I'd like to know is WHY?  Would it make much of a difference if I didn't?

   When making dadoes on a table saw wouldn't I set my fence 1/2 inch including the width of the sawblade? I take it that means measuring from the fence to the outside cutting edge of the blade? I'm pretty sure that's what they said to do in the article I read.

   Are dadoes usually cut 1/3rd or 1/2 the thickness of the wood? Waht are the general guidlines when it comes to making these joints. The same for rabbit joints right?

   Wanda

1. 
   BG | Sep 10, 2002 03:15am | #12

   Wanda,

   I suspect the inch shorter on the depth is to accomodate the bottom plywood piece.  Many extend the drawer bottom to the back of the case to act as a stop...just a guess.  I do not know the article you speak of, but it appears your making the correct assumptions....since your draw sides are probably 1/2" going 1/4" depth on the back dado would be fine.  Good Luck

2. 
   SgianDubh | Sep 10, 2002 06:49am | #13

   Wanda, you said, "measure the drawer opening and deduct 1/8 of an inch from that measurement. That way it gives you 1/16th of room all the way around the drawer front. Guess that's to give it room for expansion." Hmm, thats generally a bit too sloppy for me. What happens if the drawer shrinks in the height? When using handmade dovetails--which suggests aiming for a 'high quality' I prefer a system where I cut the sides a little full, and then they are individually tapered with a handplane on the top edge from front to back so that  each side doesn't quite go all the way in. The drawer front is cut just a hair too big for the opening, then the top edge and two ends are bevelled towards the inside just a degree or so until the front almost goes home. After cutting the joints and assembly, the top edge of the sides and the drawer front, and the ends of the drawer front are 'shot' to fit with a hand plane. The drawer back is made about 1- 1.5 mm (1/32"- 1/16") less than the width of the opening. The whole procedure and the skill required gets very precise and pernickety at this level, and if you are at all unsure of your confidence, I'd stick with your 1/8" allowance to save yourself frustration.

   "For the depth they said to  deduct 1 inch. What I'd like to know is WHY?  Would it make much of a difference if I didn't?" Here, there is more than one reason, and the answer lies in traditional carcase and drawer work-- it applies much less so in modern style cabinetry and drawers of of man made board, etc.. If you have a deep carcase of a solid timber side panel where the grain runs vertically, the inch gap allows the panel to shrink in the width without causing the back of the cabinet to hit the back of the drawer thus preventing the drawer fully closing. Secondly, the gap leaves a little air space at the back of each drawer in a stack, and allows air compressed by the action of a closing drawer to escape somewhere-- this is also why the top edge of drawer backs in good work are set below the height of the sides-- to let compressed air escape. Similarly, in later traditional drawer work, bottoms were of solid timber with the grain running side to side in the drawer box, and hang beyond the back of the drawer. If they are fixed with slot screws into the underside of the back, the bottom needs a bit of space to expand and contract. 

   I'll leave it to someone else to answer your dado question-- I've said more than enough for one night, ha, ha. Slainte, RJ.  RJFurniture

1. 
   BG | Sep 10, 2002 01:18pm | #14

   Sgian,

   I noticed they used a similar technique for fitting the drawers on my bedroom furniture.  They also used a sliding dovetail joint on the bottom center to guide the draw.  Is that necessary? Better yet, what do you use to guide the draw?  Thanks, BG

2. 
   SgianDubh | Sep 10, 2002 06:04pm | #15

   BG, we have some furniture with drawers in that style. It’s an Ethan Allen bedroom suite from the 50’s or 60’s that my wife had as a child and later inherited. If you look around your example you’ll probably find a manufacturer’s name stamped on it somewhere. It’s a common method of drawer construction in mass produced furniture from that era (before the universality of metal drawer slides and other contemporary hardware solutions.) Carcases-- and their drawer openings-- were all made to within certain tolerances, and the drawer boxes were all made a loose fit, again within certain tolerances. To get acceptably tight spacing around the drawer front, the drawer front itself was cut wide and long. Machine cut dovetails were often used as the side to drawer front joint, but the machine was set to cut the sockets and pins at the end of the front overly deep, and a second machine removed the overlong pins. Add a central bottom mounted wooden runner of some sort, in your case an interlocking dovetailed affair, and the drawer box travelled reliably straight in its overlarge opening. Then all the worker had to do was trim each drawer front to acceptable tolerances.

