Hello All,
I am having a heck of a time getting my jointer set up correctly. I purchased a used Delta 37-195 6” jointer used. The first thing that I did was replace the blades with new ones from Infinity tools. I installed them using a metal Jointer Pal magnetic jig.
I built my first project (a king size bed) jointing boards that were around 8 foot in length. I had no problem jointing a flat face, and then jointing the edges to 90 degrees. I checked my work at the time with a reliable straight edge, and the boards glued up well.
The problems occurred after the jointer sat for 6 months unused. When I tried to edge joint boards that are around 3 feet long, I get bowed results. The board edges are convex, like a belly hanging down towards the jointer table.
I have reset the blades many times now. I purchased a Lee Valley Veritas Aluminum Straightedge to check the flatness of the tables. I found that the infeed and outfeed tables are both bowed downwards, as if a heavy weight had squished their centers down. The dip measures about .008 at is lowest point.
I have tried resetting the knives very carefully following detailed instructions both from Delta and Knots. I have tried raising and lowering the outfeed table very subtly. I am taking a bit less than a 1/32” cut. I have tried edge jointing on different sections of the blade. Nothing works.
Does the fact that both tables are bowed make the jointer unusable? I have no problem jointing very flat boards on their face, but cannot achieve a straight edge joint.
Any help would be appreciated.
Replies
I always set my knives with a straight edge so they are just a whisker higher than the outfeed table. If they are exactly flush, a little wear will keep them from working properly. The other thing that has an effect is the depth of cut. Less than 1/32" is going to cause problems, you need more meat, especially if the knives are flush. The hollow in the tables shouldn't be a problem.
I use the "move the ruler" trick, setting knives. A blade from a combo square, placed on the 8" mark, as the cutting head rotates, it moves the ruler exactly 1/8". A common set up in all the pro shops I've worked in.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
You say that the tables are "bowed." Is each table really bowed (not flat), or are the two tables simply not in the same plane (each still flat but tilted with respect to the other)?
If they're really bowed, then there's not much you can do short of having them reground.
If they're just tilted, then the remedy is to shim one or both so that they are back in the same plane. I don't know enough about the amount of discrepancy that you have or the details of your particular jointer to suggest whether or not you should try to shim the infeed table first, the outfeed table first, or both at the same time.
-Steve
Thanks for your help. Each table is in fact individually bowed. With a straight edge spanning the full length of both tables at once, and moving from left to right while facing the jointer;
The straight edge contacts the left edge of the outfeed table, is suspended by .008" in the center, and contacts the right edge of the outfeed table next to the cutterhead. The same is repeated on the infeed table.
When I use a light behind the straight edge, it is really clear that this is happening. I measured the gap with an automotive feeler gauge.
If I was to have the jointer reground, does anyone know of a place near Western Connecticut or the Hudson Valley in NY?Thanks,John
I checked my copy of John White's Care and Repair of Shop Machines, and found this:
...A gap [measured via feeler gauge] of up to 0.005 in. is acceptable on a mid-sized machine. Beyond that, you'll start having trouble getting really straight edges on the boards you joint. After checking along the front and back edges, place the master bar on the table diagonally. Here again the gap should only be a few thousandths of an inch.
...Having the tables remachined is possible, but it is likely to be very expensive. But warped cast iron can sometimes be shocked back into alignment. To do this, remove the table from the machine and prop it up between blocks on the floor, then stand on the casting and give a small jump. If you are lucky, it will straighten out. If not, try again with a slightly bigger jump. Be careful: Too much enthusiasm can crack the casting and you can twist an ankle. This technique works more often than you might suppose, and it is actually recommended by one manufacturer for straightening warped jointer fences.
-Steve
P.S. If you break your ankle, sue John White, not me. ;-)
The "shocking" treatment is recommended in the manual for my Canadian-Chinese jointer also, although not so elegantly expressed. Luckily I've never had to test my nerve by trying it.
Jim
Hello All,
Grizzly had a good sale on jointers for Christmas, so I took the opportunity to upgrade to an 8" 2HP jointer.
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I drove over to Muncy, PA (about 4 hours from CT) and picked this up. It has been a dream. I geuss I didn't want to put any more time into the Delta 6" with the warped tables. The new one produced flat boards right away. NIce!
John
Aw, what a cop-out. We wanted to find out what happened when you tried jumping on the tables. ;-)
-Steve
I did cop out : ( But it was a good excuse to get a bigger jointer. It was an adventure getting it down into my basement shop with steep steps. I have some helpful neighbors, so we moved it in with 3 guys total. My wife wanted to video tape me jumping on the jointer tables. Could have been a youtube moment.John
congrats on the new toy! I used kind of the same logic when they were backorder on those jointers and I chose to upgrade to the g609 12" becaues it was in stock. (heehee).Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Just wait, in 8 months, he'll be saying "I've got an 8" jointer with low spots in his tables and I can't joint a board straight".....;-)
Jeff,
That could very well be the case! Operator error can be a factor sometimes. I will stay away from the Swithwick' Ale before jointing.John
I have been watching this thread with interest, as I have recently purchased a 30-year-old Sprunger 6" jointer. I finally got it fired up this morning - I have done no adjustments to knives or tables yet- and it gave me a bowed edge-jointed board. I will set the knives properly, shim the tables, and try again.
My question is this: The cutterhead bearings, while running smoothly, do have a bit of a squeek. What should I lubricate them with?
Thanks.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
Most likely they are sealed bearings and don't require lubrication. Unless there are oil cups or grease fittings this would be a sealed bearing. If it has oilc ups and I don't recall the Sprunger;s I've seen to have them, 30 wt non detergent oil would be fine. If grease fittings, your standard automotive grease from the auto store is fine. Let them run a bit and the squeak might go away. It might take a few minutes to warm them up to get the grease flowing.
They are sealed bearings. Does that mean that there is nothing I can do, short of replacing them? Would some type of dry lube spray be ok?
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
If the bearings are sealed, it might not be the bearings themselves that are squeaking. Check around them and make sure they're clean and free of accumulated wood dust on the outsides; the bearing seals could be rubbing on the shafts to create the squeak. If that's the case, then a quick shot of a dry Teflon lubricant should shut them up.
If they still squeak after cleaning, then I think replacement is the only option.
-Steve
That is a dovetailed ways jointer If so shimming the outfeed table will most likely be all you need. You can buy a pack of brassassortd shim stock from http://www.use-enco.com. The reason for shimming the outfeed talbe is you don't move move it very often.
I work on machinery and have had a fair amount of jointers ground over the years. On a dovetailed ways machine you have to grind the entire jointer with the tables mounted to the base or it will be even further off. Typically most machine shops can't handle that. Larger specialty grinding shops would be the ones to try. Most likely they would be using Blanchard (circular pattern) grinders.
Rick,
Which way would I be shimming it if the outfeed table is bowed downward in it's center?Thanks,John
Shim at the top of the dovetailed ways will make the end of the table lower. Shimming at the bottom will rasie the end of the table. You only need a small pice of shim. Don't use paper as it compresses and if you don'r want to spend for the shim pack buy a cheap feeler gauge at the auto parts store. More than enough shims to do the job.
Edited 12/17/2007 1:06 pm ET by RickL
Try shimming both tables. Sounds like the tables "sagged" while sitting.
In case it's of use to you, here's the entry from my user's manual on the "shock" method posted by Steve.
"Straightening A Warped Fence
The fence furnished with your jointer is a finished casting. Under certain conditions it is possible that the fence may become warped. If fence is high (bowed) in the center, remove fence and place face up on the floor on two 4" pieces of wood (2" x 4" blocks will suffice). Gently apply pressure to the center of the fence with your foot increasing pressure gradually until you feel the fence "give" slightly. The fence should be perfectly straight. Repeat if necessary.
If fence is low in the center, place on the floor face down and repeat the above procedure -- REMEMBER, stop when you feel the fence "give".
Should your fence be twisted, the following steps will return it to its original shape. Clamp one end of fence to a wood vise and sandwich other end between two 2" boards, and gently "twist" the fence. When the fence "gives", stop applying pressure and check fence with a straight edge."
If you're going to be removing the beds to have them reground anyway, I'd give this a careful try first.
Good luck, Jim
Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I will give the bending procedure a shot.John
This bending technique will work on a fence but not on the tables.
Rick,
I have successfully "shocked" both tables on an 8" jointer into "true". I got the jointer free because part of one of the dovetail ways was busted on the outfeed side. Upon disassembly prior to repair, I found that the tables were out as well (low in the center). I laid four inch wide strips of 3/4" plywood on the concrete floor at each end of the table. I used a couple of layers of plywood inside the table to cushion blows from an 8 lb. sledge hammer (jumping was not working). It took a while but it did work and I got both tables VERY close to dead true.
I got the dovetail way repaired and I now have an 8" jointer (1970's Delta Rockwell) in which I have invested less than $275 including new bearings, segmented belt and two sets of knives.
I would NOT recommend this procedure with a jointer I already had money invested in as one errant whack would have busted the table but in theory it WILL WORK.
Regards
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
I've bent plenty of cast iron but haven't had the opportunity to try it on a jointer table. I'd prefer to do it in a more controlled condition such as a hydraulic press. Typically over bending will allow the metal to go back to half of what it was. With a press I could use an indicator to follow the process closer.
Clarence, regrinding isn't all that expensive. I had my planer table ground for $50 or so. You don't want to mill it - that's expensive. Anyhow, until your tables are flat, you won't get good results.
Before you start bending, twisting, or grinding on the jointer tables, check the possibility that that "bow" might be caused by uneven tightening of the tables bolts.
I have a 6" Delta jointer (37-030?) with cast aluminum tables. Each table is attached with 4 hex head machine screws. While giving it a cleaning and tuneup recently, I noticed that uneven tightening of the table bolts could introduce a slight amount of distortion (~.001") in the tables.
Before you start taking things apart and jumping on them or getting them ground or milled or whatever, have you tried another straightedge? I know the Lee Valley ones are supposed to be good. But it wouldn't hurt to put another one on it just in case you got one that isn't perfectly straight.
The fact that both of the tables seem to be off the same amount would make me a bit suspicious that the straightedge itself was possibly in error. One of the tables being off that amount I could buy. Both equally? More of a stretch. Could be wrong, but it wouldn't hurt to try something else - or measure the straightedge on something like a tablesaw table to see if it records the same amount of "dip."
The problems you're experiencing sound more like a knife adjustment problem, or a pressure-on-the-board problem than not-straight tables...
Zolton
* Some people say I have a problem because I drink hydraulic brake fluid. But I can stop any time I want.
Friends,
you guys wouldn't be having all these troubles with jointer beds if you just stuck with a good ol #7. You don need no fancy stones to sharpen it. Just use the sidewalk or a cinder block. :-)
Have a good day.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
You can flatten a jointer table on the sidewalk, too. Actually, it might be less work to heave a chunk of sidewalk onto the jointer table in situ. Bring the tool to the work, as they say.
-Steve
Steve,
"You can flatten a jointer table on the sidewalk, too. Actually, it might be less work to heave a chunk of sidewalk onto the jointer table in situ. Bring the tool to the work, as they say."We need more people like you around here. You are a holder of true wisdom! Who knows, maybe another Thomas Jefferson. MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
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