   This kind of construction can be replicated in hand work, and is perfectly acceptable in the right circumstances, but today most workers will go for a proprietary metal drawer slide or two at the bottom rather than a home made interlocking wooden part. A traditional method, which is considered more sophisticated and in an elevated class is to go for a ‘piston’ fit. The cabinet sides are of a solid timber panel, and the drawers run on horizontally mounted frames or dividers known as runners and kickers—runners where the drawer bottom engages, and kickers above the drawer, therefore the horizontal dividers and frames can be both runners and kickers. The cabinet sides (and any intermediate dividers) and the bottom runner, and top kicker are the ‘cylinder’, and the drawer box is the ‘piston’ in my earlier mentioned ‘piston’ fit. All it requires to get the drawer to run freely is to make the carcass and its openings tolerably square, and the drawers a similarly tolerable matching fit. In cases of carcass construction using leg, rail and floating panel the inside face is not often a flat surface which the side of the drawer can run against—the back of the panel usually sits in from the inside face of the legs. Here the solution is to make a drawer guide of a square or oblong sectioned piece of timber that is attached to the runner between the front and back leg.

   I'll use all of the above, and much cheesier, all dependent on what the client is willing to pay. Slainte.RJFurniture

3. 
   wanda20011 | Sep 10, 2002 10:23pm | #16

   Hello Sgian,

   Thank you for your great advise. Think I'll just stick to basic drawer construction for now until I feel more adventuresome. Hey! the only drawers I've constructed were for my heavy duty workbench. Very basic box construction.  I'm waiting to make a zero clearance throat plate for my table saw so I can start practicing making dadoes and rabbits using my table saw. But at the moment I don't have anything to cut out the plywood troat plate. But hopefully by the end of the week the jigsaw I ordered will be in stock and I'll be able to start makine some drawers. all I need are a few sheets of birch plywood. I've got so much to learn about basic carcass constructionl. I better go and buy one of the Finewoodworking books on the subject. That sure is a hell of a lot of information to digest. My  brain is certainly getting a workout. LOL  I'll have to print off that post and read it over later. Sounds like you could rival Master carpenter Norm Abrahm, host of the Yankee Workshop. :)

4. 
   wanda20011 | Sep 10, 2002 10:42pm | #17

   Hi Sgian,

   here's Part 2

   Yes, I've noticed that the top edge of the drawer back was set below the height of the side on my old dresser. I just thought that was sloppy workmanship. LOL Well I know better now thanks to your post. The bottom of my dresser  is built from 1/2 inch solid wood with the grain running side to side in the drawer box. The bottom of the top drawer however is contructed from 3 laminated 1/2 inch pieces of birch. Guess the cabinet maker ran out of materials and had to use whatever was on hand.

   The drawers don't stretch all the way back to the back panel though. The back is constructed out of 3/4 inch solid birch strips running parellel with the drawer face.. (west /east orientation) (3/4 X 6 X 28") same length as the drawer fronts... They are connected to the sides of the dresser with moritse and tenon joints. The 2 side panels have wooden "cleats"/runners... I assume you'd refer to them as cleats.. nailed horizontally to the inside of each side panel. The drawers slide in over the dividing "rail"and are supported by the cleats. I think that's what you'd call it...the 3/4 inch by 1.5 inch stip of solid birch the runs between the 2 side panels. 

   By the above description  would you say that this dresser is over 50 years old?

   Wanda

5. 
   SgianDubh | Sep 10, 2002 11:52pm | #18

   Hard to say from your description, Wanda. I'd also look at the style, the construction, type of nails, screw heads, etc., and at the staining and/or polish, and assess the general condition of the piece to give me further clues. One or two things you can do if none of the previous helps you is look inside at the joints. What kind of glue squeezed out at corners, etc., that the worker didn't bother removing? If it's brown globs and glassy hard, and gets rubbery with warm water, it's almost certainly a version of hide glue which will generally (but not always) put you before about 1945- 1960. Secondly, look at the back of things like drawers, etc.. If there are pencilled notations indicating which drawer fits where, and so on, even if it's only a number, what's the writing style? Cabinetmakers born in the mid 1800's were taught to write in a different style to those born in the early 1900's, etc., and almost all cabinetmakers are, and have been numerate and literate, otherwise by definition they generally wouldn't have been cabinetmakers. (I've worked out that some large composite pieces are a very clever shotgun marriage partly because the 'wife' had notations written on hidden items in one hand and the 'husband'  was notated using a completely different hand, and a third handwriting style on parts incongruously machine planed gives away where the 'minister' conducted the marraige, ha, ha.) Unfortunately, there all sorts of other wee clues to give away the value, age of a piece, and the skill of the maker, that I can't look for without having the item in front of me. Slainte. RJFurniture